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Hey there!Iv'e heard great things on the internet on ROM hacks so I decided to check it out for one of my favorite games, SMW. Upon doing so I came across this site and I've been navigating for many hours but still haven't found what I'm looking for.

I'm searching for a list of the best SMW hacks that you guys have, but I haven't found one. I tried reasoning with your rating system but everything I've seen has a rating of 0.0.


click for full size

I've also encountered a few stray threads that mention a "featured" list of hacks that are presumably the best you have to offer, but I cannot find a link to this featured page. All I find is the legacy hacks but that is a huge list and based on the number of levels on the first few entries, I don't think its a featured list.


click for full size

So yea, any help is appreciated. Sorry if I broke any forum rules or posted in the wrong subforum. I'm just trying to figure things out. Thanks

Jack Edit: table stretch be gone~
First of all, I think it would be if you linked the pictures you've posted, rather than using img tags. They are making my screen stretch badly.

Anyway, ratings have never worked from what I remember and we removed featured hacks a long time ago, safe to say. We don't really have a list of "best" hacks anymore, so you'll just have to ask around what hacks people recommend.

- BlackMageMario
Ratings used to work just fine, they've all been removed though, in order to make it mandatory to couple a rating with a review, so that obvious downvoters/asskissers etc. can be cleaned up.

Also the featured hack stuff has been gone for a while as well, because the system kinda.. sucked.

They're both planned to come back at some point, but as of right now, sorry but no dice. Just go play stuff by Gamma V or FPI or something.


and why are you looking up your own name on bing
Your layout has been removed.
featured hacks are on their way back actually, though this time, instead of user voting, it will be a staff only decision whether a hack gets featured or not. For now, it's just that we haven't featured any hacks yet.
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Originally posted by JackTheSpades
instead of user voting, it will be a staff only decision whether a hack gets featured or not

Sorry but this sounds like a fucking terrible system. The staff don't represent the majority of the site, and as a result the Featured Hacks will just end up being biased based on what the staff like. I sincerely hope this doesn't end up being how the final system is handled. If it does it'll be an absolute joke.
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Originally posted by MVS
Originally posted by JackTheSpades
instead of user voting, it will be a staff only decision whether a hack gets featured or not

Sorry but this sounds like a fucking terrible system. The staff don't represent the majority of the site, and as a result the Featured Hacks will just end up being biased based on what the staff like. I sincerely hope this doesn't end up being how the final system is handled. If it does it'll be an absolute joke.

I agree it really should be at least user driven in some degree. It needs to accurately demonstrate that this type of hack is a good role model for others to follow. While the staff should be able to have a part of this, ultimately it should be decided upon a majority site influence.

Regardless of what SMWC chooses, there will be pros or cons to the system. I hope whatever it is will be good and allow it to be most accurate of representing what we have to offer.

I was thinking some time ago about having hack reviewers giving their opinion on whether the hack deserves to be featured (in the review threads) and the hack moderators taking that into account. I am not really sure about that now.

Also in the future, only full length hacks will be featured, not demos (read towards the bottom of the post).
Originally posted by Superderek
Originally posted by MVS
Originally posted by JackTheSpades
instead of user voting, it will be a staff only decision whether a hack gets featured or not

Sorry but this sounds like a fucking terrible system. The staff don't represent the majority of the site, and as a result the Featured Hacks will just end up being biased based on what the staff like. I sincerely hope this doesn't end up being how the final system is handled. If it does it'll be an absolute joke.

I agree it really should be at least user driven in some degree. It needs to accurately demonstrate that this type of hack is a good role model for others to follow. While the staff should be able to have a part of this, ultimately it should be decided upon a majority site influence.

Regardless of what SMWC chooses, there will be pros or cons to the system. I hope whatever it is will be good and allow it to be most accurate of representing what we have to offer.



Except every hack made by somebody with friends gets featured under a community system. Just look at the massive number of hacks that were featured under the old system. A featured hack should be a rare commodity representing hacks which have done something above to make it stick out to the people who play virtually every hack on the site. At first letting hack moderators make the final decision on featured hacks doesn't make sense, but with volume of hacks that they moderate its not too hard to know when one has that extra touch of magic. We have increased user interaction in the moderation process to curve hack acceptance closer to community standards, we do believe in fairness and community involvement. But the reality of the world is community involvement is not always the most appropriate action.

Also, MVS and SuperDerek you both maintain zero points -- you don't even participate in our community reviewing as is, so why are you so concerned over community featuring? Nothing wrong with not participating of course, it's not everybody's desire to review hacks. But if you aren't willing to review hacks why would you be more willing provide an (ideally) non-bias input on featured hacks?
Originally posted by p4plus2
Also, MVS and SuperDerek you both maintain zero points -- you don't even participate in our community reviewing as is, so why are you so concerned over community featuring? Nothing wrong with not participating of course, it's not everybody's desire to review hacks. But if you aren't willing to review hacks why would you be more willing provide an (ideally) non-bias input on featured hacks?

To keep it short, moderators enforcing their opinions on good hack design as rules in the first place is why I don't have anything to do with hacking anymore. All this system will do is promote hacks that fit the moderator's personal preference, which just makes the issue of preferences being regarded as rules even larger.
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Originally posted by MVS
To keep it short, moderators enforcing their opinions on good hack design as rules in the first place is why I don't have anything to do with hacking anymore.


Yeah, that user-based voting system we introduced eight months ago is totally based on the moderators' opinions and not at all the userbase's.

Oh wait.

e: also, we haven't even finalized how featuring hacks will work, so calm down.

Extras



I should have something witty to put here (even if it's just to update dated info), shouldn't I?

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Originally posted by MVS
Originally posted by p4plus2
Also, MVS and SuperDerek you both maintain zero points -- you don't even participate in our community reviewing as is, so why are you so concerned over community featuring? Nothing wrong with not participating of course, it's not everybody's desire to review hacks. But if you aren't willing to review hacks why would you be more willing provide an (ideally) non-bias input on featured hacks?

To keep it short, moderators enforcing their opinions on good hack design as rules in the first place is why I don't have anything to do with hacking anymore. All this system will do is promote hacks that fit the moderator's personal preference, which just makes the issue of preferences being regarded as rules even larger.


You mean the same system that was put in place at the top of the year that allowed regular members to have more of an effect on what gets accepted/rejected to the Hacks section?

You mean the old system that allowed regular members to get a few of their friends to basically pick a hack to just waltz into the Featured section?

No matter how you try to slice it, 20-30% of hacks obtaining "Featured" status is way too many.

Oh, and Hack Mods tend to have a better understanding to quality than any ol' regular member.

I'm conflicted right now. Hack moderators don't have to know what they're talking about anymore to "moderate" a hack since the userbase has most of the input. Because of this I'm not sure whether moderators should actually choose whether a hack will be featured or not. On the other hand, we don't have a full democracy on hack moderation since not everyone actually chooses whether a hack gets accepted or not. This could cause bias with friends who suddenly would vote for a hack.

Perhaps a solution would be to have a hack moderator choose whether a hack should be featured, and have the community decide whether that hack moderator is right or not. This would probably need some kind of balancing too, but I think this would be a good way to do it.
Something as simple as a nomination thread and then moving hacks nominated by x people to a "public reviewing/oppinions" system sounds really good to me. I mean, this system would be ran by humans and not by a machine, so it should be entirely flexible. The hack moderators do have the brains to recognise that a user with 5-ish posts nominating a hack out of nowhere is highly possibly biased, and a user who doesn't often play hacks also nominating a hack and sounding like they didn't get past world 1 could be biased, too.

Also, as long as we don't view "nominating" as one-line posts saying that a hack is awesome and it should be featured, but rather as a few paragraphs stating valid points and trying to persuade the hack moderators to agree with them, I don't think it'd turn out as a bad system at all.
It's easily the best thing I've done
So why the empty numb?
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Originally posted by p4plus2
Also, MVS and SuperDerek you both maintain zero points -- you don't even participate in our community reviewing as is, so why are you so concerned over community featuring? Nothing wrong with not participating of course, it's not everybody's desire to review hacks. But if you aren't willing to review hacks why would you be more willing provide an (ideally) non-bias input on featured hacks?

Just because I am not able to look over hacks doesn't mean I don't have the right to comment on a possibly faulty idea in a community I am a part of. I actually care, even if I don't have the time. To say I am not willing is wrong. You try living in my shoes before stating I am not willing. I am just concerned with the direction our community is going in.


You also missed my point entirely. You had a system that can be abused, sure. But a community system with ratings or viewing wasn't what I am talking about. I am talking about something that no one and their friends can be a majority factor in. Unless this person like friended the entire site. And let's not forget that what if this guy friended half the staff? Then your fancy idea is back to zero in regards to friends influencing featured hacks. Basing your argument on a flawed system and stating that there is no way to make a community decision possible is quite honestly disappointing to see. You'd think a staff member would try to have more faith and work on a better system that cannot be abused as easily.

Regardless, the way I see it featured hacks are typically or was in the past a popularity contest. And really, what I imagine is something that popularity has nothing to do with but rather something unique. Something that, again, tells everyone that this hack has something very special that the hundreds of others don't possibly explore.



I do play hacks, by the way. I just could never play them in the time this site's discussions close. So unless you actually give a waiting time of 2 weeks, I won't ever be able to participate in my current time schedule. I cannot play one in one setting nowadays.

The post of jc is the proof that the rating column needs to be out of this site until ist is implemented. New users will be confused(I was confused).


Speaking of feature hacks, I strongly don't su0pport that SMWC host any Demo in the "SMW hacks" section.

But there is a place for promotion. There could be a WIP place.

Looking at the WIP forum of SMW, it shows a full list of the hack thread(Only the topic), nothing more.

How about a section somewhere on the site like the ropebox of the C3, but less noticeable, but still there?
Like just under the "Latest hack", there could have:



Random WIP:
Super Mario 2D World
[2 screenshot]
and one or two lines that the author select.


(Of course, the demo would be random)

That would help hack creator to have some attention to his hack.


Speaking of, I think the Most downloaded could drop his place on the site, I don't think it'S THAT useful...


Just so we're clear, I by no means think the old hack featuring system was perfect, but it was by no means the only option available for a featuring system.

The moderators are there to do just that, moderate submissions to make sure they meet standards, but ultimately, the SMWC userbase should be the one setting the benchmark for those standards, and deciding what the standard is. The entire point of a forum is that it's user driven. So why restrict the ability for users to drive the content in a certain direction?
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>this thread



Quote
To say I am not willing is wrong. You try living in my shoes before stating I am not willing. I am just concerned with the direction our community is going in.
Stop making this more personal and emotional than it needs to be. Clear your head, and then let's negotiate.

About the friendship bias concern, we don't instantly approve of someone's lower quality content over someone else's higher quality content just because they're our friends. That is not how this site works and I will not allow that to be how the hacks section is run. I know who is friends with who in the hack moderator world. We judge the content by the content, not by the author. The only exception made in this site's history, where a hack had been intentionally removed by a legitimate staff member because of the author (and not by request,) was Notte Luminosa, which was a high-profile incident and some felt damage control was necessary to protect the image of the site. Other than that, SMW Central will continue to approach content submitted by their original authors without bias.

The hack discussions rarely ever close but the decision is generally made quickly because reviews come in quickly for short hacks and it's not a high amount of people because not a lot of users are interested. There's nothing stopping you from reviewing and earning points and proving yourself as a critic after a hack has been accepted. In fact, I WANT to see more reviewers, and I want to add even more incentives for people to review because the badges just aren't giving people enough motivation. Demonstrate your will, if you surely do have it.

Furthermore, the hacks submitted for C3 will all be going up for review this week, and those hacks have been sitting there for a while so if you want to, then there is/was your chance to take an active part in choosing their destiny.

Oh, and one more thing, Superderek:
Quote
e: also, we haven't even finalized how featuring hacks will work


Originally posted by MVS
The entire point of a forum is that it's user driven. So why restrict the ability for users to drive the content in a certain direction?
You may drive the direction of the board any way you choose by creating threads and posts, and high volumes of threads of a specific genre may warrant the spawning of a new forum to house that collection of topics. The forum is not the entire website, just an area for communication as one section of the site. The hack archive is not a forum, thus you are creating a strawman argument.

Originally posted by Torchkas
Hack moderators don't have to know what they're talking about anymore to "moderate" a hack since the userbase has most of the input. Because of this I'm not sure whether moderators should actually choose whether a hack will be featured or not.
If you can point out any tangible instance of a hack moderator under the current system who blatantly is giving false advice or uneducated opinions (meaning not things you disagree with, but things that cannot be drawn from the hack) then I'll be happy to deal with them. If available, I'll play the hack to verify the claims (if not, you may need to provide the patch. I require all moderators to rehost any patch for a hack they review so that they don't end up lost.)

Quote
Perhaps a solution would be to have a hack moderator choose whether a hack should be featured, and have the community decide whether that hack moderator is right or not. This would probably need some kind of balancing too, but I think this would be a good way to do it.
Thank you for actually contributing a solid idea rather than one long moan. This will be considered. Another idea on the table is giving people with a minimum score (yet to be determined) the right to nominate a hack for featured status, and a moderator would check it out and either approve or veto it. It's kind of the reverse order of what you suggested, but if we could all focus on ideas from here on out rather than whine about how women pee sitting down, this would be perfect for getting things done.

Originally posted by Koopster
Something as simple as a nomination thread and then moving hacks nominated by x people to a "public reviewing/oppinions" system sounds really good to me. I mean, this system would be ran by humans and not by a machine, so it should be entirely flexible. The hack moderators do have the brains to recognise that a user with 5-ish posts nominating a hack out of nowhere is highly possibly biased, and a user who doesn't often play hacks also nominating a hack and sounding like they didn't get past world 1 could be biased, too.
It may not be the road we take but I'll pitch it to the staff forum. If this idea is pursued, we'd be adding a Featured Hacks Nomination subforum to the Hack Moderations and Reviews. The thread for nomination would be stickied as an Important, and the rest would work like the parent forum.

Originally posted by niamek
Speaking of feature hacks, I strongly don't support that SMWC host any Demo in the "SMW hacks" section.
We have an approximately 1:1 ratio of demo-to-full hacks. I feel this is far too many demos. I have declared, and this is the one thing set in stone that I will not budge on, that while we will continue to approve demos, we will not award any demos with featured status nor accept any nominations for demos to be featured, but we will also not set a limit on how long or short your hack is required to be so long as it is a finished product. This is because historically, featured status was really sought-after, and people worked hard for it until they got it. The result is a lot of unfinished product with a lot of dissatisfied gamers or enthusiastic followers who eagerly anticipate that which will never be.

As a compromise to taking away demos' eligibility for featured hack status, I propose a WIP of the Month program where someone's lucky hack-in-progress gets a front-page spotlight, which will hopefully channel a lot of traffic and constructive criticism to their thread, and I'll let people flood my PM box with all the amazing hacks they see in development. If you guys like this, I'll make it happen. I'll make it happen as soon as August.

Whatever we can do to restore commitment people have to their hacks and seeing them to the end, I'm open to hearing.

Just look above you...
If it's something that can be stopped, then just try to stop it!
Originally posted by Counterfeit
Originally posted by MVS
The entire point of a forum is that it's user driven. So why restrict the ability for users to drive the content in a certain direction?
You may drive the direction of the board any way you choose by creating threads and posts, and high volumes of threads of a specific genre may warrant the spawning of a new forum to house that collection of topics. The forum is not the entire website, just an area for communication as one section of the site. The hack archive is not a forum, thus you are creating a strawman argument.

It's still the same principle. The hack section, and heck, every other hacking resource on this site user driven.
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Originally posted by MVS
Originally posted by Counterfeit
Originally posted by MVS
The entire point of a forum is that it's user driven. So why restrict the ability for users to drive the content in a certain direction?
You may drive the direction of the board any way you choose by creating threads and posts, and high volumes of threads of a specific genre may warrant the spawning of a new forum to house that collection of topics. The forum is not the entire website, just an area for communication as one section of the site. The hack archive is not a forum, thus you are creating a strawman argument.

It's still the same principle. The hack section, and heck, every other hacking resource on this site user driven.
And still, you refuse to provide actual input on what should be done and disregard the rest of the post. You don't even back or critique the other suggested ideas which, surprise, do exactly what you want - involve users in decision-making, so you're not helping your cause. If you're incapable of doing that, please leave the thread.

Just look above you...
If it's something that can be stopped, then just try to stop it!
Originally posted by Counterfeit
If you can point out any tangible instance of a hack moderator under the current system who blatantly is giving false advice or uneducated opinions (meaning not things you disagree with, but things that cannot be drawn from the hack) then I'll be happy to deal with them. If available, I'll play the hack to verify the claims (if not, you may need to provide the patch. I require all moderators to rehost any patch for a hack they review so that they don't end up lost.)

I just want to say that my point of "they don't have to know what they're talking about" was hypothetical. They in fact do not have to be masters at what they're doing anymore, but I didn't mean to put it in a way of "hack moderators suck now", which seems to be the way you interpreted it. Sorry for the confusion.

Putting the featured hack problem aside. Is there any clearance on how soon the rating system will work again? It might be a kind of trivial thing, but it also seems like something that wouldn't be too hard to implement.
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