 |
|
 |
|
| Plot Discussion Thread |
|
Forum Index - Events - SMW Central Production 2 - Plot Discussion Thread |
|
|
|
|
| Posted on 2012-01-29 04:14:56 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
Though to be honest, the cutscenes shouldn't need to be really plot intensive at all. Remember, this is just a Mario game, not some epic RPG that requires a convoluted plot to keep players engaged. While I can appreciate the effort some folks are putting out to flesh out the bosses' stories and whatnot, most players are not really going to care too much about it. They just want to play a Mario platformer, and those have never been too heavy on the story.
For the most part, the plot and theme are inferential, and should remain this way. Think of it like this; Mario starts his adventure and the first thing he notices in the grasslands is the steel structures that have been set up everywhere, and as he travels further in, he notices clouds of smog in the distance. From this, we can infer that someone has built a factory here, they're attempting to expand it across the entire grassland, and it's up to Mario to thwart these plans.
Don't forget that a lot of the levels have theming to them, and tell a story of their own. Blazing Brush for example, starts off as a peaceful forest stage, but soon enough, an announcement warns everyone to clear out in order to make way for Norveg's deforestation team. The forest begins to ignite, there's now fire hazards everywhere, and Mario must brave his way through the forest inferno.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-01-29 05:38:22 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
Been awhile since posting regarding this project...
As a kind of simple way to go about having a plot, I just figure that with the cutscenes at the beginning of each world a problem is shown. These wouldn't be intricate cutscenes or plots, just a general overview of the area ahead. I realize the levels are based more general location than progression so making too complex a plot wouldn't work. World 1 will just kind of start with Mario noticing these things happening and he goes to investigate. After he gets a hint of what's going on, he chooses one of the next two areas and sees that there's an issue. I don't know if we want to incorporate macguffins (in that case you'd have to explain why you can skip two castles/factories and still beat the game) or just have Mario follow Norveg's trail, but then we just have more independent stories to each world. World 2 could be pertaining to nature's reaction what Norveg is doing. World 3 I thought could have the issue of unrest in earthen spirits or something, which is why I thought a pionpi (jiang shi) boss would be interesting. World 4 could also go with the spirit thing or could have to do with pollution or drought. World 5 could be about the dangers of Norveg's operations or something to that effect. World 6 could be about air pollution or something. World 5 and 6 could also be the worlds in which the plot turns more towards Norveg's operations rather than simply the effects of them. World 7 could be about an iced over volcano that gained activity because of Norveg or maybe something like Norveg's activity awakening some rivaling spirits (again with the spirits). If we were to go with the second idea for World 5 and 6, then 7's plot might want to be more directly related to Norveg. I haven't been watching the project closely since quitting so I'm not sure where World 8 lies in relation to 7. If it's simply within this volcano or something like that, then that could be plot enough (possibly in conjunction with one of the other ideas). World 9 I'm not entirely sure of. Have we determined how closely it needs to relate to the plot? Is it just a bonus challenge or is it the final portion of the plot, or provide backstory for the plot? (Personally I prefer the backstory idea. The backstory part would be in the introduction or at the end of the world, which could otherwise be unrelated.) Since it's unlocked through SMWC coins, it could be some treasure in Norveg's vault, a machine he was trying to power (Alternate reality generator gone haywire? Perhaps Norveg's ultimate goal was to become god of his own realm?), or some completely unrelated relic or character in any random area.
@Ludus: I like your idea quite a bit, but I'm not sure how fitting it is. That's not to say we can't have World 9 be totally irrelevant to the plot, but like I said I'd rather we kind of go towards the bonus backstory option. It's also not very Mario-ish (although industrialization isn't very Mario either so...)
|
| Last edited on 2012-01-29 05:43:30 PM by Zephyr. |
|
| Posted on 2012-01-31 05:07:47 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
@Zephyr:
Originally posted by Giant Shy Guy
Some notable things:
Kipernal's Cutscene Idea
Originally posted by KipernalJust a random idea I had for the cutscenes that would play upon entering each world: a short gag that would occur with Luigi always ending up as the butt of the joke, followed by a pan across the landscape.
I kinda like incorpariting these two.
~
@Gemini: Agreed. Show, don't tell as the say.
~
But anywho, I will say that I do not want any "unnecessary" custscenes used.
So I say keep it the minimal, and I think the proposed ideas said would be good...
9 worlds + 10(?) bosses + start of game + end of game + Norveg's defeat + after world 9 = 23 cutscenes?
That's too much, I guess...
And it'll 24 if there's a World 9 boss...
A traditional THE END could replace the World 9 cutscenes...
|
|
|
|
| Posted on 2012-02-22 10:18:41 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
So, over in World 9, after some initial debate as to exactly what direction to take the extra-finale of the game in, we ultimately ending up more or less tossing everything together forming a curious synthesis of ideas which, despite all odds, ended up fitting together fairly nicely. It also necessitates rather a bit of backstory, which after the previous productions plot fiasco, has understandably worried some people, but as TSRPR, for example, quite clearly shows us, you can certainly throw in some unexpected new plot elements in the postgame and have it work to your hack’s advantage, if only you go about it smartly, in a way which complements the action.
As I mentioned once before with respect to the main plot, you can transmit a lot of information fairly concisely if you paint in broad enough strokes, and in such a way as to allow the player to easily fill in the gaps themselves. And as I similarly suggested earlier, a good way to transmit some of our background in easy, bite-sized pieces would be in the form of a handful of notes left by Doc Croc. Here’s a rough example of what such things might look like, all painstakingly formatted to fit into ordinary message blocks:
Quote---
This new dimension
is fascinating -
reality is in
flux, its nature
ever-evolving. But
shouldn't the
result be a bit
more...randomized?
---
Hmm.There seems to
be a force guiding
the flux, giving a
definite if fluid
shape to the flow.
Now, if we could
figure out a way
to control that...
---
Hoy! I've found a
way to at least
influence our dear
guiding force!
Refine this, and
we could do quite
literally ANYTHING
we can dream of.
---
Bah! Norveg has
prioritzed company
expansion over all
new projects. But
why settle for
owning the world
if you can harness
reality itself?
---
Well, I convinced
the boss to leave
a team to work on
our device, led
by our own master
dreamer. If anyone
is at home in this
place, it's him...
---
Nothing too long or overly detailed, and yet it gives us a good idea of what World 9 is, how it works, its connection to the main plot, and hints at both the fake and real bosses in a way that doesn’t actually give anything away beforehand. But even so, how would we go about delivering this information in a more elegant way than a simple info dump?
My suggestion would be to have each note as a sign block, scattered throughout an exciting and action-heavy stage. I’m actually thinking the already existing Asteroid Antics would be a good place for this. It already has something of the air of a secret, out-of-the way facility, and might be though of as the lab in which Doc was conducting his research on the dream world. What’s more it’s a fairly lengthy stage, so the notes could be spread out reasonably well, and its snaking corridors and tunnel network-style architecture compliment the idea of Mario hunting through this facility searching for clues about this mysterious secret project of Norveg and Friends, an aspect which also adds a nice little bit of extra depth to the level and lends the postgame a bit more of an epic feel. And it is, of course, fully optional Does this sound like something which might appeal to you folks?
Again, the goal here is to have a plot which helps enhance the stages themselves and provides links between otherwise somewhat disparate stages, thus smoothing over some of the inherent bumpiness of a multi-author work instead of rudely jutting in and emphasizing it. I similarly have some ideas/sample text concerning how we can deliver some of the backstory of the extra boss herself in such a way which will help better tie together all the pieces of the ultra-multi-author final stage, but I’m interested in hearing if this sort of plot delivery system is an approach that appeals to folks in general. It's a nice way to give us kooky plot fans something to chew on without getting to mired down in text, and lets those who prefer to stick to the action do precisely that. Sound like your idea of a good time?
|
|
| Posted on 2012-02-23 02:09:27 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
It sounds like a good idea, but where exactly would we place them? Should all of them be out in the open on the main path, or hidden in various places?
Also, perhaps it's something we should do throughout the game instead of just in one level? It would give designers more things with which to reward players when they find hidden rooms, for instance.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-02-23 03:23:59 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
I think putting them on the main path would be the better idea if we wanted to reduce the possibility of the player missing any (and also assuring they get them in order), though I must admit there's a certain charm to actually hunting in hidden away places for them. As to using mutiple levels...well, earlier on, there was talk of having the player go back to previously completed levels to search for clues to open the special world, but that sort of fell through (though it raises the question...what does the player have to do to reach the bonus world? Just complete the normal game? Complete the normal game plus get all the switches? Something more?). I thought the above idea might be a bit simpler to implement (as well as also better defining just exactly what the relationship of Asteroid Antics, a stage which always existed in a curious limbo between normal- and postgame, is with respect to Worlds 8 and 9). But we could always revive something like the older idea if it's something which inspires people.
Another possibility would be to place the notes in the stages of the World 9 itself, thereby having the player steadily gain knowledge about the world as they pass through. Personally I prefer the idea of building up the mystery of this place beforehand in the normal universe and simply having the player bask in this world's strange wonder in World 9 itself, but that's still another option to consider.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-02-26 09:26:41 AM |
Link | Quote |
|
|
All right, here's my (very long) proposal for how we could tie in the extra boss's backstory, following the same principle of delivering the plot in small, piecemeal bits which allow the players to fill in the gaps by themselves, and which hopefully will add to a feeling of coherency, both in the final stage itself, and between boss, World 9, and the rest of the hack as a whole. Do people like this approach? Dislike? Enjoy certain elements but have reservations about others? Enquiring minds want to know.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-15 10:39:38 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
|
If you're all still up for a Bowser cameo somewhere in World 4, you can turn level 103 into that and tuck it away somewhere on that portion of the map.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-15 10:48:21 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
Originally posted by MrDeePayIf you're all still up for a Bowser cameo somewhere in World 4, you can turn level 103 into that and tuck it away somewhere on that portion of the map.
Sounds like a good idea to me.
An oasis vacation home; a villa of some sort?
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-15 10:50:38 PM |
Link | Quote |
|
|
We'll see, there's some details floating around right now about what to do about 103 (if anything). But I kind of like the idea MrDeePay.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-16 06:15:05 AM |
Link | Quote |
|
|
I actually had the same thought my self, though silently, in the vain hope that something might sill come out of the actual level in the end. In any event it seems like a reasonable enough approach in the present situation.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-16 06:27:01 AM |
Link | Quote |
|
There's a bunch of people on the IRC that want to have a go at the level, so it might even end up as a group effort.
...It would be a nice opportunity to actually use that Bowser cameo.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-16 06:28:34 AM |
Link | Quote |
|
Originally posted by Rameau's NephewI actually had the same thought my self, though silently, in the vain hope that something might sill come out of the actual level in the end. In any event it seems like a reasonable enough approach in the present situation.
Yes *sad to see 103 go*
Psst. There might be two of them RN. |
|
| Posted on 2012-03-19 12:04:10 AM |
Link | Quote |
|
Hey-hey, now that some of our bosses are starting to come together a bit more, I had small burst of inspiration for some rough versions of just a few of the pre-boss cutscenes as alluded to earlier in the thread.
World 1: Due to the nature of World 1 being one of the few absolutely mandatory worlds, it's useful to use for setting up the plot, and thus it might be useful to have two smaller cutscenes, one at the beginning (which only plays ONCE until the stage is cleared), and one at the end:
Quote(Beginning of stage)
Mario encounters Doc Croc, looking (and pointing) off to the right.
Mario: Excuse me, are you Doc Croc of Norveg Industies?
Doc(heartily): Alexandre Felix Gustav Remmington Maxwell Sergio Jean-Claude Friedrich Petronius Catallus Temujin Archipelago Krokialaukis, Doctor of Robotics, Bioetechnology and Pataphysics, at your service. What can I do-you-for, son?
Mario: Well, I had some concerns about your company's rapid expansion into the Mushroom Kingdom and surrounding areas--
Doc (his good humor wavering for an instant): Ah. Well. Now, that's a very interesting topic, and I'd love to stay and discuss it with you--but I'm afraid duty calls, very important meeting with the boss man, don't ya know. But tell you what, why not take the matter up with Truntor, our customer service representative? I'm sure he'll give you just the help you need. Well, I've gotta fly (places a silly propeller hat on his head)--and I do mean that quite literally. Up, up and awaaaaaay! (Flies off, to Mario befuddlement)
We could then include a message box at the start of Reclaimed refinery with the text:
QuoteLEFT - Customer Service Dept.
RIGHT - Rapid transport tube to (Whatever we call the country featured in World 3)
Traveling to the right, the player would come upon another message block above the boss door, with the text:
QuoteOffice of TRUNTOR
The boss is IN
This is of course an essential notice to have when dealing with such a highly mobile individual as a tree.
Pre-Boss scene:
QuoteMario comes upon a mechanized tree.
Mario: Er...I don't suppose you're Customer Service Representative Truntor, by any chance...?
Truntor: AFFIRMATIVE. UNIT: TRUNTOR. DUTIES INCLUDE CONVERSION OF LOCAL FAUNA AND FLORA AND CUSTOMER SERVICE. PLEASE STATE THE NATURE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
Mario: Well, I had some concerns about--
Truntor: PLEASE CONSENT TO THE FOLLOWING MANDATORY SCAN SO THAT WE MAY BETTER ADDRESS YOUR QUERY.
Mario: Manda--
Truntor: CONSENT ACKNOWLEDGED. SCANNING. (Truntor emits a red beam from his eye directed at Mario, who lurches back)
...
...
...
...WARNING, WARNING! DENIM, WORK BOOTS AND FACIAL HAIR DETECTED. SUBJECT DISPLAYS A 56.21694% PROBABILITY OF BEING AN UNAUTHORIZED LUMBERJACK. COMMENCING PREEMPTIVE EXTERMINATION.
World 3:
QuoteMario encounters the Tanuki Boss
Mario: Nice place here.
Boss: The New Temple of Water. The old one...well, it wasn't quite as adaptable as the element it was built in honor of. And so...Sploosh!
(Zips to the other side of a disconcerted Mario.)
Ah, but I love the water, don't you? Ever flowing, ever changing, reforming itself and carving out the world around it. A force for progress. Just like Mr. Norveg, no?
(Zips to the first side again.)
Ah, but I heard the Doc discovered a place where -everything- flows and changes like the water! I'd like to go there some day. Oh, but I can't now--too much to be done here. We're far behind schedule shaking up this sleepy little land, dragging it out of its stagnant little tidal pool and onto the wave of the future.
(Zips above Mario.)
Ah, but you know what they say--
(Zips to the right, all up in Mario's grill).
Out with the old, and in with the new.
(Zips to the left, same distance.)
Out with the old...
(Zips to the far right).
And so (heh), out with YOU.
World 7 :
QuoteMario encounters Doc looking at a monitor.
Doc: Hey there, Mario; long time no see. This place is fascinating, don't you think? The forces at play here allow these two climatological extremes to exist side-by-side, without neutralizing each other--astounding, no? Imagine what we could do if we could understand and redirect these forces--oh, but you probably guessed that's what this facility is all about.
We're making pretty good progress, if I may say so myself. Why, we've even tried putting these principles to work in a living being!
(The Fire Ice Monster appears behind Doc).
I'd like you to meet [name]. He's a true child of this place--fiery temper, heart of ice, all that lovely sort of stuff you'd expect, really. Now, me, I've got to be heading off to make a report to our Glorious Leader, but why don't you two stick around and chat a bit? I'm sure you'll have a crackling discussion; a real friction-free relationship. The two of you will get along like fire and ice, like caesium and water, like Guelphs and Ghibellines. (Puts on his propeller hat.) Well, I don't want to come off as cold, but it's time for me to beat the heat. Arrivederci! (flies off)
Mario and the boss stare at each other for an awkward moment. Finally Mario, ah, fires up the courage to break the ice.
Mario: So, do you---
Boss: GWAAAAR!
(The battle begins)
World 8: Since, like World 1, this is a particularly important juncture in the story, we'd likewise start the castle with a cutscene.
Beginning of castle:
QuoteDoc appears before Mario on a screen.
Doc: Hey, how's it going there, Marioni old pal? I see you've been taking quite a bit of interest in touring our facilities of late, as well as, ah, testing the durability of our equipment and personnel. Nothing like a healthy sense of curiosity, I always say. The Boss-Man, too, has become aware of your hobby, and he thought that you'd be particularly interested in taking a tour of my personal lab. I've got all sorts of interesting projects going on down here which are sure to leave you screaming with delight, and quite possibly some other sensations as well. Why don't you drop on by and take a look at some of them? Here, I'll give you a hand on that front--
(Doc activates a switch causing Mario to drop down a shaft, depositing him in the main hall of the World 8 castle.)
Pre-boss:
QuoteDoc: There you are. (Sighs) You know, Mario...sometimes, you make it hard for a man to put on a good PR face.
(a voice rings over an intercom)
Norveg: Doctor! What is the status on Mario?
Doc: He's right here, boss.
Norveg: Is he dead?
Doc: Not yet, boss.
Norveg: Is he perchance presently engaged in the process of becoming dead?
Doc: We're just chatting right now, boss. And I'm not -that- terrible a conversationalist.
Norveg: And do you not think eliminating him would be a more efficient use of time and resources, Doctor?
Doc: I've found it's best to leave the eliminating until after the chatting, boss. Doing things in the reverse order tends to make for less interesting discussions.
Norveg: Yes, yes, Doctor, your unfailing wit and roguish nonchalance even in a time of crisis no doubt causes the young women to swoon, the young men to seek to emulate you, etc., etc. Yet, may I remind you that this man has already caused our company considerable losses in capital, personnel and stock value, and that his ultimate goal is nothing less than its complete and utter dismantling? If you wish--among other things--to have any resources left at all with which to continue your experiments, I would strongly advise you to eliminate him IMMEDIATELY. Norveg out.
Doc: Ah...Well, Mario, you heard the man. Let's Pickle.
(For the record, I don't actually imagine Norveg normally speaking in that stilted style--in fact, I imagine he's usually a much more straightforward, straight-to-business type--he's just sarcastically adopting an overly formal and mock-polite to express his displeasure with Doc's easygoing, hail-fellow-well-met handling of the Mario situation).
As noted before, I have some ideas for the characterization of some of the other bosses, though these are the first to congeal into concrete dialogues. And of course these are likewise subject to change according to how the bosses themselves develop; like all my previous story proposals, the purpose here is to enhance and add flavor to the already existing gameplay elements, not to dictate them. Opinions?
|
| Last edited on 2012-03-19 01:49:45 AM by Rameau's Nephew. |
|
| Posted on 2012-03-19 03:47:52 AM |
Link | Quote |
|
I love them all, but won't people get upset if Mario starts talking? I think that was one of the issues people had with the first game.
That said, my favorites were the Truntor and Fire/Ice Golem dialogue.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-19 04:31:50 AM |
Link | Quote |
|
Originally posted by MooseI love them all, but won't people get upset if Mario starts talking? I think that was one of the issues people had with the first game.
I thought about that as well, which is why I tried to minimize his lines and give him more of a neutral voice (instead of things like "Oh snap!" and "Let's bolt!"), onto which the player can project whatever sort of personality they like. But I didn't just want to have the villains monologuing at him the whole time, and the only real alternative would be to have someone follow Mario around and do the talking for him, but that has the potential to be far less popular still, as well as not make all that much sense--remember, for instance, how odd people found it that that useless baggage Luigi followed Mario around doing nothing and taking all the credit. Unless of course we're planning to have his hat fall into some toxic ooze or something and miraculously gain the power to speak/teach Mario important lessons about life and friendship.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-19 10:43:18 AM |
Link | Quote |
|
I love those conversations (for some reason "unauthorized lumberjack" made me burst into laughter), though I'm still rather of the mind that Mario shouldn't talk, if only for tradition. The Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi games still manage to give him a well-defined character and keep the story going without him ever speaking a single word, after all, and he dialog you've written already could easily accommodate this. For example:
QuoteMario: (waves to get attention, or something similar)
Doc (heartily): Why, yes, I am indeed the one and only Alexandre Felix Gustav Remmington Maxwell Sergio Jean-Claude Friedrich Petronius Catallus Temujin Archipelago Krokialaukis, Doctor of Robotics, Bioetechnology and Pataphysics, at your service. What can I do-you-for, son?
Mario: (generic, vaguely Italian-sounding gibberish)
Doc (his good humor wavering for an instant): Ah, you're...here about our wonderful corporation, aren't you? Now, that's a very interesting topic, (etc.)
He already isn't saying much, so I can't imagine it would hurt to have him say a little less.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-20 12:43:21 AM |
Link | Quote |
|
|
Yeah just go the Paper Mario way and have the bosses "repeat" everything Mario says, even though the player doesn't understand Mario in the first place.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-20 04:46:00 AM |
Link | Quote |
|
While I have no objections to that idea in principle, there's one major problem--though I've admittedly have never played Paper Mario, Super Mario RPG and Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga, at the very least, tended to compensate for Mario's lack of saying anything decipherable (aside from the occasional "Oh yeah!" and the like in the latter game) by making him very physically animated: in lieu of speaking, he runs and hops around, makes noises and dramatic gestures, etc., so we still get a strong sense of him participating in the conversation even if we can't understand his particular words as such. Unfortunately, our current technologies don't really allow us to (easily) do anything comparable to that: we have but a still-frame Mario who certainly can't produce anything in the way of noises, leaving us with either bosses who simply talk at him rather than with him the whole tile (which feels a lot less dynamic) or we awkwardly write stage directions into our dialogues, which is just plain bizarre. Something of an impasse.
(Also, I dare say it'd be difficult to pull off a comparable effect to the end of the World 7 pre-boss dialogue without having Mario actually start to say something to be interrupted mid-sentence in.)
|
| Last edited on 2012-03-20 04:53:02 AM by Rameau's Nephew. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Index - Events - SMW Central Production 2 - Plot Discussion Thread |
|
|
 |
|
 |
The purpose of this site is not to distribute copyrighted material, but to honor one of our favourite games.
Copyright © 2005 - 2013 - SMW Central
Legal Information - Link To UsTotal queries: 27
|
|
|
|
