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Do you actually enjoy aquatic levels?

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I personally enjoy Red Aquatic levels as they are usually vast and have very nicely hidden secret exits.

There are some cave type levels that have calm waters you can swim in that I like. Claustrophobic cave levels are my favorites since they allow you to use the lows ceilings to your advantage when hitting critters. Adding some puddles and water passages here are ok for a change of pace.

What I dislike is flooded and ghost ship levels with tide. They force you back usually and there are sections where you have to wait for it to rise or wait for the ghosts to disappear before you can proceed. I find these a chore to complete. Also, there is usually a porcupine fish or some urchins that WILL damage you at one point because the tide is so damn slow.

Opinions?
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Anyway, I don't really enjoy on water levels (especially on making one) because of how slow you'd have to maneuver on the whole level ... not to mention the big enemies that is sometimes hard to avoid.
I dislike water levels because in my opinion, they're just too boring and slow-paced. I never found them too hard or whatever like some people say they are, but I still don't really like them.
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Most people dislike underwater levels because they are too boring and slow-paced. If the level is done right, it'd turn out to be fair enough to play and more enjoyable, and the same thing can be said to tide levels, especially those in which it rises up and down.
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I think SMW's water levels are very boring in terms of gameplay. The only way with the original physics to make them interesting is to either give them good visuals, or to introduce some kind of gimmick that doesn't really make them a water level.
I'd say the best way to go is to introduce some kind of powerup that makes swimming faster paced. Think the penguin in NSMB.
Originally posted by Katerpie
Most people dislike underwater levels because they are too boring and slow-paced. If the level is done right, it'd turn out to be fair enough to play and more enjoyable, and the same thing can be said to tide levels, especially those in which it rises up and down.


Fair point, but most of the water levels I've played seem boring. I can't think of any fun water levels off the top of my head.

Also, I kind of like "tide" levels personally.
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The reason nobody likes water levels is because the water physics in SMW are horrible and because of that nobody is able to make them fun. Hence why everyone straight up avoids making them.
This hack has one underwater level I actually found enjoyable and fun (W3).
I know everybody's gonna disagree with me, but I enjoyed the water level "attention to detail" in hacks 101. I know alot of people didn't like it tho with the background distracting you from the game, but I think it was a creative twist
i honestly don't dislike aquatic levels, but i don't enjoy playing them either. like Katerpie said, it depends on the hack itself: if the water level seems to have good aesthetics with a very fun gimmick, then i may enjoy the level. sometimes, i tend to find a p-switch, key, or shells in the level just to make the level finish faster. but to be honest, the original super mario world's water levels weren't too awesome, at least in my opinion. aquatic levels in hacks and in future games seem more fun to play for me.
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I hate em all, that's why I don't make water levels, they are extremely boring and slow in my opinion.

Originally posted by SuperAgentYoshi
I know everybody's gonna disagree with me, but I enjoyed the water level "attention to detail" in hacks 101. I know alot of people didn't like it tho with the background distracting you from the game, but I think it was a creative twist


Not at all, that level was great in my opinion.
I hate playing water levels because they're so boring and slow-paced.
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In the minority here but I actually enjoy water levels. Most of the time the atmosphere looks really cool and they are fun to explore. I however don't enjoy designing them that much as I find them kind of hard to design. But yeah being that I don't move all to fast when playing levels to begin with I don't mind the slow pace that water levels have. I'd at least prefer playing water levels over ghost house or puzzle levels.
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The "water" world in my hack had 0 fully aquatic levels. Just a few sublevels with the water flag on. Most used tides/etc.


Water physics are, as most people here have said, kinda bad in SMW. 'Tis one of the weaknesses of the game.
No, I fucking hate them.

No way. I hate all of them.

Kind of. Depends on what game we are talking about.

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No because the vast majority of them I've played are boring as hell.

Originally posted by Torchkas
I'd say the best way to go is to introduce some kind of powerup that makes swimming faster paced. Think the penguin in NSMB.


This makes me wish that MarioE finished/posted his Shall power-up. There's the Frog/Water Suit in PowerTool, but PowerTool itself is very buggy and conflicts with a lot of other things.

People have tendencies to either make water levels too spacious or too cramped and I think that's what damages the aquatic levels more than the technical implications of aquatic levels. Most levels are designed in "air" and not "water" so it's far less experimented with and thus most hackers are inexperienced with underwater levels.

I played a hack today that tried to recreate the SMB1-style underwater level, but it did not work because there was no ceiling to the level and you could skip the entire thing: now, playing it normally would yield a much better experience.

I played another hack about a week or two ago where there was a very spacious underwater castle with almost no enemies and no sense of direction other than "keep going right and you'll eventually find something" ...well, I had to look hard to find a p-switch to enter a pipe. It wasn't very pleasant since the level's design didn't offer any direction.

The freedom of movement really opens up the level to vast amounts of exploration, and the difference in physics makes it a huge change of style. Items can speed things along and be used to access other parts. A lot of what works underwater doesn't work in the air and vice-versa.

I think 3D games get underwater levels a lot better but the richer atmosphere must have a lot to do with it... SM64's water levels (Dire Dire Docks, Jolly Roger Bay) were so soothing to play.

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Not usually. I like some, but the majority of them are ruined by bad controls, an air meter, or both. About the only underwater levels I liked were the ones in the SNES Donkey Kong Country games, which controlled pretty decently and generally had just the right mix of being spacious and open. On the other hand, I never cared much for SMW's underwater levels (partly because of Rip Van Fish), SMB3's and SMB1's weren't a lot better, and then they somehow actually managed to make the swimming physics worse in the New Super Mario Bros. games, except when using the penguin suit. Then we have monstrosities like Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze's underwater levels, which certainly look pretty but are a nightmare to play for both of the reasons I listed, and most underwater levels in 3D games I've found outright terrible. They weren't bad in Super Mario 3D Land and World and I guess they were passable in the Spyro games, but Super Mario 64, Super Mario Galaxy, and Banjo-Kazooie...well, in SM64's case, I got to Jolly Roger Bay, swam around lost for a while, finally found where I was supposed to go, got hit by an enemy and lost enough power that it was impossible to get to air before dying, ran out of air and died, and decided to skip the level entirely. A similar thing happened with Buoy Base Galaxy. Air meters freaking suck, and they suck even more in 3D games. There is a good reason why Crash Bandicoot's water levels are all sidescrolling (and even then, they aren't that great).

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I dislike most water levels as they are too empty or they don't have a good gimmick to start with. That's why I rarely make water levels or just some with layer 3 tides or with a bit of layer 1/2 water. There were a few water level I enjoyed. Some are also fine until they don't focus on waiting or unfair difficulty. SMW's physics are fine for me and water physics aren't bad, but a bit slow. Yes - NSMB's physics were horrible (the Wii version had better ones), SMB and SMB3 had slightly worse than SMW. Not only controls ruin water levels - bad gimmicks, waiting and cramped areas make levels boring or annoying. Also, puzzles and mazes in water are a bad idea.
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