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| Savestating and Rewinding |
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Forum Index - Hobbies - Gaming - Savestating and Rewinding |
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| Posted on 2010-08-31 08:33:01 AM |
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These are terrible features in my opinion. These actually decrease the true quality of gameplay as it is nothing but cheating. It's auto-invincibility. And I'm pretty sure the majority of SNES emulator users have used one of these features at one point or another, and it's quite addicting. However when it comes to playing hacks, you're really ripping yourself off and the creator of the hack. You aren't experiencing the game as if it were a real snes game, and you aren't appreciating the hard work the creator put into making it.
If it were up to me, ALL features that allow such cheating would be removed from emulators.
I hate this especially when I'm watching someone LP a hack, in a video or live streaming. It disgusts me and makes me totally lose interest in watching.
Discuss.
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| Posted on 2010-08-31 12:03:51 PM |
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Well, I agree to some extent with that statement about save-states. It does indeed ruin the true quality of hacks and in a way it is cheating.
But that doesn't mean that they're terrible features. There are some users who find some hacks ridiculously hard and can't even progress through the hack without using save-states. There were some levels that were almost impossible for me in TSRPR and TSRP2, and hell even with savestates it took me a while to actually progress through them. Without save-states I probably wouldn't have been able to complete the game (I suck at hard games btw and I found TSRPR and TSRP2 really hard) and probably would have quit playing it out of frustration. Also, there are some people who don't use save-states to cheat, I find them very useful when I make ASM hacks and stuff (because when I need to test a sprite/patch/block, instead of loading the ROM again and again and waiting for the intro to finish etc. I could just use a savestate right at the level to save time). Sometimes I use them when I don't want to read cutscenes again, like in SMW2+3 because they were pretty lengthy. And I use them sometimes in auto-scrolling areas in SMW hacks too because it's just so annoying when you have to repeat them again and again.
About rewinding, I've never used it but that feature probably sucks. In what way is it even helpful other than allowing you to cheat in a hack?
You are right about them allowing users to cheat with save-states too though, it makes the game less fun. But I'd rather prefer emulators having save-states and fast-forwarding because it makes things so much more convenient for me.
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| Posted on 2010-08-31 12:40:02 PM |
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I disagree. It's nice to have the options for the some games which are just too hard to be even remotely fair, and just for the option. I mean, I know people here don't like Kaizo games, but for those that do, these features are a God send. Indeed, they shouldn't arguably be required, but I'd say they help offset bad level design and general bad design, by giving you a chance if the hack creator requires some stupid leap of faith or trial and error.
The whole 'not appreciating the hard work the creator put into it' bit is kinda stupid though. How is being stuck at an early level due to bad design appreciating something more than experiencing the whole game? They make amateur content actually playable in that way.
Plus, keep in mind, I'd disagree they hurt people who video hacks. I mean, would you really want to watch them play the whole badly designed, extremely hard section fifty times? It's not fun to watch the same thing over and over.
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| Posted on 2010-09-02 10:16:36 AM |
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Originally posted by bricThese are terrible features in my opinion. These actually decrease the true quality of gameplay as it is nothing but cheating. It's auto-invincibility. And I'm pretty sure the majority of SNES emulator users have used one of these features at one point or another, and it's quite addicting. However when it comes to playing hacks, you're really ripping yourself off and the creator of the hack. You aren't experiencing the game as if it were a real snes game, and you aren't appreciating the hard work the creator put into making it.
If it were up to me, ALL features that allow such cheating would be removed from emulators.
I hate this especially when I'm watching someone LP a hack, in a video or live streaming. It disgusts me and makes me totally lose interest in watching.
Discuss.
What If Its In A Kazio Hack! And I Dont Think Its Cheating I Actualy Like Savestated Reviews!
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| Posted on 2010-09-02 12:18:07 PM |
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Only one word:
No.
That's the best thing you can find in an emulator
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| Posted on 2010-09-02 05:52:10 PM |
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I try to avoid using savestates, because if I do use them I'm not enjoying the hack/game at all. Savestates and rewinds are a last-resort option for me. If I die or something doesn't go my way, then tough luck.
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| Posted on 2010-09-04 09:51:27 AM |
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Originally posted by NeutronOnly one word:
No.
That's the best thing you can find in an emulator
this. no one's forcing you to use them, and you can avoid having to keep redoing the same thing if you die thanks to them. and when you watch a LP, do you really prefer to see the same stuff again and again ?
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| Posted on 2010-09-04 10:58:57 AM |
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Undoing mistakes and bookmarking states are invaluable tools when testing hacks, and when playing Kaizo SMW hacks, that's what the game is to me! Just doing the same thing over and over until it's perfect.
When playing a games and hacks regualrily, however, I agree that time-control puts the experience in danger of being ruined. Sometimes I'll save a state now and again, in case of crashes, but never will I load a state just because my situation has turned sour.
Also: power flickers, and when the computer comes back up, Mozilla opens with all tabs as they were, and my reply already typed? Well played, Compy...
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| Posted on 2010-09-04 03:14:17 PM |
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Thats Firefox For You (A Complement To Mozilla) I Use It!
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| Posted on 2010-09-08 10:22:32 AM |
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Give up savestates? No. Just no. Pretty much everything that I would say has been said already:
Originally posted by IceguyTSRPR
sucks
Well, let's just say it was my favorite hack to hate before ASMT came along, and for the exact same reason: the difficulty.
Originally posted by Iceguyand probably would have quit playing it out of frustration.
So true, so true. In fact, considering there isn't a single hack I've ever seen on SMWC that I would consider truly "easy", and probably 90% of them are at least somewhat difficult, there are a LOT of hacks I wouldn't play if I couldn't use savestates.
Originally posted by IceguyI find them very useful when I make ASM hacks and stuff (because when I need to test a sprite/patch/block, instead of loading the ROM again and again and waiting for the intro to finish etc. I could just use a savestate right at the level to save time).
This. Speaking of, am I the only one who finds it annoying when somebody posts a video in, e.g., the ASM showoff thread, and the first 20-30 seconds are just the title screen, intro, and overworld (if the item in question is within a level)? But yeah, savestates definitely make it more convenient to test things like custom sprites and music.
Originally posted by cheat-master30How is being stuck at an early level due to bad design appreciating something more than experiencing the whole game?
So true. Forget savestates, I've had to edit hacks in Lunar Magic just to combat this. Not very sporting, maybe, but look at it this way: I get to see what some of the rest of the hack is like, and it usually doesn't all suck as bad as the level at which I got stuck. That means higher ratings, for one thing. (Mind you, none of the hacks I've done this with were ones I actually finished or would want to.)
Originally posted by cheat-master30would you really want to watch them play the whole badly designed, extremely hard section fifty times?
No kidding. True, you can sometimes cut to the "good part" without showing the other stuff in a video, but...has anyone ever seen Kristian's LP of Bowser's Valley? Remember the World 7 ghost house and the first cave stage in World 8? I for one still have bad memories of when I was playing those levels....
I would also like to bring up two things that haven't been mentioned yet. First, I don't always use savestates just because a hack is hard. If it is very nonlinear, I may use them to check out the alternate paths and whatnot without having to replay the level every time. This applies to original games as well. Second, what about graphics ripping? Since most graphics are compressed, without savestates, you'd have to rip from screenshots.
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| Posted on 2010-09-09 10:37:45 AM |
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If the game crashes, rewinding may be useful.
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| Posted on 2010-09-16 10:57:30 AM |
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I only use savestates or rewinds beafore unfair segments based on luck or when I'm testing my own levels.
I've allways thought savestates where for noobs, specialy if they are overused. I'd rather try the same level over 100 time than clearing it with savestates, what's the point on playing a game if you can't lose? The creator implemented dificulty in their game for some reason you know, the puspuse of the game is not just to walk around the level with no fear of losing.
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| Posted on 2011-06-14 12:06:19 PM |
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I agree with everyone who says savestating is useful for hack testing. If I've edited a sublevel, particularly in a later level, it's more convenient to have Mario stand near the exit to that sublevel, make a savestate, test the sublevel, make any needed adjustments, then test said adjustments by loading the savestate.
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| Posted on 2011-06-15 02:38:49 AM |
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I'm not really sure with this because savestates and rewinds can sometimes help you if something will glitch up. I'm trying to not use them but in Kaizo Hacks you must use savestates because it's impossible to beat a super-hard level. It's also useful for testing levels. If you've a level with some sublevels then you can make a savestate near a warp pupe/door and test it next time from this point instead from the beggining of a level. Savestates and rewinds can also help you with beating a very hard level (starting 20 times from the beggining can be annoying). If it's cheating for you, then don't use them. They're useful in SMW hacking.
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| Posted on 2011-06-18 11:09:58 PM |
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Here's a nifty accessory that was available for the Super Nintendo.
Back in the old days, we had to purchase our state saving devices. You young'uns should be grateful to be able to save state... for Free!
Anyway, I like save states, they let me save my game when I'm playing a game with save spots located wherever. It also, like people are pointing out, makes it easier to test hacks.
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Forum Index - Hobbies - Gaming - Savestating and Rewinding |
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