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| Dawn of the Final Day |
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Forum Index - Events - SMW Central Production 2 - Dawn of the Final Day |
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| Posted on 2011-08-03 07:51:25 PM |
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I too must say it's sad to see you leave the project. The help you have brought has been immense, at least to those of us who accepted it graciously. It will be hard not having your eye of scrutiny chipping away at the project, be it outright chopping lackluster content, or being able to visualize how just the tiniest of modifications can make a world of difference. You've left mighty big shoes to fill when it comes to testing, critiquing and well...word of wisdom when it comes to fundamental game design.
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| Posted on 2011-08-03 08:50:24 PM |
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I was just checking in to say that I am still willing to work on a level for this project, I am even willing to put my SM64 hack on hiatus just till I'll complete the level.
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| Posted on 2011-08-03 10:24:54 PM |
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Originally posted by AxemJinxTime's up- three bucks off! *Slaps hands together*
And so, I wipe my hands of the whole affair- I'm leaving this project.
Feel free to use any of the resources I've gathered in the meantime. That includes using what I've constructed so far for my level as a base, if you're so inclined. Others appear to be using the sprites, so I'm glad Kipernal's work won't go to waste.
Frankly, my motivation's shot after seeing the way so many people have acted over the past 4+ months, and at this point, on the whole this community rather...disgusts me. It gives me no pleasure to say it, but it is how I feel. Perhaps it's just the impression I'm getting from this project, but even so.
Nonetheless, good luck, and thanks for the experience. I know some of you are very devoted and will help continue to steer this project in the proper direction.
So your entire motivation is based upon the actions of others? You should look into that.
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| Posted on 2011-08-03 11:13:59 PM |
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Originally posted by AxemJinxam leaving kthxbai
But I made the water section of my level just for you!!!! 
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| Posted on 2011-08-04 05:03:44 PM |
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Say, it might be worth it to do something about relocating that looming death clock at the top of every page into a more suitable habitat for such a majestic beast by now, yeah?
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| Posted on 2011-08-14 09:58:27 AM |
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Originally posted by AxemJinxTime's up- three bucks off! *Slaps hands together*
And so, I wipe my hands of the whole affair- I'm leaving this project.
Feel free to use any of the resources I've gathered in the meantime. That includes using what I've constructed so far for my level as a base, if you're so inclined. Others appear to be using the sprites, so I'm glad Kipernal's work won't go to waste.
Frankly, my motivation's shot after seeing the way so many people have acted over the past 4+ months, and at this point, on the whole this community rather...disgusts me. It gives me no pleasure to say it, but it is how I feel. Perhaps it's just the impression I'm getting from this project, but even so.
Nonetheless, good luck, and thanks for the experience. I know some of you are very devoted and will help continue to steer this project in the proper direction.
Not to turn this thread into an argument, but this does not seem to be a very mature response. I can definitely understand why working with people who don't show responsibility would make you stop testing their levels, but I don't think it gives you license to simply drop your own level. I think the best way to deal with this would be to have simply finished your own level and then left the project. In many ways you are just as irresponsible as all of the rest of the designers who failed to reach their deadlines.
That being said, I have always respected you as a ROM hacker; you have a great way of critiquing levels, and your level design is usually top-notch. I just think this particular problem could have been handled a lot better. I have no doubt that you put a huge amount of time into this project; perhaps seeing others treat it with less devotion led to this rash decision.
Regards,
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| Posted on 2011-08-14 12:19:36 PM |
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I just don't think he got the point that this happens with literally every single project ever (unless it is .. you know, commercial, because those people have made it their career/are getting paid for it). The fact that this particular collab has already progressed as far as it has is still pretty astounding in its own way .. though at this point, trying to explain that to him would be futile anyway since he's already made up his mind.
Eh. Oh well.
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| Posted on 2011-08-14 10:55:10 PM |
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Originally posted by tatangaNot to turn this thread into an argument, but this does not seem to be a very mature response. I can definitely understand why working with people who don't show responsibility would make you stop testing their levels, but I don't think it gives you license to simply drop your own level.
On the contrary: being unable to accomplish what I want to do with this project, it would be immature of me to lie to myself and try to believe otherwise. I've accepted that my interests and this hack have diverged, and I'm unobtrusively getting out of the way and moving on to other projects without dragging this one down with my increasingly contrary expectations. The level is immaterial, as someone will undoubtedly take my place and the subsequent level scrutinized until it meets whatever standards are enforced. The mindset that a level is the ultimate way to contribute is something I detest; I like to think my feedback was more important, regardless of whether I finished the level or not.
Originally posted by tatangaIn many ways you are just as irresponsible as all of the rest of the designers who failed to reach their deadlines.
To me, there is a difference between dropping out at the deadline after not communicating/participating for several months and withdrawing in protest of your own volition. Can you really say I've been irresponsible in light of just how much feedback I've provided, not to mention that with a single exception, I didn't selfishly take my resources with me? Are you certain that my level was really so important? What is one level to a collab hack, after all? It's the whole that matters.
Originally posted by tatangaperhaps seeing others treat it with less devotion led to this rash decision.
I don't think it was rash at all- I made my decision based on what I had seen over the course of several months after careful consideration, and I stand by that decision. And honestly, the ramifications of my actions are not far-reaching at all. This hack will still be completed, and I suspect it will be much better than its predecessor. As people have said numerous times, it has already broken new ground as far as collab hacks are concerned.
Yes, S.N.N., I understand both of those points perfectly well.
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| Posted on 2011-08-15 10:33:54 AM |
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Hmm, I will admit that you do make some very strong counterarguments. I would say the only issue I take now would be simply the principle of "finishing what you started." However, like you stated, if the hack has diverged from your interests I can definitely see where your coming from.
Also hopefully I wasn't giving the impression that a level was the greatest contribution; that was unintended. There's a lot more to creating a good game than just the levels.
Probably the main reason I am disappointed is simply because it will be a lot tougher for this hack to achieve its greatest potential without you helping. I agree that it's already breaking new ground and much superior to its predecessor, and I think it could be even better with your continued support.
To sum it up, I agree that if you feel your interests and the interests of the hack are separating, it's probably best if you move on. I'm just worried that the quality of the hack may suffer. Hopefully none of this came off as a personal attack, but rather just discussion.
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| Last edited on 2011-08-15 10:36:15 AM by tatanga. |
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| Posted on 2011-08-15 01:16:20 PM |
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I don't want to be rude, but it seems to me that people's expectations, both for SMCP1 and this project, were a bit unrealistic. Before SMCP1, no-one had ever attempted a team hack on such a massive scale. It is amazing that it was ever completed, let completed well. And even though it suffered greatly from inconsistent difficulty, sloppy and/or boring level design, and clashing graphics and music, it was still a really fun hack. If the same standards that are being assigned to this project were assigned to the first, I don't believe that there would be a chance that it would ever have been done.
As for AxemJinx's total dissatisfaction with this project so far, I think that maybe he overestimated people's commitment to it. Considering how much the standards have been raised, I'm guessing that a lot of people had absolutely no idea what they were getting into when they made a mad dash to grab a level. In retrospect, may have been better if preliminary "tryouts" were held, where people vying to get a level would have to submit some ideas and content for the level before they were given it. It just seems like the fairest and most efficient way to do it, as even unknown users could get a level that they really had a "feel" for, instead of everyone grabbing what they could get and worrying about the details after they got it.
On a more positive note, what little I have seen of SMWCP2 suggests that it will be a top-quality hack. One thing that people have to realize is for that to happen, it will require a lot of frustrating trial and error in terms of who gets levels, and will take a very long time. This has already been proven; the levels that are completed and have been accepted seem to be exactly the quality that they should be, and it makes it worth all the frustration.
On the other hand, AxemJinx dropping out... isn't what I was hoping for. To brutally honest, the levels in this hack probably wouldn't have been nearly as good without his insightful feedback and zero tolerance for bullshit. Still, I think that as long as people make some effort to help SMWCP2 in some way, whether by designing levels, composing music, drawing graphics, coding blocks, sprites, and patches, or giving constructive criticism and suggestions, it will turn out to be something that this community can be proud of.
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| Posted on 2011-08-15 01:21:31 PM |
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AxemJinx is also just one person. As invaluable as his feedback was, and as much as everyone appreciated it (including myself), if it was simply him commenting and nobody else, then the hack would have pretty much been made specifically for him. I think people tend to forget that at least a half dozen other people are also repeatedly offering feedback (and as of late, others such as Slit08 and tatanga have jumped in too, which is awesome).
The remaining 50 levels will still turn out just as good as the first 30, simply because at this point, all of the people who AREN'T devoted to the project have been filtered out. 95% of the level threads are now being posted in once a week at the absolute least, so I have complete and total faith that this will end up just like we wanted it to.
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| Posted on 2011-08-15 01:47:00 PM |
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Yeah, maybe I got a little carried away with my rant  .
Anyway, I will also try to give feedback as best I can from now on. I wasn't confident enough in my level-designing ability to grab a level when they were available, but I still want to help any way I can. I really can't wait to play this when it's finished, it looks like it will be a blast . 
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Forum Index - Events - SMW Central Production 2 - Dawn of the Final Day |
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