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| World 9 Boss: Dreamer - OPEN [GFX] OPEN[ASM] |
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Forum Index - Events - SMW Central Production 2 - World 9 and Boss Threads - World 9 Boss: Dreamer - OPEN [GFX] OPEN[ASM] |
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| Posted on 2011-11-08 12:00:38 PM |
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Why would we have Dark Matter as a boss?
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| Posted on 2011-11-08 12:06:58 PM |
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I am completely oblivious as to what you might be talking about.
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| Posted on 2011-11-08 12:14:55 PM |
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The ol' Kirby nemesis, possessor of dreamlanders (especially King Dedede), which even made a subtle cameo in Kirby's Return to Dreamland.
That dark cloud with an Eyeball you just showed looks a lot like Dark Matter:
Or
Or
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| Last edited on 2011-11-08 12:15:33 PM by Magiluigi. |
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| Posted on 2011-11-10 07:04:45 AM |
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I remember months ago that some people suggested the Bonus Magician should be the boss of World 9. I guess you could say this battle could be his final challenge that Mario must accept.
Of course, I'm also very curious as to what this most powerful boss is that Rameau's Nephew always speaks of, so I might as well wait and see.
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| Posted on 2011-11-10 07:19:38 AM |
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Yeah, I'm interested in seeing what Rameau's Nephew has in mind as well, to the point where I almost want to hold off until I see what it is.
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| Posted on 2011-11-11 12:37:42 PM |
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Oh, very well, I suppose now is as good a time as any. In any event, this boss concept ties into some ideas about what World 9 itself is, and how it ties into the main plot, and how the plot of this hack ties into the plot of the previous.
What is World 9?
Not a literal dream, or false reality, or any sort of fake thing, to be certain—that’s far too cheap and unsatisfying, and too similar to the end of the previous Production. Instead, I think it should be a very real pocket dimension, whose nature, however, is fluid and constantly in flux, and which locally adapts itself to the subconscious mind of its occupants. This process, however, is random and uncontrollable, hence the wildly varying settings and moods of the stages, from happy frantic wonderlands to bizarre, twisted nightmares. Ah, but if you could find a way to control it—well, you’d have under your control a source of the purest pleasure or pain, custom-tailorable on an individual basis. The potential here for economic exploitation is endless—you could offer your customers literally anything they ever wanted. At the same, you have in your hands perhaps the greatest psychological weapon ever devised—the ability to assault your enemies with their deepest, most primal fears. To control such a resource would make one the ultimate distributor all all things good and ill, to be handed out however one deems fit--scarcely a step away from godhood.
And it is precisely this resource that Team Norveg was seeking the exploit when Mario brought their operation crashing down (something which could be hinted at vaguely in various parts of the final world, though not too heavy-handedly). And despite their fall, a team is still present in this dream world, continuing their work. A team which has already developed a very crude device to influence the local area of this dimension to a very limited degree in a very small geographic area. A team lead by a very special member among Norveg’s crew.
Who is the leader of this project?
You see, this is not the first such ambitious project Norveg Inc. has attempted. In the past, they sought to create a fully self-aware and autonomous AI—and succeeded, no less. However, it ended up being far too difficult and expensive a project to allow for wide-scale production. What’s more, the resulting AI was not as useful as might have been hoped, and was perhaps a little too self-aware. No, it didn’t rebel. Nor did it strive to wipe out the filthy biologicals--in fact, it was probably delighted to be surrounded by beings it considered inferior to itself. No, it was just completely and utterly full of itself. Self-aware? Mo’ like self obsessed.
But what this AI represented was still very impressive, and a good thing to show off to potential customers in order to impress upon them the capabilities of Norveg’s operation, As such, they kept him around, mostly sending him out as a company representative or on other field operations. So it is in the case of this strange pocket dimension (which again could be vaguely referenced by Norveg or Doc at one point). And so it was when Bowser signed a contract with Norveg’s operation before the events of the previous Production, purchasing large amounts of their reality simulation technology (still a far cry from reality manipulation of course) at a considerable discount, with the agreement that he would at a later date supply Norveg with mercenary troops and military advisers at a comparable discount. I am, of course, talking about Railbot D-DL 8411, better known by its inaccurate, self-assigned nickname of the Spider Guardian, and perhaps known better still as the Deedle-Ball.
And Bowser, whatever flaws he may have, is very good at making people under his command feel important in their own right—see the many puppet monarchs serving under him who nevertheless show loyalty toward him rather than resentment. And the Deedle-Ball, too, felt himself not unlike a god, commanding this hyper-technological fortress high above the earth, forgetting for a moment his double subordination. Then Mario charged in and brought his illusions crashing down, much as he brought the Rolling Rascal himself crashing down to the earth that feeds us all. This, as you may imagine, was the seed of a smouldering grudge.
Fast-Forward to the present. Mario has now destroyed the Deedle-Ball’s parent company as well, likewise cutting off his main source of new resources and additional personnel. But at the same time, he has freed him of subordination to any and all masters. The Deedle-Ball is now unchallenged ruler of his own miniature universe, a small part of which he can at least to a limited degree bend to his own will. And he wills that Mario suffer for his crimes against Deedality.
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This brings us up to the end of my stage. Mario and the Deedle-Ball have an epic confrontation, and if our player playeth true, our hero comes out on top. At present, the stage ends there, with Mario dealing the final blow. But what if instead, it were to lead to a cutscene of the Deedle-Ball plummeting into the depths of the machinery?
Deedle Ball: Whoopsy-daisy! -CRASH, bzzzz- Oh, that's not looking good for the sub-finkulator.-BOOM- Aaaand, there goes the defroobulator. -drip, drip- Agh, cripes, some of the defroobulation fluid got up my nose! Thanks a heap, bub, that really stings! Like snorting an entire wheelbarrow full of weapons grade plutonium (not that I'd know anything about that). Hoooooo dogey, I feel a whopper of a sneeze coming on. Ah...ah...aaaaaah...
CH--
A massive explosion rocks the area,and engulfs everything in white. Mario is thrown skyward, and the level ends, opening a path to the final stage: FEAR THE SPHERE.
As the level begins, a familiar, but now much louder and more menacing voice calls out from the darkness.
Deedle-Ball: Ah, that's better.
The eyes, they say, are windows to the soul. But the nose...It is a door, a portal through which we breathe in those compounds necessary for life, transforming them into an essential part of own beings. Through it, we take in not merely ephemeral, deceptive images, but rather real, tangible things. The eyes may see, but the nose...knows.
So thank you, Mario. You have given me the knowledge of perfection in its purest, most unadulterated form. And I, in turn, shall bequeath you your own special knowledge.
In your travels, you have faced countless opponents, from endlessly persistent warrior kings deep inside their fortresses, to wily industrialists in their ol' factories, to cosmic superbeings in strange interdimensional voids. But all of these had their weaknesses, and all have fallen. Never have you faced a truly unbeatable opponent, never have you known a foe who truly outclassed you in all respects. Now I shall now grant you this honor: allow me to show just what a pro-boss-is. You're a pug-nacious one, oh itinerant warrior, but here your roman comes to an end--an a-bridge-ment, so to speak. Prepare to be BLOWN away, along with the metaphorical lid off this joint, which, as a side effect, will similarly be displaced from its position in the water via a process which coincidentally also shares a name with the exhalation of air through the nostrils! Now tremble before your Superior Nasal Concha-ror! Ha-cha-cha-cha-cha!
The lights the dawn on the final arena. A giant, iridescent disco ball with a truly massive shnozz descends from the top of the screen and sprouts angel-like wings, in the manner of a Final Fantasy boss. A fiery aura forms around it, and the words "BURN, BABY, BURN" appear, whereupon the villain disperses the aura as a volley of fireballs sent off in multiple directions.
So begins the battle with the Ascended Deedle-Ball.
How this battle could conceivably work:
Thus begins a truly epic fight with our proper final boss—The Ascended Deedle-Ball.
How this battle might progress, as presented in the form of a pure flight of fancy with no regard paid to practicality of technical implementation:
Phase 1: In addition to the aforementioned fire attack, the Deedle-Ball teleports around the arena dropping bombs, not dissimilar to his SMWCP2 form, but less ineffectively. He also occasionally breathes in deeply, attempting to inhale Mario in through his nose, and sneeze him out violently. Here the boss is damaged by Mario jumping on him, ideally when he moves in for a swoop, which also ranks among his attacks. After a number of hits, however, the flaming aura returns permanently, making him immune to this form of attack.
Phase 2: Swooping and the Sniff-n-Sneeze attack still rank among the Deedle-Ball’s repertoire, but his other attacks are now replaced with the manipulation of varicolored berries, themselves belonging to the spheroid class, and thus correspondingly having their own flaming auras here. Each color would have its own effect—green would circle about our foe as an expanding shield, red would burst into sumo flames when it hits the ground, and yellow (burnt orange? avacado?) would temporarily infect Mario with the odious malady of Saturday Night Fever, in whose grasp he finds himself compelled to dance uncontrollably in a single direction until he hits a wall, whereupon he changes course. That berry most salient to our hero’s purposes, however, is, in tune with the nature of this world, the most impossible berry of all—that of the azure hue. This berry will ricochet around the room for a bit before finally losing its flaming aura and coming to rest, whereupon Mario may pick it up. He cannot harm the Deedle-Ball with it directly, however--instead he must wait until the orb begins his inhaling attack, whereupon Mario must throw it into the sphere’s nostril, thereby causing it in zany Kaptain-K.-Rool-esque fashion to become lodged inside, precipitating a literally explosive sneeze which does damage our foe. After several repetitions, the fiend will then spew fourth a huge volley of flashing berries in all directions, transform back into the normal Deedle-Ball, flare his nostrils several times in despair, and fall pathetically off screen with an unceremonious “myoot” sound. End.
And if it were somehow possible through some trickery and magic to make Mario wear a leisure suit throughout the duration of this battle, well, that would be all the finer still.
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| Last edited on 2011-11-11 12:40:23 PM by Rameau's Nephew. |
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| Posted on 2011-11-11 01:19:35 PM |
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Genius.
Anyone else agree with this?
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| Posted on 2011-11-11 01:47:38 PM |
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Honestly, I think you're trying too hard, with the whole AI and deedle ball and everything =/
Something like just having bowser show up inside the void for no given(or little) reason would be good enough, IMO.
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| Posted on 2011-11-11 04:02:18 PM |
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Originally posted by SindHonestly, I think you're trying too hard, with the whole AI and deedle ball and everything =/
Something like just having bowser show up inside the void for no given(or little) reason would be good enough, IMO.
I agree 100% with this. No offense Rameau, but there's always point where someone ends up putting too much misplaced effort into something. Your story is one. Use it for the plot of your own hack maybe, because it isn't bad actually, just not for this.
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| Posted on 2011-11-11 05:06:40 PM |
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Oh my god.
I, for one, think it's a fantastic idea. It's completely original, well-rounded and hilarious, and I think it's going to be hard to top such an epic conclusion. I like your explanation for what World 9 really is, as well as its backstory.
Plus, a new Bowser fight just would not cut it in my opinion.
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| Posted on 2011-11-11 05:07:35 PM |
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While the story is a bit much, I feel like an ascended spider-guardian-with-a-nose would make a hilarious and awesome boss for this, due to the struggle it has caused people in many games. It works very well for the faux-secret world and a true final boss. I think it's a great idea.
People gotta stop bein' so serious.
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| Posted on 2011-11-11 05:11:25 PM |
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I find it hilarious too. I have since day one. It's a great throwback to SMWCP, and it really ends the secret world with something memorable as opposed to a generic fight.
Shrug.
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| Posted on 2011-11-11 05:47:37 PM |
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Originally posted by TeylaWhile the story is a bit much, I feel like an ascended spider-guardian-with-a-nose would make a hilarious and awesome boss for this, due to the struggle it has caused people in many games. It works very well for the faux-secret world and a true final boss. I think it's a great idea.
People gotta stop bein' so serious.
Really? I think it's TOO serious, AND overly/unnecessarily complex. :/ I think the idea is interesting, but I'd be expecting something a little...different. Instead of being all "hahahaha dragon ascendant!"...well, why do we NEED a story behind it? I don't mind the boss idea itself as much as the story behind it, come to think of it. You could even reduce the story to a simple "Spider Guardian is angry that you beat it. Spider Guardian wants revenge. Spider Guardian gets revenge by becoming Mario's worst nightmare. Literally." and then I'd be fine with it. Do we REALLY have to make this boss's existence make sense, and be really serious about it? It's a dream world- wouldn't that normally lend itself to something surreal, unexpected, and completely un-serious? (I forget the opposite to serious.)
just my two cents
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| Posted on 2011-11-11 07:11:51 PM |
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Originally posted by TeylaPeople gotta stop bein' so serious.
This statement assumes this is not one of the most serious hacks in the history of this site.
This statement assumes this is not a ridiculously over-complicated and over-established boss for the bonus dream world of said hack.
First of all, World 9 being a dream dimension or dimension isn't unsatisfying at all. After a whole hack full of the Industry VS Nature plot (because this is in fact a romhack, which are epic tales that rival that of award winning hollywood directors) it's nice to get a nice world, cut off from the rest of the game, made of pure fun, no plot to drag you down or anything. The final boss would've been good enough if it were abstract art or one of them Final Fantasy SuperBosses, or whatever they're called. I'm even fine if Deedle-Ball was the final boss if you didn't give so much unnecessary backstory. The amount of serious and genuine effort put into the backstory of the boss of this one wacky and all over the place world is just far too ridiculously high.
And that'd have to be my problem with this whole hack in it of itself. It's too serious. Now, I'm one of the people that hated SMWCP's wacky and immature nature, and the whole "unmonitored" development the hack had, that was just going too far, and ended up being too silly to the point where it was, in fact, a bad thing. Not a bad hack per say, just you could feel the lack of effort put into it. This hack's main problem, for me at least, is the immense amount of effort put into it. The epic plot of industrialization and the environment, the incredibly strict monitoring of levels. I mean, the levels in this hack don't exactly have any levels that stand out or seem out of place in any way. Like there wasn't any level in World 1 where you're inside of a giant tree that has gears spinning in it, and it would've been like a cool half steam punk tree type thing, pretty much every level in world 1 was either a grassland, industrial, or both put together. Same thing with other worlds. World 2's most original level was Riolu's, solely because of the giant flowers. World 3 had fairly original levels for what it's worth, like I mentioned ages ago it pretty much did end up being a reskinned grassland, with the exception of 2 or 3 temple levels. Out of all of World 4, only Crocodilian Crossing and Scorching Sepulcher seemed truly interesting. World 5 does not suffer this, with a theme like Carnival, I think it's nice to see everyone's different interpretation of it, and pretty much every level stands out in that world. For World 6, I guess everyone knew that at least 1 person was going to do a cloud level, so they went with something else. Good. World 7 had a very restricting theme to it, pretty much having 3 levels for each type of level, Fire, Ice, both. Only problem is, every Fire and Ice level used the foreground graphics I drew, with my level being the only one that had grey rocks instead of brown, and is the only level to use the factory graphics I spent forever working on (Seriously guys?). But whatever, aside from that, all the fire levels looked unique and different, and all of the ice levels looked unique and different (RAINBOW ICE LEVEL POPSICLE EXTRAORDINAIRE ICE CREAM TIME). World 8 had pretty different levels, as well, and some did stand out a bit. Everything in World 9 stands out, obviously.
You may be thinking, well Pikerchu, for World 5, 6, 7, and 8 you said the levels for what they are worth stand out, that's more than 1/3 of the game. Well, that's the thing, they stand out individually. They follow the theme very, and incredibly strictly. Like I said, world 1 didn't have a mechanical giant tree level, World 2 could have had a level where you swim in the swamp water, keeping attention to your air meter because the water is polluted or contaminating. World 3 could have had a level made to look like a festival (Like in some movies where there's a festival going on in China Town and the good guy chases the bad guys trying not to catch the attention of everyone). World 4 could have had a bramble level but with Cacti in the desert, or a level where there was an oil spill in the ocean. World 5 could have had a level where you are so high up in the sky, you have to avoid going too far up, otherwise you'd leave the atmosphere and die from lack of oxygen (like a level with lava, just on the ceiling). World 7 could have had a level that had ice that melted into lava or something I don't know, it's such a weird theme to be creative on. World 8 could have had a level where you avoid smog on the rooftops of the factories. For a Mario Romhack, it just seems to make too much sense than it should. It's like fanfiction that took more than 5 minutes to write. And we're talking about a story that involves a rat taking over the world with industrialization.
Somehow, even the concept of something as crazy and wacky as Deedle-Ball of all things, pretty much loses its craziness and wackiness when you go and explain the hell out of it and give it back story. Even Nintendo had the mind to put a grassland in the middle of the Ice World in Mario 3. It was out there and a lot of people remember it because their first reaction was pretty much "Nintendo knew about Global Warming before it was a thing!" or just pretty much "What is this doing here?" And is Deedle-Ball supposed to be a spider or a nose? These posts keep confusing me. And how exactly is Deedle-Ball a throwback to the original production? If it is, then it is one obscure as hell throwback.
I imagine someone is going to reply saying I should stop having opinions on things, or that I should just shut up for once. But this is just my opinion, if you don't agree, fine, if you do, fine. It doesn't affect anyone in any way.
Also, totally unrelated, but Remix 6 in Rhythm Tengoku is my favorite. Next to Remix 2. Remix 5 is my least favorite. I'm pretty sure Riolu is referring to the DS Version, but I don't care, it's not like you're going to read this.
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| Last edited on 2011-11-11 07:22:55 PM by Pikerchu13. |
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| Posted on 2011-11-11 07:52:07 PM |
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This is one of those times where I feel a joke that's funny should stay what it is, a joke. That's what this idea was from day 1 it was created, unless RN led everyone on a path he devised using mind control devices over the internet. I don't mind a bit of cilia now and then, I remember the first time I saw the idea in action and laughed pretty good, but this is just too much. It's like watching terminator and seeing that in the end that care bears came to join the terminator to killing the connor line with their care bear blast. Plus the entire existence of why deedeedeedle-ball is the final boss just feels shoe-horned in, with a shovel and lots of determination.
If we wanted silly, why not make a Rainbow Mushroom boss that has a technorave palette and fires a mix of super, mini, poisen mushrooms using cluster sprite to have spray. It could float around while the BG is swinging side to side with HDMA and less some subtle palette rolling. Why is it a rainbow mushroom, Luigi summons the spirits of all the food items Mario ate to fight him.
(Do we really want a throwback to SMWCP too guys, I mean, if we wanted one, why not make an anime-styled (read: super detailed kinda humanized) lulu-buu boss coming to haunt Mario's dreams and he his soul with the power of partying.)
So, I'm going to side with Sind and Pikerchu on this one, not because of my robot Mario idea being hated on by those who raise nose to the sky, it's just way TOO out there to be comfortable. Like I said, it's funny but not the right amount.
I'm also terrible at being a comedian, but that's why I'm caption obvious.
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| Posted on 2011-11-11 10:09:48 PM |
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Originally posted by GNwell-rounded
Oh, but you are a wicked one indeed. The Deedle-Ball would be proud.
Originally posted by Riolu180 You could even reduce the story to a simple "Spider Guardian is angry that you beat it. Spider Guardian wants revenge. Spider Guardian gets revenge by becoming Mario's worst nightmare. Literally."
I would actually generally agree with this, and you'll notice no more explanation than that is actually given in the cutscenes I've showed themselves. Why, then bother with hinting at a pseudo-serious and semi-cliché backstory beforehand? Basically, I intended it as an elaborate form of misdirection. Unlike in the above presentation, when the player is hearing all of this nonsense about AIs and the like (which would be delivered in a rather more vague and mysterious manner), they would have no idea it's referring to our Well-Rounded Wicked One, but instead think we're leading them down a very different path, culminating with a showdown with an out-of-control supercomputer in traditional hackneyed fashion. And then they get to the end, and BAM: Deedle Ball. With a nose.
But I can see how that might seem like a little too elaborate a setup to the punchline, as simply having the Deedle-Ball as the bonus boss in first place is quite a bit of a rug-pull in any event. I do very much agree with the notion that the Deedle-Ball is the Deedle-Ball and needs no further explanation, and I'd have no objection if folks think things work better if we leave it at that. Simplicity is sometimes the better course.
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| Last edited on 2011-11-11 10:29:32 PM by Rameau's Nephew. |
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| Posted on 2011-11-11 10:49:21 PM |
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First of all, a disclaimer:
I know I'm new, that this is only my second post, and I am completely and utterly aware that I've minimal hacking experience and have contributed ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to this collab hack, but I have an idea.
I've been prowling scanning these forums and threads for a while and have amassed an amount of knowledge on this hack. Here is my proposal:
(Cutscene begins)
As Mario finds himself even deeper inside the nightmare, he finds the very ending rift and thread of the subconscious horror. Incessantly out of curiosity, he jumps off of the edge and instantly 'wakes up' from the dream. He finds himself shocked in the middle of a crater on the ruins of an industrialization, atop the plains of a grassland. It starts to rain. Mario gets to his feet, but is instantly struck unconscious by a gigantic boulder hitting him on the head.
The level ends. This opens way to the true final boss, derivative of the term 'enemy within'.
(New cutscene begins)
???: Ah, hello Mario. Nice for me to find you dreaming. I've been burrowing through your mind for the last while. You have memories of me in the very pits of your subconscious, but the recognition of me voice should bring me frontline.
Norveg: That's better.
You may wonder why I'm here. The reason of course, you miserable rapscallion, is revenge. How? Well, I've had part of my own mind transferred to yours through an invisible laser made and fired at you by Doctor Croc. If either of us were to be eliminated, I'd have a last resort. Crazy, we may think such, but worth it in the right way.
You have unknowingly provided me with a canvas to paint my plot. It is? Simple, I will destroy your physical being by taking control of you mentally. With your carcass out of the way, you'll only exist within the dreamscape, and these lands will be unable to protect from whatever befalls them. You didn't expect me to use you as a workslave to refurbish my empire, did you?
Time is wasting, tick-tock, tick-tock.
(Cutscene ends)
Mario wakes up in the crater. There is a short platforming section now. Hazards are everywhere and at any given time, Norveg may take control. The player must mash buttons to remove him. Mario makes it to a destroyed cabin with a bed, goes to sleep, and the final battle begins.
Again, I know I'm new, this is only my second post, and that I've contributed NOTHING, repeat, NOTHING to this collab. But this was my proposal. No-one has to accept.
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| Posted on 2011-11-12 11:18:30 AM |
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About R's N's huge boss-plot idea, that sounds all neat and great and creative and I don't really have any complaints about it, but how are you planning on letting the player know of that huge plot?
I can't imagine any way to do that other than with tons of cutscenes (or similar), which is, as we all know, what we have been trying to avoid from the get-go and WILL annoy quite a lot of players that aren't out on playing a hack with a huge overarching story and all that shit.
So yeah if you can find a reasonable approach for that, all the power to you.
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| Posted on 2011-11-12 11:47:30 AM |
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If I can help you out I saw a boss from a hacked smb1 8-bit here. A giant boss can be a great thing for a dream world. I don't know, I've given my idea. May this boss's coding would be MUCH MUCH difficult(don't ask it to me, I don't know a s**t of ASM. I only gave you my idea).
What do you think?
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| Posted on 2011-11-13 06:45:59 AM |
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While I do admire your creatvity there Rameau's Nephew, I have to agree that the Deedle Ball just sounds a little too much like a joke taken too far. Using that World 5 boss from SMWCP1 feels like a lame throwback in my opinion, it's unnecessarily random, and the idea of turning it into some bizzare superboss is just absurd. While we're at it, why not toss in a giant Shy Guy with LAZOR EYES?!
When I pictured a potential boss for the extra World 9, I imagined something kind of like the Nightmare Wizard from Kirby's Adventure, or some other interdimensional being posessing power over dreams and the abstract. I'm pretty sure we can come up with something more creative than a wall-riding robot from the last Production that somehow achieved godmode.
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