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| World 9 Boss: Dreamer - OPEN [GFX] OPEN[ASM] |
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Forum Index - Events - SMW Central Production 2 - World 9 and Boss Threads - World 9 Boss: Dreamer - OPEN [GFX] OPEN[ASM] |
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| Posted on 2012-02-21 11:26:53 AM |
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I think we should have separate thread for each phase.
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| Posted on 2012-02-21 11:29:03 AM |
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It would make at least 5 more threads to be created, I think it's not necessary.
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| Posted on 2012-02-21 11:30:17 AM |
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Agh. My apologies for woefully neglecting this thread and the project in general as of late, but I've been traveling again for the past few weeks (and will continue to be doing so until the end of the month--admittedly no longer that far away), and made the foolish but necessary decision to continue working while doing so, which means I've largely been too exhausted otherwise to do much else (and when I have a touch of free time where I'm not exhausted, my first urge tends to be to use that to get a bit of extra work done). But no matter.
Anyway...I've got to admit, I've had difficulties thinking about how the idea as I proposed it could really be properly integrated with the idea of the Dreamer. As noted, they seem to approach World 9 from two very different angles. What I consider the fundamental qualities of the idea as I proposed it were the following:
1) World 9 is not an illusion, deception or mirage of any sort. This was something I considered important, as too many games tend to insist on reining in any sort of unusual and creative environments, insisting that they don't properly exist or otherwise cheapening them.
2) World 9 does not cease to exist after Mario is done screwing with it, it simply changes in such a way (and it has, after all, be changing the whole time), that he can no longer retain a foothold there; the world continues on, just without Mario.
Now, let's think. We have the idea of a person who can make her subconscious thoughts real, and we have the idea of a universe constantly in flux, which Team Norveg is trying to channel into desired concrete firms for their ideal exploitation. How do we synthesize these ideas?
Well, here's one possible train of thought. We have a person with subtle psycho-kinetic abilities. Nothing too overwhelming, nothing conscious. But subtle, unconscious. Her dreams and unspoken, perhaps non even properly realized considered fears and desires have a certain way of manifesting themselves in the world around here. This frightens people, so they lock her away. Away in a place where she can't affect anything at all. Outside of the universe itself. In a small pocket dimension.
What is this dimension like? Completely, utterly different from ours. Fluid. Chaotic. Exuberant. A place where the rules as constantly changing and evolving, where the very fabric of existence is never the same from one moment to the next. All very random, uncontrollable. But not, of course, impossible to influence.
Enter the Dreamer. A person who could subtly, unconsciously influence the world immediately around her--and this in our too, too solid and slowly changing world. And if she were introduced into a place where reality is not merely far more easily alterable, but change is in fact the very name of the game? A perfect primorial canvas for such an unintended artist?
Hoo lordy.
So we now have someone who can mold reality in a place where reality lends itself especially well to being molded. But there's still an element of chaos to this. The Dreamer is, in effect, still asleep (her people assured that she would be so when they banished her, so avoid any sort of resistance). The world around her now assumes a more recognizable physical form (from our perspective), but it's still the sort of loose free association normally provided by the unconscious mind. And so it remains until Norveg Industries show up.
Now here's the point where I think the ideas may actually aid each other surprisingly well. I've repeatedly cited the idea of Norveg and crew developing a device for influencing the nature of the dream world into their desired forms, though I've always been a bit vague about how it might work. With the Dreamer, however, we actually get a concrete underlying principle of operation. To wit: our fiends attempt to influence the nature of World 9 by developing a complex device into which the Dreamer herself is integrated, in an attempt to directly influence her thoughts and dreams, and thereby the physical nature of World 9. This is a vague and inexact sort of business, and prone to interference, as thoughts and dreams in general tend to be, but it was something they were making progress on to a considerable degree before Mario came and cocked it all up. Which brings us to the final stage.
Mario's destruction of the Norwegian Dream Anti-Therapy Device post Deedle-battle has not only the effect of breaking our villains control on the dimension, the shock also starts to slowly wake up the Dreamer. As such, the dimension slowly starts shifting back to its normal fluid and abstract form, all semblances of the world as we know it dissolving, much like a dream as one slowly awakes. The Dreamer herself, on the other hand, reacts against this, like a sleeper shifting about and swatting at some annoyance trying to wake them up. Any sort of final battle with the dreamer may be thought of as Mario's final attempts to shake her awake, whereupon the last final shackles holding this dimension in a form vaguely resembling our own solid world are shaken off, and the two of them are both forcefully ejected to the normal world as world 9 itself, returned to its primordial form, speeds onward into the distance in its own ecstatic throes and merry caperings.
And perhaps that's a way we really could have everything, as suggested above.
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| Posted on 2012-02-21 11:50:38 AM |
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simply put. The dreamer was locked somewhere and started to change shapes around her. Norveg then tryes to manipulate this world using the dreamer, and ventures inside this world.
Deedle ball is in charge of the "dream" world mission. He is defeated.
Then enters the dreamer's role. Where Mario will try to wake her up, and then she starts to try finish Mario.
Well, I guess It's good. But theres some things I'd like to note.
-I guess it's a good idea that the dreamer is not locked into any other dimension. It sounds cliche. As i said before, tie her to a tree would be a better idea. As i see it's simple, and adds to the sense of nature the hack have.
-The idea before says she died and starts to sleep for eternity. We can change it, say she's alive, just sleeping and such. But i guess this idea is somewhat interesting. Just something to note.
-I guess she would not attack Mario because he's trying to wake her up, or something like that. but as Mario ventures inside this world of dreams and cause some kind of havoc while fighting norveg's army. This makes the dreamer see Mario as some nightmare, then she starts to make her feelings more clear (The Ex Level starts) using them against the "nightmare". Just an idea.
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| Posted on 2012-02-21 12:01:56 PM |
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SO...basically....the dreamer is Sleeping Beauty on drugs?
I like <3
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| Posted on 2012-02-21 12:18:02 PM |
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So the dreamer sees mario as a threat, ok, and deedleball will be in the mix too?
Anywho, I am really liking the way the whole world 9 story is developing, especially the idea of having diferent segments have diferent emotions.
Also, shouldn't we be thinking of posible boss attacks and stuff, in adition to the story?
In adition, what would the are where the battle takes place be like?
Also, for the "sadness" part, why not have it be a post-apocaliptic-ish theme to it, as if the world was destruyed by norveg, peach died of age in some metalic cage, and stuff like that.
Edit:
Just curiosity, why is the dreamer female?
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| Last edited on 2012-02-21 12:21:49 PM by xlk. |
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| Posted on 2012-02-21 12:57:09 PM |
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I've finally woke up after like 6 hours of sleep and whoa more action in the last 6 hours than anything normally o_O.
But anyways, I can do the creation of the threads. @SNN Thanks! we'll use 13B as it doesn't conflict with any other level. I think there probably should be 6 for now (we can add more later if necessary) 5 total for each of the different emotions, and 1 for the general ideas/questions/comments/storyline etc.
@GSG you can be the co-facilitator. For my part, I probably will oversee most of the work for this level, 13B, as well as create the ASM (so long as it's not cluster sprites) needed for that level - that includes blocks and sprites. I have a few people to talk to about this level so I'd like them to participate too (I better do it soon, this thread just got a lot of stuff in a short amount of time - which is good). Let me know which parts everyone is more inclined to work on.
TomPhanto already talked about the Perplex state.
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| Last edited on 2012-02-21 12:58:44 PM by cstutor89. |
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| Posted on 2012-02-21 01:22:46 PM |
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Originally posted by LudusI guess it's a good idea that the dreamer is not locked into any other dimension. It sounds cliche. As i said before, tie her to a tree would be a better idea. As i see it's simple, and adds to the sense of nature the hack have.
The tree idea is very mythical and poetic, and I do like it in principle, but the problem is it makes World 9 seem a little too divorced from the rest of the game. The reason I suggested World 9 as a dimension in flux rather than a literal dream is because a) I've grown a little too attached to it to have it turn out be "fake" or cease to exist, and b) it ties into the idea of Norveg intruding into pristine environments and trying to bend them to his own ends, and Mario trying to reverse this. I also think it adds a little something to have neither Mario nor the final boss be someone who's "supposed' to be in World 9 to begin with, plus I rather like the idea of ending things with having the (potentially quite violent) forces of nature rushing in to sweep away all of our ultimately rather flimsy works of human artifice, reinforcing the idea of fooling around natural forces we really don't properly know how to control, as much as we may try.
Anyway, here's a silly idea for a cutscene that could begin such a stage as described above:
???: ...huh..ahh...just..let me sleep...a little...longer...zzzz...
A green triangle appear.
Frank: Did ya hear that, guys? The Dreamer's starting to wake up!
A red diamond appears.
Bill: About time. It was fun putting on her plays for a while, but man, that world she comes from is just toooo sloooow. Seriously, how can a person live in a place where it takes so long for anything to change? And when the sphere and crew took over the direction...well, the less said about that, the better.
A blue octagon appears.
Pete: That's not the half of it. Would you believe the reason they banished her here in the first place is because they thought she made things change too much?
The triangle is suddenly gone and the diamond and octagon are now green.
Fill: What a pack of schnauzers. Still, this sort of thing has gone on long enough; it's not helping us or her at this point.
Fete: Right. Time to finish what our friend over there has started.
Mario, continuing his sneeze-propelled journey, flies into view. Both shapes transform into green footprints.
Feet: Hey, there friend! Thanks for giving that Deedle-Dope a good punch in the nose, but do you think you could do us another favor? (The feet divide into five, turn pink) Oh, nothing big, we just need you to help us make a great big racket. It'll be a good bit of craic, I promise. Ready? Let's go!
And thus our final stage, with Mario attempting to awake the Dreamer and restore things to their natural order. I like the idea of her interpreting him as a nightmare and counterattacking, as well as steadily explaining what's going one, though I also think things ought to steadily become more abstract as things go on, marking the shift from dream to pure flux.
As for the conclusion...I could see the dreamer properly waking up, and starting to feel herself slipping out of the stream of the dimension alongside Mario, much to her dismay, as she knows things will only repeat themselves as before if she goes back to the normal world...however, the inhabitants of the dream dimension inform her that this is only happening because she's trying to hard to stay in one place, to be one thing, causing this ever-changing world to slip by her, like a rock in a stream. If he wants to stay here, she needs to relax, disperse, and become part of the flow (hence my emphasizing above that the inhabitants of this dimension, in their natural state, tend to change, merge with each other, split and divide again in new forms). Thus she opts become one with the river of flux, while the slightly more prosaic Mario is flushed back to his proper world. Thoughts?
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| Posted on 2012-02-21 01:34:32 PM |
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I've added the threads for each of the phases now. Discuss each section if needed.
As far as the storyline goes @RN, that's pretty good so far.
Thanks @GSG for adding the parts that I talked about in this thread to their respective thread.
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| Posted on 2012-02-22 07:14:33 AM |
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I'm still with tying her into a tree, but i liked everything else you said.
As in, i got an idea for phase/attacks and such. She would fight Mario with each of her feelings, each with an shape and color. She can be hit at any time, but she have an large amount of HP to hold for so long. Mario can use fire flowers, jump on her, use the cape, use yoshi, or throw things at her, all will do some amount of damage. But it get difficult to hit her with time. She also starts to summom more then 1 feeling at a time.
Ah, each feeling can have so much attacks against Mario, one can invert the controls and dash against Mario. other makes him go slower and jump lower. Happyness can be the one to buff Mario, giving he a random powerup and throwable objects.
We can make each feeling run away from Mario at the end of each level too.
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| Last edited on 2012-02-22 07:48:07 AM by Ludus. |
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| Posted on 2012-02-22 03:30:28 PM |
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I don't see any reason why the Dreamer's sprite couldn't still be depicted tied to a tree even with the above story; it's a good metaphor for the situation, and this is the sort of place where metaphors can take physical form, so why not?
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| Posted on 2012-02-23 12:27:16 PM |
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I can try my hand at drawing a GFX for this. I just wanna know how should he/she/it look like.
EDIT: Also I like more name: "Dreamare
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| Last edited on 2012-02-23 12:29:11 PM by Luigi370. |
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| Posted on 2012-03-04 12:38:10 PM |
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If this isn't claimed yet...
...I want to claim it :3
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| Posted on 2012-03-04 02:00:15 PM |
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Originally posted by Luigi370EDIT: Also I like more name: "Dreamare
I like the name The Dreamer more; it's mysterious, and doesn't sound like a Pokemon.
@MetalJo:
YES! I've seen your works, and it'll be awesome if you do this!
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| Posted on 2012-03-05 03:24:30 PM |
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The dreamer sounds fine to me too.
I didn't follow the whole discussion
(to. much.complicated.english.language)
but are there plans adding some creppy look to the boss? (Not only normal ones)? I always like the absurd weird OR cool looking secret bosses 
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| Posted on 2012-03-06 01:21:38 PM |
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Hey, I want to code this boss ^^
Here is a video of a (not finished) boss I coded just for showing my abilities ^^
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| Last edited on 2012-03-06 01:23:03 PM by MetalJo. |
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| Posted on 2012-03-07 06:37:12 AM |
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Originally posted by Shogbut are there plans adding some creppy look to the boss? (Not only normal ones)?
I'm guessing the dreameris goingtohave a more neutral look, as she manipulates emotions and is sleeping, but I may be wrong...
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| Posted on 2012-03-07 10:56:32 AM |
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Originally posted by xlkOriginally posted by Shogbut are there plans adding some creppy look to the boss? (Not only normal ones)?
I'm guessing the dreameris goingtohave a more neutral look, as she manipulates emotions and is sleeping, but I may be wrong...
I meant it more like a "phase", like first phase nice looking, second phase creepy. (If this makes sense)
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| Posted on 2012-03-07 03:06:31 PM |
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I'm not so sure about that...the preceding stage, EREHPS EHT RAEF, deals with the creepier and more bizarre aspects of dreams pretty heavily already, whereas this stage tends tends to try to address a rather different range of moods (which is not to say there couldn't be any eerie elements in any of those sections, but it's not really the main underlying feeling the player is intended to get out of this stage). As for the boss itself...I think it really ought to strive for more of a mythical feel than anything else. Remember that in the Dreamer's (mis-)interpretation of the situation, Mario is the ghastly nightmare creature invading her thoughts; it'd make far more sense if she presented herself as a sort of grand, goddess-like being who can stand up to and vanquish the nightmarish invader she thinks Mario to be.
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| Posted on 2012-03-07 04:51:29 PM |
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Originally posted by Rameau's NephewI'm not so sure about that...the preceding stage, EREHPS EHT RAEF, deals with the creepier and more bizarre aspects of dreams pretty heavily already, whereas this stage tends tends to try to address a rather different range of moods (which is not to say there couldn't be any eerie elements in any of those sections, but it's not really the main underlying feeling the player is intended to get out of this stage). As for the boss itself...I think it really ought to strive for more of a mythical feel than anything else. Remember that in the Dreamer's (mis-)interpretation of the situation, Mario is the ghastly nightmare creature invading her thoughts; it'd make far more sense if she presented herself as a sort of grand, goddess-like being who can stand up to and vanquish the nightmarish invader she thinks Mario to be.
You sir, just gave me a wonderful idea:
The player will need to collect all SMWCP coins to access The Dreamer (which, I honestly will say should be the name of the phases, like how The Series of Unfortunate Events used alliterations with almost all of its books, except for the last one [Bad Beginning, Reptile Room, Wide Window, Miserable Mill, Austere Academy, Ersatz Elevator, Vile Village, Hostile Hospital, Carnivorous Carnival, Slippery Slope, Grim Grotto, Penultimate Peril, and...The End])
Anywho, we could pass of the Deedle-Ball as the final boss, when it isn't. (If we have EREHPS EHT RAEF as the last level).
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Forum Index - Events - SMW Central Production 2 - World 9 and Boss Threads - World 9 Boss: Dreamer - OPEN [GFX] OPEN[ASM] |
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