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| Improvements, Thoughts, and SMWCP2 |
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Forum Index - Archive - An SMWC Production - Improvements, Thoughts, and SMWCP2 |
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| Posted on 2011-01-01 06:55:31 PM |
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Originally posted by asdf- Rupture in Reality: Another level where the second half just killed the enjoyment for me. Many portions of it just struck me as ridiculous to make it through even by World 8 standards. This also partially harps back to my MMP point earlier- had that was applied much sooner, I would suggested adding a 2nd checkpoint about halfway through the Layer 2 portion of the level.
You should've played the original before SNN rebalanced it. Haven't played through to see how it went, but in part, I said that "the fact that I was having trouble with a cape, slowdown, and invincibility" was reason enough to throw the whole level out the window.
Admittedly, my gripe with Rupture in Reality mostly (if not all) stems from the original version of it. (any level changes from the last base ROM up to the final release are all new to me, such as many songs being changed, for example) I went through the two versions back and forth and from my observation, it looks a lot more managible (sp), so my standpoint on the level will probably change when I get to it, so I'll edit my post in a bit to have a "stand-in" least favorite level.
QuoteToo late. Why would I be complaining if I didn't already grab it?
Then it's your own damn problem. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with having a checkpoint in between a key and a keyhole.
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| Last edited on 2011-01-01 06:55:46 PM by MrDeePay. |
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| Posted on 2011-01-01 07:06:30 PM |
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I had no Koopas alive before this glitch happened. I had to cheat using an old save that was from the old last release before teh official OFFICIAL release of teh hack, just to get past the plant castle boss. But...
Still, there's tile limitations still occurign wiht teh boss when I painstakingly cheated to get to the end... and when I got to the koopa spitting, I hit the boss and it dies in one hit still and I'm still stuck, thus teh reason for cheating. Since I cheated...
I'm not going to play teh hack until this problem gets fixed...
And ignore my horrid spelling errors: I type too damn fast and give nto a damn about ti as I'm currently cooking dinner as you read the end of my message.
ONE MORE THING: I restarted the game... and my file save never "saved itself" I had to start over from the fucking beginning again. This hack bites...
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| Last edited on 2011-01-01 07:08:23 PM by Black Crystal Wisher. |
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| Posted on 2011-01-01 07:15:48 PM |
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Either you loaded from a savestate that had different progress (happens to me a fair bit when I test my own hack), did something to the SR(A)M file, or you never saved your progress to begin with. If worse came to worse, Hadron posted a 100%/20,000 coins save in the SRAM/Savestate thread in Hack Discussion.
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| Posted on 2011-01-01 08:02:22 PM |
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Originally posted by moltensnowOriginally posted by GoldenSonic15Originally posted by moltensnowFootball Canyon: I FUCKING HATE THIS LEVEL. Once you get the midpoint, it's pretty much impossible to get the secret exit because the Chuck is too far back.
Then don't grab the midpoint. Duh.
Too late. Why would I be complaining if I didn't already grab it?
Then complete the godfreaking level the normal way and do it again WITHOUT grabbing it.
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| Posted on 2011-01-01 11:10:52 PM |
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Lemme just dump my thoughts out here. (read: wall of text)
First, I do believe I was only let on to the beta testing team because I had the ability to test the hack on a real SNES. While that failed miserably, I did glean a few important tidbits. First: It's nigh impossible to completely neglect hardware accuracy for 99% of a hack's production and then stuff it in at the last minute. Mostly Entirely due to addmusic, though. Second: Playing a hack in your living room on a big screen is worlds apart from sitting at your computer playing with a controller on fullscreen without savestates. I was completely powerless to beat the world 1 boss on hardware. If I jumped, it seemed to figure that out before I did, and threw a fireball right there, killing me. On my computer, I was able to pass the boss fairly quickly with no savestates at all.
Second, there was something way wrong about the order this hack was constructed. Waiting for Riolu180 to finish the overworld so level design could begin was possibly the worst design choice of the entire hack. Honestly, I'd rather the levels be designed first, then the overworld designed around the levels by a number of people, not just one. The overworld designers would be picked like the beta testers, through applications and displays of skill. Going back to my point of designing the levels first, imagine gluing several wires on to the face of a CD, then shoving the whole thing through honey. Would you rather push the wires or the CD through first?
Third, there should definitely be more structure in making the hack. I can only begin to list the ways the hack would benefit from better systems of resource claiming, ASM insertion, and just general all-around knowledge of the state of the hack. Just like this thread, users would be able to jump on to a little bug and make sure it got ironed out before the hack got to beta. There would be in-depth conversation about every facet of the hack, smoothing it into a perfect sphere. To go in to more specific details, there should be a whole website, or at least a specially coded section of the central, in which people could claim levels, exits, and sprite numbers. Maybe a library-like system of checking out the ROM, modifying it, and returning it. Backups would be made at every point, and if a person returned a ROM with severe enough bugs, they would be punished in some way. Yes, I realize this would severely slow down the multi-user part of the process, but practically eliminate the twilight zone between level completion and beta testing. That was two months of hell, remember?
Fourthly, I'd just like to reaffirm everyone's complaints that the hack was too hard. I play a bit of Kaizo, and the endgame here was easily that hard.
Fifthly, I think that all of the above points are important concepts that really need to be applied to the SMWCP2. In addition, I will definitely be much more involved in the sequel than the first one.
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| Posted on 2011-01-01 11:24:35 PM |
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I just want to say that the suggestion to create the levels before the overworld is perfectly valid, but there is one problem with it: namely, knowing the world structure beforehand gives people a much better idea what sort of level to make. It'd really suck if we got all the levels in and there were a disproportionate number of, say, plains-type stages compared to everything else.
I'd be interested to know how we'd get around such a thing (aside from the obvious, "oops, we've already got too many of x-type of level. Yours didn't make the cut. Too bad.").
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| Posted on 2011-01-01 11:58:32 PM |
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Most likely it could work out the same way the level list for SMWCP worked out. Using World 5 for example.
- General Sky Level
- General Sky Level
- General Sky Level (Ascent)
- General Sky Level (Ascent)
- General Sky Level (Descent)
- Sky Platform Level
- Sky Platform Level
- Sky Platform Level
- Sky Ghost House
- Sky Palace
- Sky Fortress
- Sky Castle
- Switch Palace (Red)
Naturally there would be a restriction on the castle in which it would be the last (or second to last, as Sanc. Fortress was) level in the world as well as the most difficult. The main issue with that, however, is how to deal with secret exits. I suppose there could be a limit on how many secret exits a world can have and which levels cannot have a secret exit. Then, designers could request their level have a secret exit and the OW designer(s) could work from there.
(Yay 1,000 posts! My e-ego grew just a smudge big bigger now!)
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| Last edited on 2011-01-02 12:00:30 AM by MrDeePay. |
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| Posted on 2011-01-02 12:05:10 AM |
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1 problem: I'm at world 7, and I only have 1 switch palace. D:
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| Posted on 2011-01-02 12:08:39 AM |
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Originally posted by Noobish NoobsicleLemme just dump my thoughts out here. (read: wall of text)
First, I do believe I was only let on to the beta testing team because I had the ability to test the hack on a real SNES. While that failed miserably, I did glean a few important tidbits. First: It's nigh impossible to completely neglect hardware accuracy for 99% of a hack's production and then stuff it in at the last minute. Mostly Entirely due to addmusic, though. Second: Playing a hack in your living room on a big screen is worlds apart from sitting at your computer playing with a controller on fullscreen without savestates. I was completely powerless to beat the world 1 boss on hardware. If I jumped, it seemed to figure that out before I did, and threw a fireball right there, killing me. On my computer, I was able to pass the boss fairly quickly with no savestates at all.
Second, there was something way wrong about the order this hack was constructed. Waiting for Riolu180 to finish the overworld so level design could begin was possibly the worst design choice of the entire hack. Honestly, I'd rather the levels be designed first, then the overworld designed around the levels by a number of people, not just one. The overworld designers would be picked like the beta testers, through applications and displays of skill. Going back to my point of designing the levels first, imagine gluing several wires on to the face of a CD, then shoving the whole thing through honey. Would you rather push the wires or the CD through first?
Third, there should definitely be more structure in making the hack. I can only begin to list the ways the hack would benefit from better systems of resource claiming, ASM insertion, and just general all-around knowledge of the state of the hack. Just like this thread, users would be able to jump on to a little bug and make sure it got ironed out before the hack got to beta. There would be in-depth conversation about every facet of the hack, smoothing it into a perfect sphere. To go in to more specific details, there should be a whole website, or at least a specially coded section of the central, in which people could claim levels, exits, and sprite numbers. Maybe a library-like system of checking out the ROM, modifying it, and returning it. Backups would be made at every point, and if a person returned a ROM with severe enough bugs, they would be punished in some way. Yes, I realize this would severely slow down the multi-user part of the process, but practically eliminate the twilight zone between level completion and beta testing. That was two months of hell, remember?
Fourthly, I'd just like to reaffirm everyone's complaints that the hack was too hard. I play a bit of Kaizo, and the endgame here was easily that hard.
Fifthly, I think that all of the above points are important concepts that really need to be applied to the SMWCP2. In addition, I will definitely be much more involved in the sequel than the first one.
I'll say a lot of these points are a result of us never having done a project like this before and therefore winging it as far as figuring out how "best" to do things. Now that we have experience in the matter, we can apply what we learned to any potential SMWCP2 we do in the future.
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| Posted on 2011-01-02 12:37:12 AM |
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Originally posted by Noobish NoobsicleFourthly, I'd just like to reaffirm everyone's complaints that the hack was too hard. I play a bit of Kaizo, and the endgame here was easily that hard.
Yes the hack was extremely hard, but it was not even remotely close to Kaizo. Kaizo is many times harder than this, I managed to complete the endgame (void) without savestates, which is something I have not done in a Kaizo hack.
Also, I'm ready for SMWCP2 to begin, I don't think that there is anybody against that.
gibberish
-what is with the banzii bills?
-star music spins my head right round. : )
-lol, manly toadsworth?
-Time Up Tunnels speed run only gives you 3 (or 6 if you have all llama coins) lives? complete BS.
-CURSE YOU GLITCHY VOID HUB!
Edit: Jan 2
-Finally achieved full completion
-FTW new favoirte level is Megadmin, no spoilers
-Spoiler: math is my new favorite subject
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| Last edited on 2011-01-02 06:36:06 PM by Clay_Buster. |
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| Posted on 2011-01-02 12:39:50 AM |
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Void hub was fixed in 1.3, but because of the nature of the orbs (they update your SRAM), you'd need to complete each room again.
Also, I'm thinking about the six bonus world levels, and only two of them stand out to me as being overly difficult. Nonetheless, the difficulty curve issue has been more than established because of levels like Football Canyon.
I have been enjoying reading these thought so far, and I encourage more.
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| Posted on 2011-01-02 02:48:36 AM |
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All right, I just beat world 2 (all secret exits found), so time for some rambling. I imagine these will come in 2 or 3-world bursts from me.
World 1 overall was nothing special...but hey, it's world 1 and that's what happens, especially when most of the levels of the world were designed before we got the green light to smother the hack in chocolate. In spite of that, I feel that it was a good opening world for the hack since it was nice and typical, easing the player into the game instead of blasting them with too much new stuff at once.
Big Baddie Cave stuck out to me, though. It was definitely more difficult than the other non-castle levels, and the red/blue block section didn't seem to work right (more than once did I slip through the corners of the blocks into oblivion). Nothing to actually complain about, though.
World 2 is still fresh in my memory, so there are a lot more specifics here. This is where the flow of the game really started feeling muddled. Still, for the most part, it was all enjoyable.
Football Canyon in particular caught my attention. I could probably write a book on this level, but suffice it to say that while the level was interesting...it was also extremely dissonant from the rest of the world 2 stages. The Cave Story section was quite horrible, seeing as most people (including me) don't know how all those enemies behave beforehand and will likely get trounced before devising an appropriate strategy (not helping is that Mario only gets two or three hits before death, whereas I imagine Cave Story has a much more lenient HP system)...and never you mind that these ridiculous enemies were used in tandem with an obscure and trying puzzle. The Chargin' Chuck puzzle in the beginning for the key was a bit unintuitive (but definitely unique), but having to keep the key through all that mess only to be absolutely befuddled by what to do for the keyhole...I'm not going to say the level shouldn't have been designed the way it was, but this kind of thing definitely shouldn't have shown up in the middle of world-freaking-TWO. Even the normal exit was a pain to obtain.
In a complete turnabout, though, Swampland Passage was much, much easier than the level that unlocks it (which is very odd, I think). I think the difficulty for it was more akin to what we should be seeing in world 2 overall, but it was probably too easy for its placement (since it is an optional level and all).
Weeaboo Manor really bothered me at first, but after I figured out the puzzle (and stopped missing some of the obvious things I was supposed to do that made the level to me appear unwinnable), I realized I actually really enjoy the stage. I must say the use of vanilla graphics was top-notch here, as well. I don't think I've ever seen a more beautiful ghost house. The secret exit was cleverly hidden, too, and didn't require every trick in the book to get to. The level's puzzle was indeed a bit on the tough side, but since it appears on an optional path, the difficulty of the stage is appropriate (especially since it conceals the path to something very important).
Finally, Grinder Castle was also dissonant with the rest of world 2 in difficulty, but considering the world 1 castle did the same thing to its respective region, I suppose it can be overlooked...though I'd probably at least remove some of the stationary grinders from the first part to balance it out a bit. I found the boss here to be a much more enjoyable fight than the world 1 boss, and I must give a very big KUDOS to the author of this boss for actually making it feel like something official. It even has a flinch animation and everything - something I wish I would see on even half the custom bosses I've encountered in my SMW hack playing.
I guess that's all for now. I'll ring in later for thoughts on later worlds. I hope my constant rambling won't be off-putting to anyone. :3 Indeed, I hope it's okay if I go on like this about so many levels...
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| Posted on 2011-01-02 03:47:25 AM |
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Alright, gave it a little bit of a play through, got through a few levels at least. I'll probably do some more at a later date.
Now, since I wasn't here until like a month before its completion, I don't know a lot about it. Is it supposed to be "serious", I.E. something that one could see Nintendo doing?
I'll be completely honest, I was put off by the bonzai bill artwork as well as fucking meatspin music playing during invincibility. The rest that I saw so far wasn't bad though.
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| Posted on 2011-01-02 06:31:20 AM |
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(broken wall of text alert) I've only played till close to the end of World 2, so I can't say much about the hack in general... but (in no particular order):
A level that stood out a bit to me was Football Canyon. The key was hard to get, but the idea was ingenius. The chuck filled half didn't really blend to the Cave Story half though. Near the beginning of the Cave Story half I was a bit surprised when the critter jumped out of seemingly nowhere... until I saw the ledge below it. Never expected a smaller brick to throw me down also. =/ The keyhole was confusing to reach, since the venting air at the top blows out faster than it does closer to the source. The only way I could find to the key was a forced powerdown also. =/
There was also Treacherous Tower, with the blind jump onto a grinder. The feather inside gave me a feeling that the feather would be introduced in the next world. So far it hasn't... The large Spiny was difficult to beat just because of the fireballs. Sometimes I could swipe them into a puff of smoke, sometimes I couldn't. I never knew anything that could shoot fire up through it's shell. =/ I never really knew how thrown bricks could hurt just as much as a brick that hasn't been thrown...
I found myself glitching through the red/blue bricks in Weeaboo Manor, falling into bottomless pits twice (in a row! =o). The level was the best ghost house I've ever played. The Stretches' bottoms disturb me, as the color of the ghost didn't match the block. That made me wonder if the Stretches really were in that block...
I found two music glitches in P-Switch Peak... Which didn't destroy the music, but (personally) made it sound better. XD For some reason an echo effect occured overground when I KOed a certain enemy (I forget which) and an instrument changed when I KOed a Koopa. I think Addmusic is to blame though...
Peach's Castle seems a bit strange. Did the princess make you find eggs before Mario told her in World 2? I never thought she'd be so rude also...
The Toad Town Bar and Grill seems to fit the "people from all over" idea. =o
And So It Begins... It did begin, with an exellent start! The level somehow felt like it really was the start of an adventure.
Big Baddie Cave had a neat idea put to good use. (BTW, the second part is easy if you just wait for the fire to pass) XD
The hint in Forgotten Forest seemed awesome! The hidden pipe does live up to the first message's lines.
Sunny River Was pretty sunny, and somehow it seems awesome. XD
Weeaboo Manor did great with the Koopa palette. They look like they really are ghosts! XD
So far the dialog between Mario and Luigi fits their roles. (When the main character talks, it personally adds more dimension to the game) The forshadowing doesn't reveal much yet, but I wonder what's to come...
The music I've heard so far in the game is just... spectacular! The music chosen fits the theme of the levels, and each note seemed carefully picked from epicness... XD
I'll add more as I continue on in the hack. =o
Suggestions:
I know I can't say much about the project since I didn't participate... T.T but the level difficulty doesn't have a flow so far. Maybe people could make their levels before the overworld's done?
A pet peeve of mine are bosses... Somehow I'm really annoyed when a thrown brick hurts just as much as a brick that isn't thrown. It's not like Boos and light, so why act like it? (XD boss idea get!)
Some big patches/tools like the Midway Point patch and the VWF Cutscene tool should be used early on in the creation process so people can have their say on the cutscenes and maybe add more midpoints to some levels... Xd
I apologize about how harsh this post may sound, I'm horrible at putting thoughts into words.
Pointless Edit: This was Post 101... Coincidence?
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| Last edited on 2011-01-02 06:32:23 AM by scepile. |
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| Posted on 2011-01-02 10:49:08 AM |
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Sinister Something:
When collecting a fire flower while the controls are reverted the game just freezes.
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| Posted on 2011-01-02 11:14:39 AM |
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Originally posted by scepileThere was also Treacherous Tower, with the blind jump onto a grinder. The feather inside gave me a feeling that the feather would be introduced in the next world. So far it hasn't...
Actually, there is a cape feather in P-Switch Peaks near the very end of the level. The level takes long enough to clear that it's not very handy to farm the cape here, but I'm just chiming in to say that I did find at least one in world 2. :3
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| Posted on 2011-01-02 11:37:37 AM |
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Originally posted by Clay_Buster-lol, manly toadsworth?
That would be my merit. Thank Roy for using my idea of incorporating a Chou Aniki style part into the boss. :3
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| Posted on 2011-01-02 11:57:10 AM |
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So far the game is the best hack I've played since I've started playing mario rom hacks. one thing that can be improved though is balancing out the difficulty. At some points it can be easy, the all of a sudden the level will be excruciatingly hard,but then the next level will be a cake walk. I would so like to see this problem fixed and maybe some super guide function so that beginners can get through the game.
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| Posted on 2011-01-02 12:13:30 PM |
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Levels that I liked:
-Permafrost Glacier: I loved it because of the creative use of Layer 3 for the water (without current). Also, its graphics are very beautiful, and the level is one of the most fun levels of the hack.
-Sanctuary Fortress: Again, beautiful graphics and stuff. And it has a very creative gimmick (the Spider Climb). The boss is hard but sweet, and the level is an epic one (I love long levels).
-Bowser's Castle: Another epic level, and very challenging. The most breathtaking parts are the virtual reality ones, because of the graphics mixing and the difficulty. It's hard but fun. Also, Toadsworth battle is really clever.
Levels that I didn't like:
-Sizzling Spires: It's way too difficult. That's right that it's a special world level, but it has very annoying and extremely difficult parts. The hardest part was the last one, when Mario rides the Marine Pop underlava. There were very unfair enemy placements, and I died there a lot of times.
-Grinder Castle: The same issue as above: difficulty. It's the World 2 castle, but its difficulty would fit a World 6 or 7. Again, it's problem is: unfair enemy placements.
Other stuff:
-There's an issue about Pink'n'Purple Path: In the Sky submap, the level appears as a water level, but the level has no water at all. This should be fixed.
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Forum Index - Archive - An SMWC Production - Improvements, Thoughts, and SMWCP2 |
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