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| World 9 Boss: Dreamer - OPEN [GFX] OPEN[ASM] |
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Forum Index - Events - SMW Central Production 2 - World 9 and Boss Threads - World 9 Boss: Dreamer - OPEN [GFX] OPEN[ASM] |
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| Posted on 2012-03-07 05:39:56 PM |
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The Deedle-Ball is indeed intended as a sort of fake boss, with the idea being that the player, playing through with no foreknowledge, would indeed be fooled into thinking they're headed to a battle with the true extra boss, only to stumble upon non-other than the Self-Obsessed Sphere, resulting in Big Larfs. As such, it might be a good idea to arrange the overworld so that EREHPS EHT RAEF initially looks as though it is indeed the true final level, with stage 13B (which I'd still recommend calling "Life is but a...") appearing afterwards as a sort of unexpected step-to-the-side, which rather suits the level thematically as well, I think.
The idea of needing all SMWC coins to access the Dreamer (or better yet, the entirety of 13B) has indeed been floated around, though there remains the question of how exactly to implement such an idea. Which is why, as various designers working on this level has suggested (and as I made a more detailed post discussuin in the general discussion thread, it would really be a good idea to get on the same page concerning how we wish to organize things in this level.
Or are you rather proposing that if the player doesn't have all of the SMWCP coins, EREHPS EHT RAEF would very genuinely be the last stage from their viewpoint, with the player instead getting a silly joke ending upon defeating the Deedle-Ball, and a message along the lines of "Now try to find all of the SMWC coins!", or something of that nature?
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| Posted on 2012-03-07 07:33:59 PM |
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We could go with that. Of course when all the levels are finished, there's going to be a thread for which levels should be arranged where. Though right now, I would say your level should definitely be the last one before the Dreamer.
But nonetheless, I have heard that the plan is to make the last level only available after getting all the SMWC coins.
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| Posted on 2012-03-07 08:53:23 PM |
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There seems to be some lack of clarity on that point, actually (which again is why we really ought to come to an agreement on things etc.). Up until quite recently, the official idea was that SMWC coins would be used only for bonuses, the idea of them unlocking the last stage only resurfacing fairly recently, with no absolute agreement on the point. Personally, I'm of two minds on the issue; on the one hand, I can see the appeal of having an extra-special stage only accessible when you get the coins; on the other hand, I can see how some players might find it tedious to hunt down every single coin (a few of which designers, despite many exhortations not to do so, have hidden in a somewhat...annoying manner), and at least the (also by no means officially accepted) framework story I proposed for the final level, sort of continues fairly directly from the end of EREHPS EHT RAEF, so having the player potentially having to engage in a hunt between these two stages (assuming they haven't been getting all of the coins as they play each stage) could really ruin the flow and momentum of the World.
Two possible alternative would be to have a certain number of coins needed to enter World 9 in the first place (be it all of those located in the main game, or a smaller number in the event that we don't want to outright require the player to get every single one), and/or to allow the player to play through all stages including 13B without getting all the coins, and to be able to fight the bonus boss and get the real bonus ending, but to have a silly epilogue as a little bonus for those who do want to get all of the coins (a popular idea suggested in the past, most notably in the form of a dance party featuring various significant characters throughout the game). Honestly, I think that might be a better approach than requiring all of the coins simply to play the last stage/get the real ending, but that's a thing for the masses to decide on.
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| Posted on 2012-03-08 11:28:16 AM |
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I vote for the bonus ending idea. I think having to collect every single SMWCP coin just to play that one level is a bit unfair.
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| Posted on 2012-03-08 12:21:05 PM |
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Originally posted by NeutronI vote for the bonus ending idea. I think having to collect every single SMWCP coin just to play that one level is a bit unfair.
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| Posted on 2012-03-31 12:11:19 PM |
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Originally posted by MetalJoHey, I want to code this boss ^^
Here is a video of a (not finished) boss I coded just for showing my abilities ^^
Hey is MetalJo coding this boss? Because I'll add him/her into the Credits list for now.
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| Posted on 2012-03-31 02:34:45 PM |
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Not sure. PM him and find out if he still wants to do it.
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| Posted on 2012-04-01 12:34:03 PM |
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Originally posted by Ersani0Not sure. PM him and find out if he still wants to do it.
He wants do it...
...
...and are you Lightvayne?
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| Posted on 2012-04-14 09:28:41 AM |
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So the tl;dr version I got from this thread so far is that we have not decided on anything about how exactly this boss is going to work. We need to come up with at least a list of attacks so MetalJo (if he still wants it) can begin working on this.
Originally posted by Giant Shy Guy
...and are you Lightvayne?
I dunno what your talking about.
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| Last edited on 2012-04-14 09:30:02 AM by Lightvayne. |
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| Posted on 2012-04-14 10:50:16 AM |
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IMO the level where you battle the boss should change acording to diferent feelings wich would be cycled through randomly and faster as the boss is closer to being defeated.The ground/level should also slowly vanish as the boss is being defeated.The feeling woud also determine what attacks can be posibly used, those attacks lasting for some time(eg not an explosion or projectile, but more like a chain reaction of explosions or homing projectiles).
-sadness(blue-purple) can be some sort of limiting attack, maybe like a buble that latches onto mario, slowing him down.
-Happines(yellow) could be a projetile that darts twoards mario, and sudenly stops and shoots 4 fireballs(like a red elite koopa), and repeats 3 times or so.
-Mischief(orangered) should dash away from mario, throw some sort 88of explosive at him, and repeat 3 times or so
-confusion(blue/cold green)Should wander around randomly, and if it tuches mario, should inver controls.
-anger(blood red)Should dash twoards mario and spawn a sumobrother lightning.
These, of course, are just my ideas.
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| Posted on 2012-04-14 01:22:36 PM |
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This post is about hurting the boss.
One of the things I never see utilized by bosses is Mario's ability to spin jump. Look at how this boss needs to be dashed before you can fight it.
Look at how the ability to throw is utilized in this awesome boss. It isn't just throw and the boss gets hurt - the player needs to earn the thing he throws, and even so, throwing it doesn't hurt the boss, you still have to dash it (or spin jump in this context)
Also, if we can avoid it, I would not like Mario suddenly getting a health bar here. I'm fine with Norveg's battle, but I don't really think we should give Mario one, when we can smartly implement power-ups throughout it.
Speaking of smartly implementing, throughout all Mario games, and throughout all Zelda games, items of of every variation are "needed" to defeat a boss. If we can somehow smartly use Triangles (and maybe even the upsidedown ones), Springboards, P-Switches, On/Off (no, not another Deedle-Ball...although, The Dreamer could possibly dream of one?), and other things to our advantage. The arena is much as part as the boss, if you take a look at how boss arenas are made throughout any Mario game.
We could possibly use the falling rock generator to hurt the boss; maybe have one of the boss dreams to home on Mario and Mario has to get it under one of the falling generators?
The triangles can be use to jump off from walls to stomp on one of the boss' dreams' head. The P-Switch can be used to trap a boss with a bob-omb or something. The On/Off...we can utilize Nexus Norvegicus' laser here, maybe...if it we can somehow not get the laser to destroy the boss.
I don't know. I just want to see something different - and fun - for once. Megadmin and SNN were fun in their own little ways, but I've got to say they we're pretty disappointing, just constant avoidance and catch and throw in a pattern. (I know both bosses are simply coded)
But anywho, I'm not asking for anything huge, just smart uses of what abilities Mario has - his power-ups - and what Lunar Magic (and the blocks section) provides us, an array of things that can be used in a boss fight.
Plus, we can't have a disappointing boss in an experimental level, right?
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| Last edited on 2012-04-14 01:25:06 PM by Punk Sarcophagus. |
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| Posted on 2012-04-14 06:49:17 PM |
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Speaking of how to damage the boss...at least in the cutscenes I proposed earlier, it is the tree the Dreamer is tied to (dubbed a "somnus tree") which is actually keeping her asleep, and, in turn, contained in this world. Thus, I think it would be interesting if during this battle, Mario did not need to attack the Dreamer herself, but rather the tree (upon whose destruction the Dreamer will awaken), which has the interesting effect of demonstrating that Mario's goal here is not actually a hostile one (he is, in a sense, attempting to free the Dreamer--even though that's not something she particularly wants in the circumstances).
I also like the idea suggested above of having a more non-standard way of damaging the boss that jumping or throwing something. It definitely seems well in line with the stage here and the world in general.
Also, when I imagine this battle in my head, I sort of see there being no floor or anything, but instead having Mario (and the Dreamer) instead flying through the void, with perfect three dimensional movement (something which also fits in with the idea of the familiar rules of reality ceasing to apply, as suggested earlier in the stage). Anyone else get a similar image here...?
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| Posted on 2012-04-15 04:59:50 AM |
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I also imagined mario flying, but only TASers could pull it off, as cape flying in limited space is horribly hard, or we could have mario get "the power of the shape people" to put him at the same level as the dreamer, allowing him to fly, have more resistance/power etc.
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| Posted on 2012-04-15 09:56:01 AM |
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I seem to be getting the vibe of swimming in the air.
But if we are 'flying through the void', then how would we damage a tree, which, as far as i know, it the farthest thing from a changing rule-less dream world?
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| Posted on 2012-04-15 10:16:27 AM |
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The tree could always be on some sort of floating rock, or have the dreamers "spirit" come out or something.
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| Posted on 2012-04-15 10:38:28 AM |
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Floating rock sounds good to me; it's like a floating island in miniature, and the kids love their floating islands. As for "attack the tree", the Dreamer would, of course, still be tied to the tree, and would still be attacking Mario herself; my suggesting would simply be that Mario's own target is the tree itself, not the person tied to it, despite her being the one attacking him.
As for Mario's style of flight, I suppose I personally imagine a sort of free X and Y movement, like the Skypop, only without all the annoying things like being so slow and unable to turn around, and without any sort of projectiles. Not sure how difficult that would be to do, though.
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| Posted on 2012-04-15 12:22:18 PM |
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Maybe make the movement smoother/allow progresive acceleration.As for damaging the tree, maybe have mario have to move aside the dreamer with an attack/make her NOT protect it and then attack the tree.
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| Posted on 2012-04-15 02:11:09 PM |
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I like the idea of Mario flying...but it would up as another avoid, and catch and throw. We'll be taking out Mario ability to jump, spin jump, run up walls, and other stuff.
I'm fine with it happening only at the last minute, but I say we shouldn't mess with Mario physics right away - I'm fine with it at the end as some sort of last minute power by the tree, but I would like to have Mario fight this guy using what he has what is around him.
This is still a Mario game.
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| Posted on 2012-04-15 02:37:49 PM |
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Then how about having the ground fall off into the void in the last fase of the boss, along whith the altered phisics?
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| Posted on 2012-04-17 07:24:29 PM |
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i'm not sure how possible this would be.. but perhaps instead of in game reality breaking down through out the fight.. perhaps instead the fourth wall breaks down though the tree screwing with the genre of the game through out the fight? heres a quick example to show what i mean
phase 1: appears to be your run of the mill platformer fight that seems dissapointingly easy. a simple throw block and the tree in the back ground trying to attack you. simply throw the block into the tree. ( or perhaps another gong?) to finish the phase with everything appearing to glitch out into a pixelated mess.
phase 2: the pixels phase back into a coherent form but now the game has changed into a zelda style adventure game. ( still mario vs the dreamer/tree though) mario must search a small maze of rooms to locate a fire flower then hit the tree with 3 fire balls before the screen once agian gos pixelated, signaling phase 3
phase 3: now the name of the game is racing. mario is in his cart and must chase down the dreamer through a race track until he grabs a star. at which point tackling the tree once would damage it and send us to phase 4.
phase 4: now we're playing a shump. mario must fire his fireballs into the tree about 10 times while dodging various attacks touhou style.
phase 5: things are back to being a platformer, the tree nearly losing its grip on the dreamer. however now there is no law at all in this land. causing the physics to go balistic and unpredictable.. if you can figure out the puzzle of reaching the dreamer and stepping on her head you break her free, ending the battle.
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Forum Index - Events - SMW Central Production 2 - World 9 and Boss Threads - World 9 Boss: Dreamer - OPEN [GFX] OPEN[ASM] |
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