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| [Complete] 120 - Cloud Caverns - Ragey |
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Forum Index - Events - SMW Central Production 2 - World 6 - [Complete] 120 - Cloud Caverns - Ragey |
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| Posted on 2011-07-25 02:41:24 PM |
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Full level coming tonight or else tomorrow.
Only thing missing as of now is a small subroom.
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| Posted on 2011-07-27 05:55:28 AM |
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Level here: http://bin.smwcentral.net/u/232/ASMWCP2-L120.ips
Note 1: Music is not final, of course.
Note 2: The pipe that is blocked off by used blocks leads to a small bonus that has the missing "big coin" inside of it. This room is not yet added. The rest of the level is done.
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| Posted on 2011-07-27 06:01:22 AM |
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...Am I doing something wrong, or is the whole level's graphics glitched up?
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| Posted on 2011-07-27 08:48:07 AM |
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Just tested it on a clean rom and its not giving me any problems... Dunno what the problem is? :S
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| Posted on 2011-07-27 08:49:17 AM |
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When played that level...
The graphics are glitched...
Need fix this...
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| Posted on 2011-07-27 09:08:01 AM |
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Originally posted by RageyJust tested it on a clean rom
Are you sure?
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| Posted on 2011-07-27 10:37:27 AM |
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Patch based on a different ROM: http://bin.smwcentral.net/u/232/ASMWCP2-L120-2.ips
Hope this fixes it.
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| Posted on 2011-07-27 11:33:37 AM |
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However I like the idea having the clouds before everything, it is a bit to much. I can't get back above.
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| Posted on 2011-07-27 11:51:25 AM |
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Going to agree. It was a nice idea in theory, but unless you make several more openings, it's far too much memory-work trying to get back through the switch room there (and memory-work isn't bad in small doses, but this takes it too far).
The level as a whole .. it's not bad, but I kind of feel underwhelmed by it, if we're being honest. Given the sprites you've chosen, I could palette-swap it to red and people would think it's a fire-themed level. Other than that, it doesn't really seem to stick with one theme. You introduce the cloud mechanic in the ON/OFF room, but aside from a few coverings in the second half of the level, it's never really touched upon in a fancy way again.
I don't know. I honestly don't have much to say about this one. It's not like there are glaring issues, but the whole thing just feels completely average to me. I'll let others chime in though.
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| Posted on 2011-07-27 01:07:20 PM |
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I have to agree that the level theme confuses me- is this a sky stage or a fire stage? I'm not opposed to having fire elements in a sky level, but every enemy in your stage besides bullet bills is a fire type, and yet the environment doesn't feel fiery at all, including the palette. Somehow it feels like a mismatch.
On top of that, the way clouds are used to obfuscate some enemies and platforms is just silly. From the (completely!) unfair memory-based switch room to bullet bills heard but not seen, this is not how an obscuring mechanic should be used at all. You're not supposed to just completely hide things; players should have some leeway, should feel that they have some sense of control.
In the switch room, for example, there's no reason to pay attention to the maze until you realize what the mechanic is, and then you can no longer see the top half of it because it's off-screen. You have to make COMPLETELY BLIND JUMPS to ascend. As in, sometimes you have no idea where Mario is. I mean, at least the 3D maze in Super Mario RPG didn't have enemies, allowed you to restart, and was optional! Even Blind Bailey from RttC had clear spaces interspersed with the layer priority stuff so you were never completely blind...This is just inexcusable.
After that section, you mostly obfuscate bullet shooters and their paths in a way that makes them very difficult to anticipate, and apart from that, the mechanic doesn't seem integrated into the design all that much, retreating to the fringes of the screen. For example, does the first section have to have no clouds at all? Couldn't the on/off switch just make them more densely concentrated instead of making them all appear out of nowhere? That would allow you to introduce a progression curve, too...
Now, having said all that, overall I like the way you're using those wall-planted springboards in the first section, and there are parts in the second half like screens 3-5 that have a nice sense of tension with the firebars and bullet bills. If you expanded on the ideas in those parts, that would be nice...but again, there are thematic issues here. To me at least, this feels like a cloud level with fire enemies, not a fiery cloud level, if that makes sense, and the cloud mechanic could be implemented in a more thorough and fair manner.
Some other comments:
72
3: This bullet bounce seems rather arbitrarily difficult, especially in the beginning of the stage.
8: Can't players just take the hit in exchange for the cape? Hmm...
F: Doesn't Mario walk forward in the stage clear routine? This might look weird...
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5: This obfuscated upside-down shooter fires in a way that's very difficult to anticipate, since it comes on-screen in the middle of a jump.
7: The lower shooter is completely blind.
9, right: Personally I think cloud formations like this are just too wide. If you're going to hinder players' vision, you should leave intermittent gaps so players can get a bearing on their position. Otherwise it's probably just going to seem unfair. Now, it's true you put the enemies on the fringe of this formation, but even so...It might just be me, but I don't think layer priority things should cover too much (continuous) space in any case.
So yeah, those are my first impressions. Theme confusion, unfair implementation of the main mechanic, and too little integration of the main mechanic across the entire stage (as opposed to just half of it).
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| Last edited on 2011-07-27 01:08:30 PM by AxemJinx. |
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| Posted on 2011-07-30 04:25:57 PM |
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Just a quick note to tell you guys that version 2 will be up tomorrow. This version will have the feedback processed as well as the final bonus room added, allongside a few bugfixes.
Big features include a change of most sprites into non-fire counterparts, the addition of clouds in the majority of sublevel 72, and a reworked version of sublevel 71 (on/off cloud section).
Also taking the opportunity to thank you all for the feedback. Its really appreciated and helped me a lot.
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| Last edited on 2011-07-30 04:26:57 PM by Ragey. |
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| Posted on 2011-08-02 11:56:35 AM |
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http://bin.smwcentral.net/u/232/ASMWCP2-L120-3.ips
This version has the following changes:
> Most fire enemies replaced with non-fire enemies. The firebars remain, allong with two fire brothers.
> Clouds have been added throughout the first portion of the level.
> Level 73 has been added (*).
> Several Map16 errors I made throughout the level affected all the left walls in level 120. This has been fixed.
> 71: The ON/OFF clouds on the upper portion have been severely reduced in density. The lower portion is slightly less dense.
> 72-8: This part has been reworked. The bonus feather is now gained by making a bullet jump. This was a forced change due to level 72 no longer being compatible with firebars.
> 72-F: This part of the level has been redesigned to give Mario room to make his "end of level" march (AxemJinx).
> 120-5: This part has been redesigned to have the upper cannon shoot at a less awkward moment (AxemJinx).
> 120-7: Some clouds were removed to give better vision of the cannons.
> Several other minor adjustments have been made.
(*) Note: I am not too happy with how the final bonus room (73) turned out, but everything I tried here failed pretty badly. The design I have for it now "works", but I am very open to critique and suggestions on what to do here.
Note 2: I know the hammer brothers throw fishes, but I do not know which GFX file I am supposed to use to fix this.
I hope this version fixes all errors pointed out by you guys and I am eager for more feedback. I will be online tomorrow, playing some levels made by others and standing by to change anything that comes up. Thanks all!
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| Last edited on 2011-08-02 11:59:30 AM by Ragey. |
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| Posted on 2011-08-02 12:35:56 PM |
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I don't really like the way hammer bros. are used in this stage. Think about it: Mario defeats enemies by jumping on them, but since the hammer bro always throws hammers, that approach is pretty much null and void. So, you need to give players leeway in another manner if you're going to use them. The one on screen 2 of level 120 does this by placing the hammer bro above question blocks so you can attack from below. The rest don't. You don't have to use question blocks in every case- a lone (not kicked) shell would help you with the one on screen 6 in 120, for instance.
Also, on A/B of 120, I didn't really enjoy waiting for the bullet bill and fire bar to line up; I think you should redesign this setup.
I'm a bit iffy on the last smwcoin being guarded by two fire bros. whose (fast-moving) projectiles are pretty much completely obscured by that cloud- taken together, it's a bit much for me.
In the on/off side room, that first jump up after pressing the switch should not be completely obscured.
For the bonus p-switch room, you could make it more of a horizontal left->right stretch (as opposed to a loop), replace most/all the note blocks with actual enemy setups, and use something like p-quarters to keep the clouds at bay, perhaps. You could line the floor with exit pipes (and don't obfuscate them) for an easy exit if players mess up- more appropriate than death or having to feel your way back, for a bonus area.
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| Last edited on 2011-08-02 12:37:07 PM by AxemJinx. |
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| Posted on 2011-08-03 03:43:13 PM |
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What bothers me the most about this level is that the On/Off side room is a required room in order to complete the level. If it was just a bonus room solely for the purpose of grabbing that SMWC coin, I'd have no issue with some of the ridiculous obscuring setups that are going on, never mind the fact that because the bulk of the area is on screen 0, there's very little leftwards horizontal scroll to at least hint that Mario is still progressing left/right as opposed to walking endlessly into a barrier. However, the fact that it's a required side room really makes me question the severity of the opaque cloud layer. Granted, the latest version is much better than the last in that you've allowed for more gaps in the clouds, but then again, I've also tested this room quite a few times now, so I've gotten use to the path. Imagine those who are having to deal with this room blind. I don't know, maybe it's not as bad as I think it is, but still, I don't think it should be a required room to beat the level proper.
Additionally, there are a few tricky spots, most notably screen 04 of 072 and screens 0A/0B of 120. If you don't kill that hammer bros in time on screen 04, that pea bouncer is a nightmare to deal with. I just had to end up sacrificing my powerup every time I went through there. I really don't like, given the hammer's radius, how he can jump into an area where you can't reach him.
As Axem pointed out, lining up that firebar and bullet shooter is a real pain. Elsewhere, there's some irksome setups where you have to wait for some bullets to line up (mostly while on pea bouncers), but they're all tolerable. This area, however, after a few failed attempts, I've pretty much accepted it as another sacrificial zone.
Otherwise, I don't have much issue, if any with this level.
Oh, one last thing. What am I standing on exactly?
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| Posted on 2011-08-04 09:10:41 AM |
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I actually had the next version ready (was even in my filebin), but apparently I forgot to post it here.
Here it is (changed to fix that invisible block Milk is standing on).
http://bin.smwcentral.net/u/232/120-Finaldraft-1.ips
A big change in compariso to the last version is the P-Switch bonus room, which now includes enemy jumps rather than only noteblock jumps.
I would like more oppinions on the ON/OFF room. I really don't think it was too difficult in its previous form, so I have not yet changed it. If more people agree with it being to difficult, I will open some more holes.
Anyways, the level is fully playable atm.
Edit; I will be away from home until Sunday 7th or Monday 8th. I'm not sure if there's internet available at where Ill be staying, so I might not be able to logon during this period.
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| Last edited on 2011-08-05 08:48:53 AM by Ragey. |
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| Posted on 2011-08-05 02:40:22 PM |
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I don't mind the level as a whole, but I'm still feeling pretty bleh about the vision obstruction gimmick. For the most part, it's pretty fair, but my thoughts stand firm about that ON/OFF room - that is, it's still really ridiculous. It might actually make that subroom easier (and more interesting) if you enabled a layer 2 "autoscroll" in that room, that way it becomes more of a timing game rather than trying to retrace your steps. As it stands, it still feels incredibly blind.
Other than that, I have some minor complaints:
-The rightmost Swooper on screen 07 of level 72 offers very little reaction time, it seems.
-The music still feels tremendously unfitting. Can you put a different track in the level for your next update (i.e. one of the sky tracks, or .. -anything-, really).
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| Posted on 2011-08-11 07:48:00 AM |
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- One additional opening in the ON/OFF room.
- Fixed a pretty nasty glitch in the P-Switch room.
- Changed the music to something more fitting.
- The Swooper on 72-07 has been moved up one block to give the player more reaction time.
I guess the level is more or less finished now.
I do have one idea in mind that I am going to test out soon. It will take ages to set up and it might not work at all as I hope, so don't get your hopes up too much on this one. However, if it does work out, it will change the level drastically (hopefully for the better) and spice it up some more.
V5: http://bin.smwcentral.net/u/232/120-V5.ips
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| Last edited on 2011-08-11 07:50:48 AM by Ragey. |
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| Posted on 2011-08-12 01:18:55 PM |
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(I'm actually quite interested in hearing what this so-called idea is, actually. Your level isn't bad, but I'm always encouraging things which will improve the overall design).
Anyway, it's good for the most part now. I didn't feel that the vision obstruction gimmick was ever really used unfairly - that is, nothing felt overly blind, except for the odd Swooper here and there (which could be dodged with ease for the most part. However, I've got a couple of other things to point out.
See where I'm standing? If you make it a bit more obvious that you can jump up there - that is, make the hole a tad bigger - I think this whole area would be fine. I managed to get through it without much trouble.
Major bug here. I entered a cloud-covered vertical green pipe that was moderately close to the end of the level, and ended up in this glitchy room .. dead.
Can you raise the pipe up a few tiles here? The screen kind of jolts down when Mario enters, which leads me to believe the initial FG setting might be a bit off.
Pretty nicely done other than that. Like I said, I still want to hear more about this new idea you have brewing.
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| Posted on 2011-08-21 08:52:11 AM |
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Sorry for taking so long. With college starting in just a week, I've a lot of stuff on my mind now.
Regrettably, I haven't been able to work on my idea and I will probably just leave it out. I simply cannot find the time to set it up.
I did fix SNN's issues a few days ago. Atleast it's something 
http://bin.smwcentral.net/u/232/120-V6.ips (This version fixes SNN's three issues in the post above mine, as well as a minor graphical glitch that wasn't noted yet.)
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| Posted on 2011-08-26 09:49:08 AM |
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Looks good to me now. Unless you have anything else you want to add or change, you can send me the level's resources at this point if you wish.
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Forum Index - Events - SMW Central Production 2 - World 6 - [Complete] 120 - Cloud Caverns - Ragey |
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