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Plot Discussion Thread
Forum Index - Events - SMW Central Production 2 - Plot Discussion Thread
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 »
Originally posted by Rameau's Nephew
we have but a still-frame Mario who certainly can't produce anything in the way of noises

We can make Mario move pretty easily, and should S.N.N. switch to addmusic 4.05 like I thought I read somewhere, inserting new sound effects is also pretty easy.
I fully agree that Mario should never be given dialog, other than his occasional mumblings, and some short phrases used throughout the Mario series.

Since it would be HARD to make our own mario mumblings, we will have to take them from other games (SMB2 and the M&L series would be good ideas)

Although...before we go one creating MORE Mario poses...we need to get those flying graphics done; though, that;s another story.
Originally posted by HuFlungDu
We can make Mario move pretty easily, and should S.N.N. switch to addmusic 4.05 like I thought I read somewhere, inserting new sound effects is also pretty easy.


That won't be happening anymore. I've found out from talking to Kipernal that it'll likely be a lot more trouble than its worth. We'd also have to insert entire .bnks to compensate for the broken songs, as well as fix up Musical Mechanisms (the level which relies entirely on AMM). Among other things, we'd also lose our custom death tracks, and any instances where the music has been manipulated (such as in the second half of my level).
The more I think about this, though, the more I think we actually could pull off a more active, miming Mario, even without sound effects. Every time he's intended to be speaking, we could have "Mario" appear as he speaker, then have his image change to the jumping frame or some other dynamic looking frame to represent his contribution to the conversation. And of course we could have more particular actions, too. For example:

Quote
Mario enters the door labeled "Office of TRUNTOR". He finds himself in a sort of grove with an odd sort of mechanized tree in front of him.

Mario:(Looks to the left, looks to the right, looks to the left again, looks back to the right and up at Truntor; a question mark appears above his head.)

Truntor: AFFIRMATIVE. UNIT: TRUNTOR. DUTIES INCLUDE BLAH BLAH BLAH AND HEY-NONNY-NONNY, ETC.


Of course, as noted, this will probably require a few extra Mario poses, and we seem to be having enough trouble even getting the essential ones finished...
More rough ideas for cutscenes, mavourneens. I've likewise rewritten the ones I posted here last time to account for a miming Mario (and also for the fact that I apparently got the World 1 boss's name wrong), but I'll spare you those relatively minor edits for the sake of perspicuity. For now, the newer ones.

World 5:

Quote
Mario exits the funhouse and comes upon the carnival barker duck, who stands upon a raised platform, with two barrels in front of him.

Duck: Wasn't that fun, kid? But wait--I've got somethin' even better for you. One of these barrels contains a Goomba. Find the Goomba and win a prize! What sort of prize? That's up to you. Put up a wager--find the Goomba and win four times your wager! You have a fifty-fifth chance to win! What do you say, kid?

Mario: (Stretches out his arms to indicate he has nothing of value).

Duck
: Nothing to wager, you say?

Voice: Mario, wait!

Luigi, unseen since the opening cutscene, walks into view.

Luigi: Don't worry, bro; I'll be your wager!

Mario: (Gesture of disbelief, Exclamation mark appears above his head.)

Luigi: No, no, bro; don't worry about me; I'll be fine. I trust your skill and judgement.

Duck: All right, you heard the man! For a whopping four mustachioed handiworkers, all you need to do is find the Goomba! Now: (a Goomba jumps in one of the barrels, which are then shuffled around a bit) Wheeeeeere's the Goomba?

A menu appears with two choices: "The left barrel" and "The right barrel". No matter which the player selects, the result is the same--the barrel is empty.

Duck: Ooooo, sorry kid, looks like that was wrong. I'll just be taking this, then.

Luigi
(resigned): It's a fair cop.

Duck: Better luck next time! (grabs Luigi and runs off).

Mario: ...

Mario kicks over the other barrel. There is likewise nothing inside.

Mario: (Exclamation mark appears over his head.)

Another part of the carnival. The duck runs along, holding over his shoulder an unresisting Luigi, who has a completely stoic and unperturbed look on his face. Luigi does not react in any way to the following events, nor does he even appear to particularly take notice of them.

Duck
: Hee hee hee, Norveg's gonna give me a MASSIVE bonus after pulling off a con like THAT one. Hindenbird is going to be soooooo jealous!!

Mario appears from the left side of the screen, doggedly running after our villain. The Duck turns his head and looks back at him.

Duck: Ah jeez, he's faster than he looks. No chance of outrunning him while I'm lugging THIS guy around; better sit tight and call for backup.

The Duck jumps onto a Ferris wheel or roller coaster, as the case may be, and pulls out a large megaphone.

Duck (shouting up and out into the distance): HEY, RUBE!

The Duck's cart moves away from Mario as his fellow carnival workers, attracted by the traditional carny call of distress, rush to their boss's aid. The battle begins.


World 6:

Quote
Mario emerges atop the flagship of the Norvegian fleet. He looks around, not seeing anything in particular. Hindenbird (or whatever he ends up being called) jets up from below, bowling him over.

Hindenbird: Admiring our proud fleet? A fine assemblage of crafts...oh, but this is just the beginning.

Hindenbird jets to the right side of the screen, as Mario rights himself.

Hindenbird: I was always against it, myself, but most of our security duties are signed out to independent contractors--for now, at least. But soon, very soon...Norveg Industries will have its own, 100% private air force. Huah! (jets back and forth, proudly).

Hindenbird: Control of the skies is far too essential to leave in the hands to outside forces. When you're master of the air, you're master of the world. When you control the airspace, you control the fastest and most direct supply routes. You've got an eye on your competitors at all times; there's nothing they can truly hide from you, no matter how they scurry around inside their pathetic little anthills. And if you don't like what they're doing...

...you can BUST THEIR BUNKERS!

Hindenbird makes two low swipes at Mario, who jumps over them.

Hindenbird: Hmm...not bad, not bad. They say you're supposed to be pretty tough. But you've got one major weakness. You're a little too...

...GROUNDED.

Hindenbird makes another swipe, slightly higher than last time. Mario ducks this
.

Hindenbird: Heh. But words are cheap and we're both men of action; let's leave the blathering to the PR men and carnival barkers. As for us...maybe I ought to give you a hands-on demonstration of the full tactical advantage of a superior air presence. I'm sure you'll find it a...heart-stopping experience. (Jets upward) Geronimooooo!


World 8 (again):

I figure Norveg, if we keep him a mysterious hidden string-puller throughout most of the game (and this seems the better approach to me) needs a more proper introduction near the start of World 8. Thus, we could throw in a short little something between Rusted Retribution and Incineration Station, to help give the impression of how our foes are now on the defensive, and set up the more tense mood of the final world:

Quote
Doc enters a sort of control room. Norveg stands in one corner, looking away, and partially obscured by shadows.

Doc: Bad news, boss. Mario's made at to the research facility in [Fire/Ice World]. I sent Frank to take care of him, but...well, I wouldn't be surprised if Mario actually managed to beat him, to be completely honest.

Norveg: And well you shouldn't be, Doctor; I've just received word that the [Fire/Ice] facility has gone off-line. Mario will be heading here next, I imagine.

Doc: From [Fire/Ice World]? The only way to get in from there...well, he'd have to go straight through Sector 0A! He'd need to be a few sausages short of a six-pack to try to get in THAT way.

Norveg: And from your own observations, would you say that sort of reckless rushing into action strikes you as out of character for our friend...?

Doc: No, no, not a bit. You sort of have to admire the man's sheer chutzpah, really.

Norveg: Make sure not to take you admiration to far, Doctor; this man has quite openly declared war on this entire company. I imagine you would wish to avoid fraternizing with the enemy, as it were, hmm...?

Doc: Just trying to keep up the company's good image, Boss.

Norveg: Your first priority should be to assure we still have a company left behind your well-maintained image, my dear Doctor. Declare a general lockdown, with a double security detail in sector 1A.

Doc: You got it, boss.


And I do believe there was mention of having a cutscene at the start of the final level, both to explain the whole lazy/electricity business without resorting to message blocks, to show our previously calm villain beginning to fray at the edges and slip a bit into the realm of desperation, and of course to just generally set the mood and establish the importance of this level. Well, let's see if there's anything we can do to hit all of these diverse targets...

Quote
Following his victory over Doc, Mario comes upon two KooPHDs.

Scientist: Zounds, 'tis Mario! Don't hurt us, we surrender!

Mario: (begins to make a conciliatory gesture)

A beam fires out of a ceiling-mounted cannon toward Mario's position. It obliterates the two scientists, but Mario manages to jump out of its way.

Norveg appears on a monitor.

Norveg: Agh, missed!

Mario: (gestures indignantly to the spot where the two scientists were.)

Norveg: Yes, a waste, I'm aware; they were quite competent employees. But you've driven me to the point where I just simply to accept that sort of thing.

Mario: (More indignant gestures.)

Norveg: How? Simple cost/benefit analysis. You have unmistakably demonstrated that your goal is nothing short of the full destruction of this company. If you are allowed to reach your goal, I lose everything; this is the worst possible scenario from my point of view. Thus: any action I take to eliminate you, no matter how much collateral damage it may cause the company in the process, cannot possibly leave it in a worse state than if I were to allow you to remain alive. Vicious logic, I'm aware, but life doesn't play fair with us, and we have no choice but to likewise play in kind.

Mario: (I'm-gonna-get-you-sucka pose.)

Norveg (developing bit of a strained glint in his eye}: Oh? You're going to come down here to make it easier for me? Oh, please do, please do! I have some lovely toys I've been meaning to test out for some while now, but I just couldn't find the time with you making a mess out of the rest of my projects. So please, by all means, stop on by. You'll find me just on the other side of that lab right ahead of you; just pass through all the laser diodes and auto-cannons;, take a right; you can't miss it. Oh, do watch out for those electrodes, though; they'll fry you right up like a nice little plumber croquette, tout de suite, and we wouldn't want you to die before reaching the real fun, would we? Oh, I'm just kidding--go ahead and do it; denying me the pleasure of wiping you out myself would probably be one of the best snubs you could ever make against me, so feel free to go forth and boldly bound straight into those blitzing blue bolts. Norveg out.


And of course one before the final boss. It's probably a bit premature to actually try writing this before we even have a concrete idea of what the first phase will consist of, but I suppose there's no harm in a very basic version:

Quote
Norveg: So, you made it here after all. I've got to admit, you do have some skill; I can see why Doc was so impressed with you. Pity we got off on the wrong foot, you could have made a fine chief of security for us here at Norveg Industries. In hindsight, I think we can safely say contracting that out to third parties did not prove to be in the company's best interest. Ah, but live and learn, live and learn...

Mario: (Sceptical pose.)

Norveg
: "Join me, Mario"? Ha-ha, don't worry, I wouldn't try anything that trite. Maybe in another life, another universe, but here and now, it seems we have a pretty clear conflict of interests, you and I. Can't run your business according to idle dreams, after all--we're still in the research and development stage of -that- particular project. Like I said, it's a simple cost/benefit analysis, and I'm afraid that you, my friend, have proven yourself decidedly bad for business. But don't get too distraught--you'll still get to make a contribution to our fine enterprise by playing a crucial role in the testing of our prototype [whatever the first phase of the boss is] here. So rest assured that you'll have a radiant spot in our company's history nonetheless. [Insert final line here which has a greater relevance to the particular form of the boss itself].


All subject to change according to the final nature of the actual boss battles, of course.
As much as I love the first one, I say that Luigi shouldn't have a voice either. Like Mario, he expresses things through "grunts" and poses, and for this case, we're stuck with poses.
Originally posted by Giant Shy Guy
As much as I love the first one, I say that Luigi shouldn't have a voice either.


I see no problem with Luigi talking. Just be careful to not make him out of his character.

A good example is "Paper Luigi" from Paper Mario series.
Originally posted by Giant Shy Guy
As much as I love the first one, I say that Luigi shouldn't have a voice either. Like Mario, he expresses things through "grunts" and poses, and for this case, we're stuck with poses.


I don't know; he talks plenty in the Paper Mario games, as ShadowAlexandre said, and unlike Mario, he has been given a solid, definitive character in various games, so it wouldn't be so much an issue of not acting as people expect him to act (if pulled off right, of course).

...that being said, though, the thing that doesn't quite sit right with me is more the fact that Mario would bet his own brother in a game of chance. I mean, it's not like he's being forced to do this, he's betting his brother just for kicks. It doesn't seem right.
Last edited on 2012-04-15 01:01:11 PM by Kipernal.
Originally posted by ShadowAlexandre
Originally posted by Giant Shy Guy
As much as I love the first one, I say that Luigi shouldn't have a voice either.


I see no problem with Luigi talking. Just be careful to not make him out of his character.

A good example is "Paper Luigi" from Paper Mario series.


Never played any Paper Mario games so....

It's seems like the only one in the Mario World (except in other media) who hasn't talked in full sentences is Mario, if you think about it. Didn't the Yoshi's talk in their own language in YI?

But anywho, okay then. Then I suggest to look into how Luigi says thing; and if we are ever having Bowser speak, Super Princess Peach and the Mario & Luigi series are very good references, especially the latter.

It seems like its been decided that Bowser's laugh will always be "GWAHAHAHAHAHAHA". Could be wrong though.
Whether Yoshi's spoke in Yoshi or English depended on the Yoshi themself, though most can only speak the former.
Pretty much all the Yoshis in Paper Mario games speak English actually, even though they live as a tribe on a really obscure island, so I'd not say that most are limited to Yoshi language, but rather that the Yoshi in Mario Party and Mario Kart etc. is a retard.
Wait I just forgot that Yoshi speaks in SMW itself. .-.

But anywho this is getting off-topic.

Anywho:

Luigi talking
Originally posted by Kipernal
...that being said, though, the thing that doesn't quite sit right with me is more the fact that Mario would bet his own brother in a game of chance. I mean, it's not like he's being forced to do this, he's betting his brother just for kicks. It doesn't seem right.


Mario doesn't seem to much like the idea himself, but Luigi and the carnival barker seem determined to go through with it in any case; I imagine Mario reluctantly plays along in the end to avoid disappointing Luigi, who seems quite eager to take part in this madcap, daredevil, throw-caution-to-the-wind endeavor with his brother, whose ability to instantly change forth into action without a moment's hesitation (and succeed) he has always admired, in contrast to his far more reserved and occasionally cowardly modus operandi (and maybe he also really wants those extra siblings so he'll no longer be the youngest). Of course, we could always make this (and Mario's reluctance) still more explicit in the dialogue, and also have Luigi walk straight over to the platform himself and look on at Mario with proud and admiring eyes, Mario looking embarrassed, as he knows this is not a good idea, but can't let his brother down, finally reluctantly consenting, to the latter's joy. Something of a silly scene, no doubt, but the Marios revel in that sort of thing.

---

Now, a question for you all concerning the World 2 boss. In my initial summary, I suggested the idea of having a mad Dryad who wants to wipe out most of the plants in the forest, considering them but twisted, ugly parodies of her own of beautiful pets (i.e. the Piranha Plants, spiky Muncher vines and the like), and thus supporting Norveg's destruction of this habitat. This seemed to me to be most fitting in light of what we actually have in the castle level--this forest sprite is not, after all, living out among the trees as expected, but has locked herself away in a stone fortress filled with lots of weird and unusual plants, which puts me in mind of the sort of curious urban hermit/animal enthusiast who shuns contact with their fellow humans in favor of locking themselves away in an apartment filled with pigeons, pugs, or some other less-than-attractive but highly unique animal which they value above all other related breeds or species. What's more more, the poison flowing out into the forest seen earlier in the level seems to be flowing directly out of the castle, suggesting its inhabitant is, to say the least, quite unfond of the plantlife outside, and ostensibly trying to wipe it out in favor of the fish-flowers within. Hence my suggestion of a Dryad who acts decidedly contrary to type-casting, and actually ends up supporting our industrialist's deforestation efforts--something which incidentally supports my view or Norveg as someone who presumably has good persuasive skills (as befits a businessman), and skill at attracting a rather diverse group of individuals with a diverse set of goals to work for him (as represented by his set of henchmen).

However, Ludus--whom it's important to note was indeed the actually creator of the original Dryad design, plus the in-game graphics--favored a different idea, namely one who mistakes Mario for one of Norveg's associates. To quote:

Originally posted by Ludus
And so I don't think Dryad is said to be at Norveg's side, but against him for trying to industrialize her forest. When Mario arrives at where she is placed, she then thinks Mario is there to take the forest in Norveg's name, so she attacks, leading Mario to explain he is against Norveg after the battle.


Now, that does admittedly strike me as being a little close to what we have planned for the Dreamer, but never you mind what I think--what do you think? Would you rather see a mad Dryad who wants to wipe out the trees and create a world of Piranha Plants and other unusual flora, or would you prefer one who mistakes Mario for his own enemy, in a tragic case of mistaken identity leading to a conflict between would-be allies? Bear in mind that at least from my perspective, it would be just as easy to write the character in either direction, so choose whichever personally strikes you as the most interesting or appealing.
Personally I like the idea of the Dryad seeing Mario as an enemy, just because its different. That's my vote
My vote has to go to Rameau's Nephew's idea, simply because I think it'll make for a more memorable character. The general idea seems to be somewhat similar to King Croachus from Super Paper Mario, a narcissistic geometry flower with a... mental disorder of some sort, and I'd really like to see another character like that.
I just realized something: what if the player is playing as Luigi?

Then Luigi would also have to be in every cutscene and would have to act the same way as Mario (in context).

That is, if I finish Luigi, which is about half of a half yy-chr page done.

I suck at my fractions.

Also, I love a twisted dryad who goes against her species' personality.
I'm pretty sure this is going to be one player only, much like the original SMWCP, and indeed rather a lot of major hacks these days.
Then how about my hardwork Q.Q
He'll at least be in the intro, World 5, and possibly the ending (though there's little use in thinking too concretely about the last of these until we have a fully functional final stage and boss). So he'll still have his presence in the hack. No need to convert every single pose, though.
Does anything actually speak against having two player support right now?
The old SMWCP simply abandoned Luigi because shit was broken with him all over the place, but iff that isn't the case here, then removing him sounds kind of unnecessary.
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Forum Index - Events - SMW Central Production 2 - Plot Discussion Thread

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