 |
|
 |
|
| Plot Discussion Thread |
|
Forum Index - Events - SMW Central Production 2 - Plot Discussion Thread |
|
|
|
|
| Posted on 2012-01-27 10:22:29 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
Because there is currently no known thread about this topic, it was suggested to create one.
The main plot has been pretty much made; Norveg and his occupation of the "SMWCP2 world" (We need names for the worlds...) to industrialize it.
This thread is for the bits and pieces, or the "rising action" in terms of actual story plots. This is also for the "climax" of the story; what happens after Norveg is defeated?
Discuss anything here (as long as it contributes).
~
Some notable things:
Kipernal's Cutscene Idea
Originally posted by KipernalJust a random idea I had for the cutscenes that would play upon entering each world: a short gag that would occur with Luigi always ending up as the butt of the joke, followed by a pan across the landscape.
World 9 Boss Discussion
|
| Last edited on 2012-01-27 10:39:30 PM by Punk Sarcophagus. |
|
| Posted on 2012-01-27 11:00:50 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
A quick reminder:
Originally posted by FirePhoenix- Norveg's personality is plain evil.
- His goals/motivations are purely monetary.
- He doesn't care about what happens to the environment as long as he gets money, leading to him making oil rigs, factories, stip mining, etc.
- Bowser is on vacation in the beach world, should show as a cameo in a level or even have his own beachhouse for a level.
- Bowser's minions are on loan to Norveg as mercenaries, explaining their presence if Bowser is not the main enemy.
- Peach is only appears in the introduction, and never gets kidnapped.
- The pollution from Norveg's operation is beginning to affect the Mushroom kingdom so Peach sends Mario, Luigi and Yoshi to go investigate.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-01-27 11:16:11 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
Suggestion approaching: Grand setting: Mushroom kingdom and neighboring kingdom of Aaa.
intro- Mario, peach, luigi, and yoshi are enjoying themselves by a lake one day. Luigi decides do go for a swim, and immediately returns butt naked, due to his clothes dissolving in the water. Suddenly, an explosion rakes out, whipping up a storm, and mario falls unconscious.
He awakens in a grand bathtub, with peach nearby. Yoshi has brought the trio to safety, with yoshi being treated for pollution. Peach explains she has decreed a lovely reward for the one to hunt down and track down the one responsible. Mario snaps into action with luigi (still naked). Peach wishes him good luck, and says to him "If Bowser has anything to do with this, I give you permission to mount his head on your wall.
World 1 done: After a factory has been reduced to rubble, mario and luigi question what happened. Luigi points out a corrupted toad town in the distance. (Mario: WHOA!!! What happened? It looks like a bad future from sonic cd?) They resist their temptation to go back, as they figure it would be best to stop the flood first, then clean up the water.
World 2: As they prepare to iniatiate a self-destruct sequence, a rat appears, introducing himself as norveg. He hints at his major plan, and says not to worry. He peprmits them to go ahead, as they have mined all the resources of the area, causing enough damage. Luighi asked why would he want to do anything to the area, but the rat labels the two "The filthy ones." He also warns them he has massive expertise with explosives on his side. He leaves the boss of the world behind as he escapes, tricking the mario bros somehow with reverse psychology.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-01-27 11:18:10 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
|
Norveg can't show up at the end of World 2-3. It'll either have to be at the end of 1 or the beginning of 4.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-01-28 02:31:24 AM |
Link | Quote |
|
I've actually been thinking about this for a while now. A few ideas I've been throwing around--
Firstly, I think that Norveg should not be seen before World 8, only referenced by his subordinates and the like. Doc, on the other hand, should make several personal appearances before then; I generally imagine Norveg to be a sort of reclusive, calculating mastermind, with the more eccentric but oddly charismatic Doc acting as a sort of public relations figurehead, appear before the public as a sort of (twisted amoral version of a) "crazy uncle" figure in an attempt to dull public opposition to his activities. After all, folks may disapprove of an aloof, dispassionate robber baron, but how can you dislike wacky ol' Doc? He's a great fun at parties.
I have no opposition to the idea of the dialogue-free world intro cutscenes (I found the forest one pretty amusing) but they seem to be more along the lines of establishing the mood of the world than plot movement per se (I also admit I'm a bit ambivalent about having Luigi follow Mario around again doing nothing, like the useless baggage he is). Nevertheless I think a good idea might to be have relatively short cutscenes before the bosses (ideally which only play once unless the stage is beaten and re-entered), which could help give the bosses a bit more personality and connection to the plot than the weird, arbitrary and out-of-place bosses we tended to have in the first production.
Anyway, what the general content of the cutscenes might possibly consist of:
Intro: I think it might be interesting to beginning with a PR-based ad spot starring Doc, wherein he attempts (perhaps not 100% convincingly) to portray Norveg Industries and its rapid expansion into the Mushroom Kingdom and surrounding countries in a positive, wacky and lovable light. This is contrasted by Mario and friends directly experiencing some of the more detrimental effects of this industrial sprawl, prompting Mario to have a talk with Doc at the local headquarters.
Now, as for the pre-boss scenes:
World 1 (which would be a bit longer than the others, due to its still setting up the plot): Mario meets Doc, who greets him jovially, but quickly becomes evasive when Mario expresses his concerns about the company's rapid expansion, and conveniently remembers that he has an important meeting with the boss man, suggesting Mario take up his concern with their customer service representative, Truntec. He then dons a silly propeller hat and flies away. Mario heads in the indicated direction, and finds, to his confusion, none other than a mechanized tree, who confirms that its functions include not only overseeing general production in the Mushroom Kingdom, upgrading the local flora and fauna, but also customer service (truly a jack of all trades). It then asks that Mario please consent to a mandatory scan so that it may better assist him with his query, and proceeds therewith without waiting for any sort of response. Mario's denim, work boots and facial hair trigger an alarm routine due to their presenting an unacceptable risk of his being a lumberjack (important not only for the survival of the unit, but also representing competition to Norveg's logging activities in the next world), whereupon it designates him a candidate for preemptive extermination.
World 2: Mario is quite surprised to find a dryad in charge of Norveg's deforestation and wetland-contaminating operations in World 2. However, the dryad in question proves to be quite insane, obsessed with the idea that her tree is the most beautiful in all the forest, and all the others are but disgusting mockeries which deserve to be wiped out. This, combined with the previous boss, cause Mario to begin to reevaluate his previously neutral opinion on trees.
World 3: I'll have to get back to you on this one, since this boss isn't terribly fleshed out at present. World 3, though seems on the whole to be less affected by Norvegian influence, and that which exists seems to be extremely recent, so I suppose the boss could be a local figure who is convinced that Norveg's activites are the way of the future (which could potentially tie in the the shifting, changing nature of the boss).
World 4: In contrast, I imagine the Desert Cat to show great indifference to Norveg's activities, and generally have a detached, almost nihilistic viewpoint. This is, after all, someone who hangs out in the ruins of a long gone civilization, and is probably inclined to view life as transient and fleeting, with all things inevitably ending in decay and decline. What does she care if Norveg speeds up the process a bit? In the historical view, it all turns out the same.
World 5: Already discussed somewhat is the boss thread. What we have in World 5 is a carnival which puts on a cheery face, but conceals some less savory aspects lurking behind the facade thanks to true owner. The proposed boss is the carnival barker duck, who fits well into this scheme; he appears in Carnival Capers as a merry sort who invites Mario to take part in a bonus game, and might be worth putting at the beginning of Coaster Calamity as in lieu of the message block so that we get him on both paths, again appearing as a helpful figure (as well as offering some foreshadowing for the boss fight...). The facade is dropped in the final level of the world, where Mario, after emerging from the carnival's most overtly sinister attraction, is encouraged to play another bonus game--this time rigged, and cheating him out of something of great importance (all his SMWC coins, his hat, the deed to his house, Luigi, who has foolhardily offered himself up as a wager, etc.), whereupon our villain runs off gloating about how impressed Norveg will be that he pulled off such a scam, with Mario realizing his own folly chasing after his via coaster to reclaim what is his.
World 6: It's interesting to note that although Norveg mostly relies on mercenaries hired from Bowser for security purposes, the entirety of World 6 seems to show (explicitly intended or not) that he's attempting create his own private air force independent of this. Perhaps the Blimp Duck (whom I imagine to be something of a trigger-happy sort) might briefly explain to Mario just why Norveg thinks control of the sky in particular to be of crucial importance for his expansion.
World 7: The proposed boss here is a sort of weird snowman/fire creature, which seems to be the perfect candidate for a strange creation of Doc's. Indeed, the Fire/Ice aspect represents a very unusual sort of natural environment whose properties represent all sorts of crazy possibilities for Doc (whom I imagine to posses a sort of manic curiosity, delighting in the idea of screwing with the fundamental properties of reality just to see if he can--which might not necessarily be a negative trait if not for his utter lack of concern for the consequences of his actions). I imagine our cutscene here could feature Doc effusing about the fascinating possibilities of this place (foreshadowing the special world as I imagine it), culminating in his sending the monster after Mario as a sort of physical demonstration thereof.
World 8: The specifics of our cutscenes here, I dare say, ought to wait until we see exactly how the bosses and final stage turn out. Nevertheless, someone mentioned the idea of having a brief world intro cutscene right before Incineration Station in which Luigi is captured by Norveg's goons right before the lockdown; this could potentially be used to add a bit more tension to the world by giving Mario a more personal goal in addition to stopping Norveg. If we were to do this, however, it might be worth having Luigi being freed after Doc is defeated, and making the final stage entirely based around Norveg's final, desperate attempt to destroy Mario.
World 9: I've gone on about this at great length elsewhere, but to sum: somewhere in World 8, Norveg and/or Doc make mysterious references to a secret project, involving "the stuff dreams are made of". Several days after the events of the game, Mario heads back to investigate, and discovers a secret facility, as depicted in Asteroid Antics. There (either spread out throughout the stage itself, in a secret area thereafter, or scattered through a few earlier stages, depending on how we ultimately handle the entrance to the special world) he discovers a few scattered notes by Doc Croc speaking of a mysterious pocket dimension of a changing and fluid nature, and the possibilities offered by developing a means to control this flux to create a reality shaped according to one's will at any particular moment. Mario discovers the entrance to this place, and finds himself in a strange, dreamlike world of an ever-changing and increasingly bizarre nature, where he is menaced both by the unstable nature of the world itself and by the last remnant of Norveg Industries, still operating on auto-pilot after the company has fallen. Mario battles through them in this increasingly strange realm, culminating in a particularly silly joke battle with a decidedly non-impressive field commander we know all too well, upon whose defeat Mario comically precipitates the destruction of Norveg's incomplete device for controlling the otherwise random flow of this realm. Oh, but it's not over yet! By destroying the crude canals and dams Team Norveg had put in place in the natural course of flow of this dimension, Mario lets forth a huge torrent of flux, which washes over him, and sends him (literally) flying throw an ever-changing wonderland filled with ecstatic abstract revelers, who buzz about, exulting at being freed of the constraints lately placed upon them. Unaware of the fragility of our hero, they attempt to get him to join in the festivities, which he must attempt to artfully sneak past in the final, dazzling, experimental stage. In a final survival boss sequence, Mario must endure an increasingly rowdy crowd of well-meaning but oblivious line dancing shape people before he can finally escape back to his own, far calmer world.
Phew.
---
Now at this point, you maybe saying, "Jesus Christ, Rameau, that's a lot of plot. How could we ever fit that in without the player suffering from cutscene fatigue like in the last game?"
Answer: Careful writing.
The problem with SMWCP was not that it had a lot of cutscenes--other hacks have had more, yet were well-received despite this. The problem is that they were
A) Badly placed, and repeated every time the player died in a stage.
B) Boring, and more signifcantly, interminable.
C) Somehow managed to convey very little information despite their excessive length, giving us a bare plot despite all this.
The combined effect was that they felt as though they were holding up the game, instead of enhancing it. So what would we do to prevent this?
A) Not only have them be skippable, but have them only play once until the level is completed. What may be interesting the first time loses its charm by the 8th.
B) Don't make them excessively long. You can reveal a surprising amount of information with relatively little dialogue. This is especially the case if the dialogue is especially chosen in such a way as to play off of (but not repeat!) things already seen in the gameplay itself.
C) Place and space them appropriately so that that they work in favor of the game's rhythm, rather than having massive info dumps which seem disconnected from the levels themselves. Having a dialogue free, atmospheric-setting cutscene at the start of each world works well insofar as it helps establish the theme of the area (which SMWCPs did not do) without being overbearing. Having a (non-excessively long) cutscene before each boss (only the first time the player goes up against the boss) is good because it allows the player a moment to collect themselves between a tricky stage and a tricky boss, and also enhances the flavor of the boss fight by giving us a better idea of whom we're doing battle with and what their role in things is, thereby upping the stakes, rather than just having Mario fight a random large enemy out of nowhere.
Anyway, that's my take on the plot; feel free to dispute, expand, counter-propose or what have you.
|
| Last edited on 2012-01-29 01:16:20 AM by Rameau's Nephew. |
|
| Posted on 2012-01-28 11:33:22 AM |
Link | Quote |
|
I like the general idea of this (though you forgot the other world 4 boss) Its a great start, and we can easily build off of this
*Que people saying the story it too in-depth*
|
|
| Posted on 2012-01-28 11:53:12 AM |
Link | Quote |
|
|
I'm loving the ideas posed here, especially the ones for the intro, world 1, world 2 and world 5, and I'm all for pre-boss cutscenes as long as they're mildly entertaining or funny. Because seriously, if we're going to expand on all the bosses plot-wise, we have to give the players an incentive to actually read it, and I don't know a better way than to make sure it's worth the read.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-01-28 01:00:37 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
I don't know if I can agree with the idea that Norveg not appearing "before World 8", though I right now am probably misinterpreting that as "don't appear until the final level". Perhaps 1-2 appearances on a screen could work out.
Originally posted by LightvayneI like the general idea of this (though you forgot the other world 4 boss)
Mario and his gang encounter Bowser on a nearby beach. Seeing as his troops have been attacking Mario once again, they proceed to go confront him. Before anything serious can happen, Bowser tells the duo (or trio if you want to include Yoshi in this) that he only leant out his army to Norveg and his involvement with the latest conflict ends there. Seeing as they have no further reason to directly deal with him, they leave Bowser alone from that point.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-01-28 03:41:41 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
I love you RN <3
I love the idea of expanding and explaining what the heck a mechanical tree, dryad, tanuki, mummy, jellyfish, ringmaster (or something), a "flying" duck, an abominable lavaman, and a crocodile has to with the story.
I really didn't get what SMWCP had to do with it's bosses.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-01-28 04:24:14 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
Originally posted by Rameau's NephewWorld 2
I quite dislike this idea, as you see world 2 have slim (Or even don't have any at all) "Metal all over". And so I don't think Dryad is said to be at Norveg's side, but against him for trying to industrialize her forest. When Mario arrives at where she is placed, she then thinks Mario is there to take the forest in Norveg's name, so she attacks, leading Mario to explain he is against Norveg after the battle.
As for world 9, following the idea i posted on the other thread, it would be a place created by the dreams of the Dreamer. A girl that have born with the strange ability to give form of her dreams.
That brought trouble to the place she lived in, so people claimed that she was a bad omen. Then, they decided to tie her into a tree far away from them.
Years passed, and as she dreamed, the forest changed it's form, until the day of her death.
And so, making she sleep and Dream for the eternity. Never to wake up again, and never to stop giving that place form.
|
| Last edited on 2012-01-28 04:24:41 PM by Ludus. |
|
| Posted on 2012-01-28 05:07:10 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
Originally posted by LudusOriginally posted by Rameau's NephewWorld 2
I quite dislike this idea, as you see world 2 have slim (Or even don't have any at all) "Metal all over". And so I don't think Dryad is said to be at Norveg's side, but against him for trying to industrialize her forest. When Mario arrives at where she is placed, she then thinks Mario is there to take the forest in Norveg's name, so she attacks, leading Mario to explain he is against Norveg after the battle.
This would only make sense if the Dryad boss level follows after the "blazing brush" level from magiluigi, because it shows at least some kind of destruction.
Originally posted by Ludus
As for world 9, following the idea i posted on the other thread, it would be a place created by the dreams of the Dreamer. A girl that have born with the strange ability to give form of her dreams.
[...]
I thought that was some kind of fish you've drawn O.o'
But I don't like this idea, it doesn't fit well with the comical, but tone of the game(Bowser runs out of money, etc., flaming snowman), it's sounds like...putting some Final Fantasy Element into a "DKC" Game (DKC = current game). If we could put it in something what fits the pollution theme of the game, mixed with some comical aspect to it, it could work out, I've no idea right now however.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-01-28 05:59:39 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
|
Am I the only one who feels like the dreamer idea is like SMB2 USA and it's world of Subcon?
|
|
| Posted on 2012-01-28 06:08:31 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
Originally posted by Ludus
As for world 9, following the idea i posted on the other thread, it would be a place created by the dreams of the Dreamer. A girl that have born with the strange ability to give form of her dreams.
That brought trouble to the place she lived in, so people claimed that she was a bad omen. Then, they decided to tie her into a tree far away from them.
Years passed, and as she dreamed, the forest changed it's form, until the day of her death.
And so, making she sleep and Dream for the eternity. Never to wake up again, and never to stop giving that place form.
I love the idea, personaly. The only issue is, how the hell would we get that backstory intregated into the game.
And to the comical reasoning, that's why i love it. The idea of a generally comical plot ending with a serious tone would make the player go "wow". I've played a few games that did that. and i loved every single one of them.
Next issue is of course the boss. Since you can't really battle the girl, i guess you could do this:
Being as how the girl is dead in reality, and only living within the dreams she generates, Couldn't you battle her dream form, so to speak. Battling the creator, master, and lifeline of the very dimension you battle in; that is final/bonus battle worthy
tl;dr: im all for it
|
|
| Posted on 2012-01-28 06:18:00 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
I just got an idea, based on RN's idea, about world 9:
World 9 is a true world; it's not a dream, yet is is a dream.
What do I mean? Let me explain..
After Mario defeats Norveg, Norveg somehow finds himself in this "dream" world. Maybe a cutscene where Norveg get's ejected to a great distance.
Norveg then finds out that these weird array of areas were "dreamt" up by various beings; someone wished they existed, and they existed in the Abstract World. Norveg finds this as a chance to reinstate his power; to have is almighty world of industrialism.
So...instead of a boss, this level full of unimagined things; things "never" seen before in hacks (note: it's in quotations); a level full of Norveg's dreams; all come true. (Thus, the experimental level)
Norveg is so content with his "dream" world; believing that NO ONE will find his refuge.
Well, no one else but Mario.
~
OR...this could be SMWCP3....////shot
|
|
| Posted on 2012-01-28 11:36:07 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
Another possibility for world 9.
After the final boss, everyone meets at peaches castle, and all is well once more. Suddenly, luigi notices and shoots down a winged cloud from YI, marked "Leave me alone, OR ELSE!!" Another earthquake rocks the land, leaving a huge portal in the sky.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-01-29 01:05:02 AM |
Link | Quote |
|
Originally posted by MrDeePayI don't know if I can agree with the idea that Norveg not appearing "before World 8", though I right now am probably misinterpreting that as "don't appear until the final level". Perhaps 1-2 appearances on a screen could work out.
By "not before World 8" I simply meant "not before World 8", i.e. he could potentially make an appearance before the final level, but not before Mario enters the factory map. That said, a brief appearance or two on a screen (ideally at least mildly visually obscured) or through a speaker before then could work, too. Generally, though, I see him as a sort of "controlling things from a distance" type of villain, and I think he benefits as a character by having a touch of mystery about him throughout most of the game.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-01-29 07:11:35 AM |
Link | Quote |
|
|
Now, who has working on the cutscenes for this hack? I remember there being something along the lines of short clips being used in the hack. I think it might be a good idea to see what progress they've made so far before we delve too deep into plot changes.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-01-29 09:43:48 AM |
Link | Quote |
|
|
Kip was suppose to be working on it, but I don't think he really got all that far other than a beta idea, so we shouldn't have to worry about it.
|
| Last edited on 2012-01-29 09:44:38 AM by Lightvayne. |
|
| Posted on 2012-01-29 02:18:44 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
Originally posted by LightvayneKip was suppose to be working on it, but I don't think he really got all that far other than a beta idea, so we shouldn't have to worry about it.
Incidentally I haven't forgotten about them, but what free time I have set aside for working with ASMWCP 2 is currently being used for the world 6 boss. That being said, though, they aren't plot intensive at all; they are just quick throw-away gags that would be used to introduce the world's theme.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-01-29 03:14:17 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
Proposed cutscenes:
Before each world
Before each boss
At the start of the game
Norveg's defeat
Obligatory end
Before World 9
At the end of the game (After World 9)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Index - Events - SMW Central Production 2 - Plot Discussion Thread |
|
|
 |
|
 |
The purpose of this site is not to distribute copyrighted material, but to honor one of our favourite games.
Copyright © 2005 - 2013 - SMW Central
Legal Information - Link To UsTotal queries: 29
|
|
|
|
1 
