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MSU1 Discussion
Forum Index - SMW Hacking - SMW Hacking Discussion - MSU1 Discussion
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I'm sort of indifferent to it. It'd be interesting to see in just two or three hacks, but I'm worried that newbies will use it and re-use it until it's completely overused as soon as the MSU1 chip is available. Garbage hacks full of floating stacked Munchers and cutoff are bad enough without the rap music talking about crack cocaine and illegal activities playing in the background.

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"Lip: A Fairy's Tale" project status: Slow (Visit the project thread here!)

Yes, you could say I like Osaka.
Originally posted by Marioman

But seriously, all I'm seeing in this damn thread is arguments and obvious rage. I mean come on, a person just gave SMW hacking a whole new level, and you guys are giving a certain excuse saying it's "Cheating"? Seriously? Basically what Weeabuu said, if you don't like it then don't use it and don't even talk crap about it too. It just makes you look like an ass.

I for one am very hyped about this new feature, and is waiting for a public release for anyone to implement this feature on our own hacks. It'll be much better. And don't say it'll ruin the "nostalgic" feel.
Wasn't SMW hacking meant to make the game better in many ways, and make it, it's own game?

Seriously guys. Being an asshole wont help. And please don't accuse me for calling anyone an asshole. I'm just making a point.

QFT.
Originally posted by Midna
I'm sort of indifferent to it. It'd be interesting to see in just two or three hacks, but I'm worried that newbies will use it and re-use it until it's completely overused as soon as the MSU1 chip is available. Garbage hacks full of floating stacked Munchers and cutoff are bad enough without the rap music talking about crack cocaine and illegal activities playing in the background.


Newbie hacks always were and always will be. Think of it: then every new "revolutionary" thing in SMW Hacking is a good place for noobs to make it worse? With this attitude we can say ExGFX is overused, and noobs can make worse hacks with it, unfitting, clashing graphics, garbage tiles, ugly ExGFX. But this is just an (kinda stupid) example. Seriously, if we wanted to really do against newbies, we should've kill FuSoYa before he releases Lunar Magic, then all of the garbage hacks cannot be made.
Also, I totally agree with Marioman and Buu here. And I'm really waiting for the public release. :D
Hopefully my last post in this thread, but for some reason I feel the need to summarize my point of view one more time.

  • The MSU1 feature kind of ruins the feeling of hacking for me. However, I can't explain why, as there always seems to be a valid counterargument (ex.: Weeabuu's) - it's just some weird, inexplicable, emotional thing I guess.

  • That does not mean I don't like the MSU1. I do appreciate the existence of such a feature, I'm glad for those who love it and will use it, I do appreciate the work byuu put into it, and I won't boycott people who like it or hacks who contain it. I'm just not too exited about it, and probably not going to use it.


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So awful people can make awful hacks even more ... awful. Is anyone forcing you to play them? When used properly, MSU1 will only make the great hacks even more engaging. Music is a big deal, after all. And when used improperly, everyone can shun and ignore the work.

Or does someone here really think that because MSU1 is here, a really great hack will suddenly be destroyed because it will be packed full of gangster rap music? Even in that extreme case, the good news is it's now even easier to replace the bad music with good music.

Oh yeah, one more thing on file size. Any music format works, you could also distribute 64KB SPCs that turn into WAVs for MSU1. The size doesn't have to be massive for downloading. But it will be big on disk. Then again, 2TB HDDs go for $89 these days, so I'm not too worried about that.
I think I'm with everyone else in saying that this is the most revolutionary piece of hackery-technology for Super Mario World. It sucks that the only emulator that uses this technology is bSNES. It's not bad actually, if you want to know.

I can't really say anything that hasn't been said already, so I hope this technology gets implemented into a lot more hacks.

Honestly, I would love for this to be used in Final Destination. Who's with me?
Originally posted by byuu
It seems many are upset that their hard work making chip-tunes is somehow negated by this. Why would you let the existence of something else diminish your pride in your own work? That's absurd.


Originally posted by Andy
before, it was like you could only compose music on an out-of-tune piano with only half the keys, and now you might as well have a full orchestra at your disposal, complete with singers and voice actors if you wish.


Agreeing with these points 100%

And the 'it will just get overused' argument sounds very odd. Shitty hacks will be shitty whether or not they use the MSU1, so how is it a concern here? Quality application of MSU1 is not something to fear being 'overused' so that doesn't make sense either. Also, compressed audio delivered as part of a hack will not get that large if download sizes are of concern (the files don't have to be hosted in full at smwcentral.net). My shitty Australian internet can download dozens of hacks a month and still have plenty of quota left over =)

I also get that musicians like the challenges of working with the original APU limits, but I also find it hilariously ironic that people who actually defended the ZSNES echo issue (which is impossible to do on a SNES no matter what you attach to it) to be against the MSU1. It's a real mess.

I like Andy's point about having a full orchestra at your disposal. Anyone who is creatively restricted by what the original music setup offers would be able to pull out something really impressive here, while still being totally possible to run on a SNES. I do understand the people who like the challenge and will stay away from it regardless, but others using the MSU1 should not make you feel more 'worthless' or whatever it was. If that *is* an issue, it's entirely a personal problem and not an issue with the MSU1.
this is pretty cool. i dont wanna get in this argument, but i just see it as another pretty cool tool to make smw hacking better for those who know how to use it. but even its almost like sample tool, not everyone wants to use it, but then even less people will use this as a result. but this is also good for those people, like SNN, who make music so that they don't have to port it if they dont want to, which is very, very useful.
Originally posted by byuu
Or does someone here really think that because MSU1 is here, a really great hack will suddenly be destroyed because it will be packed full of gangster rap music? Even in that extreme case, the good news is it's now even easier to replace the bad music with good music.

Hey now - let's not forget the long-standing history of rap music being used in Super Mario Bros. products.

On that note, though, one of my first ideas with this was to make a new god-awful soundtrack for Super Mario World.

Originally posted by smkd
I do understand the people who like the challenge and will stay away from it regardless, but others using the MSU1 should not make you feel more 'worthless' or whatever it was. If that *is* an issue, it's entirely a personal problem and not an issue with the MSU1.

Agreed.

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[?] Miscellaneous Helpful Hints
If I moderated your hack, there was apparently a 90 percent chance it was rejected.
This is something usefull, and i'm for sure am going to use it with a public release, for the ones saying it will ruin the SMW feel, it was already ruined, if thats the case, Custom graphics, Custom sprites, ASM, and any other thing, already modified the SMW entirely, We change every single thing in SMW, and yet, it is something good, and even if it is not in the rom, who cares, the final product is what count, and it is a top quality hack, if those resources where used right.

Now a small question to byuu, Is there any way to insert videos of any kind? i got this idea some while back, doing videos outside the ROM, and be unlocked with passwords. but since MSU1 did such a thing with music, i'm wondering if the videos could be possible in the future.



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To be honest, I can't wait to use this as boss music.

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I haven't read all the posts here but I've written an article with my thoughts in my blog. Be aware, it became a detailed wall of text.

http://ersanio.blogspot.com/2010/09/generic-talking-4-msu1-my-opinion.html
My blog. I could post stuff now and then
Layout by Counterfeit.
Originally posted by Ersanio
I haven't read all the posts here but I've written an article with my thoughts in my blog. Be aware, it became a detailed wall of text.

http://ersanio.blogspot.com/2010/09/generic-talking-4-msu1-my-opinion.html

"Lets just hope that people won't put things like 256-colored goatse timebombs in their hacks."

What's a "Goatse time bomb"?

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Goatse is some shock site that shows some porn thingy if you stay there too long. I think it's gone now.
The phrase "256 color goatse timebomb" comes from BTSD. It adds the string "somewhere in this ROM is a 256 color goatse timebomb, just waiting for that moment" to the rom for some reason, I think it's to identify whether its ASM hacks are installed or not.

tl;dr: It's some sort of joke.

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<blm> zsnes users are the flatearthers of emulation
i can already see something like this being a favourite in idiotic hacks. (porn sounds on intro of link)

but i agree with WYE its a great feature, but it doesnt feel like a 16 bit game to me so i'll most likly stick to porting via txt.

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Your layout has been removed.
Originally posted by Alcaro
Goatse is some shock site that shows some porn thingy if you stay there too long. I think it's gone now.

well of course i know what goatse is


also it can never be gone because of mirrors

Originally posted by OGS93
i can already see something like this being a favourite in idiotic hacks. (porn sounds on intro of link)

You should really label that as NSFW, what with, well, EVERYTHING in it.

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The video support in MSU1 is only allowed via the large data storage. It doesn't do anything a real SNES cartridge alone could not.

This means that you are limited to roughly 240x160x256 [email protected] or 224x144x256 [email protected] You basically store raw tiledata for each frame inside the MSU1 datafile, and DMA as much as you can while the screen is not rendering. You use Mode 3 for 256 colors.

If you watch the lunar.sfc video from http://byuu.org/21fx , that's pretty close to the limits of quality you can push without really cheating.

To get better quality than that, you'd have to have something like the 32X where the console video output gets connected to your new device, and your new device outputs its own video with the old graphics superimposed or toggleable.

But at that point, not even I am interested. You've essentially created a whole new gaming console. And really, there's nothing wrong with that, either. If making something that will never exist in hardware but furthers the quality of what you're trying to do, by all means, go for it. Just I'm not going to help you with that.
Originally posted by TheGamer
Now a small question to byuu, Is there any way to insert videos of any kind? i got this idea some while back, doing videos outside the ROM, and be unlocked with passwords. but since MSU1 did such a thing with music, i'm wondering if the videos could be possible in the future.


Like this, which has been possible with bsnes for nine months?

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/y_y0qVuiNJY?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/y_y0qVuiNJY?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

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[?] Miscellaneous Helpful Hints
If I moderated your hack, there was apparently a 90 percent chance it was rejected.
This really feels like one of those situations where we were too busy trying to figure out if we could to ponder if we should. This is really really out of line IMO. I mean, what's next, emulating the N64 polygon system on SNES because with X modifications, we can? Just because I don't get HOW it works, doesn't invalidate my opinion of how it feels, and that what it seems byuu is doing when people complain that it doesn't feel authentic. My honest opinion on this matter is this; it's not part of the SNES, therefore, it SHOULDN'T be part of the SNES.
Shut up, Atma. You just don't want to lose your job.

Atma, I know you love SMW music porting, but just because this will exist, doesn't mean actual SMW sound will die. This can co-exist with your method. Maybe some people like it this way.
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