| (Discussion) 5th Annual SMWCentral Level Design Competition |
|
Forum Index - Archive - Old Contests & Events - (Discussion) 5th Annual SMWCentral Level Design Competition |
|
|
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-06 02:58:56 PM |
Link |
|
I was watching the stream last night and commenting on the levels as well. That Egyptian level was good besides the palette, and quite frankly a few touch ups in that department (such as adding some blue) would make it perfect for a fun level.
Yet there were quite a few that were downright horrible. At least that Kaleidoscope Castle gave a great joke to Mario trippin' on acid the rest of the night.
My girlfriend even watched and said that a lot of the levels were horrible. She isn't an adept player, sure, but that should say something else.
A Few Blurry Memories
I couldn't really find anything too wrong with this level besides the key. You don't have any clues to lead off how to get the key and having to backtrack just to figure that out without any hints whatsoever makes it quite annoying. Once I reached the end of the level and realized the key is the only way out, this made it pretty bad. That is the only bad design decision here I can point out.
Toffee Terrain
Once again, nothing really bad bringing this down. The biggest problem is that the pacing is too long. It does seem to last too long for its own good as I was already getting tired of the elements before reaching the end. A few screens shorter could have helped. Maybe it is just me.
At Diamond Level
First the background should not be very similar in color as the foreground. This can be very distracting to pinpoint elements of a level. While it wasn't atrocious, it could be tweaked more. Another thing I noticed in the level was a lot of what is in this screenshot. That is, you had powerups and blocks to hit but you put as many obstacles to reach them as possible. If they were really good bonus items, sure, add an obstacle here and there. For instances like coin blocks and powerups, this isn't good. This is at the Midpoint and instead of encouraging players to get the Mushroom powerup here, you make players second guess if they should even bother with that. Cleaning up would require removal of elements in these areas. You don't want to deter players from gathering items so commonplace.
Athleticus Maxiumus
Encouraging the players to use the platforms is one thing. Encouraging them to use them and then race ahead to jump on them before they crash down is bad design. You could encourage them to do this for extras like coins, powerups, and lives, but to make it part of the default path is harsh and uninviting, even if it is supposed to be a challenge. Alternate paths would make this excusable, providing incentive to play through the level once more for the goods.
Autumn Dragon
I could not play through this level because this happened, either indicating an error occured in patching and wasn't tested or the hack wasn't tested that well to begin with. This is something you double-check before even sending.
Beach Cavern
There is so much red here that it is painful to look at. Enemies blend in very well (especially the beetles) and the amount of red/orange here is excruciating.
Autoscroll levels are about not knowing what is up ahead but giving the player ample amounts of navigation and warning before having to worry about an obstacle. This right here is absolutely dickish. No player can have the knowledge that a shell will come crashing down when they are making a jump to a platform that looks safe. Perhaps extending the area where the Koopa walks and placing the shell a few tiles to the left of the Koopa will warn players and give the Koopa enough time to walk over and pose a threat to the player. Otherwise, this is a cheap hit.
After going through three different segments, the midpoint appears. This already frustrated me. Now I know the level is going to last even longer than it should have. You could have put this midpoint before the autoscrolling segment and that would have improved things, but...
This is busy work for the player. Having to wait to navigate is boring and tiresome, and none of the paths are really optional or enticing to warrant a challenge to the player. This was used one time in SMW and for a good reason, and even then there were bonus goodies hidden if you took the hard path to get to them.
Mario's climbing ability isn't very good in that he can only move in 4 directions at one time. To have to navigate this with pretty bad controls is not... ideal.
Then punishing the player for pacing themselves is just a dick move. Not even funny. Just a dick move.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-06 02:59:57 PM |
Link |
|
Originally posted by SokobansolverOriginally posted by S.N.N.stuffing too much into one hack
Sounds like my level could have been like that, though you don't have to disclose such info just yet. My level took roughly six minutes for one playthrough because I basically put so much stuff in it and I had so many ideas. I kinda had a 'live for the moment' mentality.
There were some ideas I liked but scrapped because they were not consistently possible without taking a hit. One of the scrapped ideas was having to dodge a Thwomp and a Podoboo in tandem inside a cramped layer 2 rising up and down. The exact setup would have been Kaizo and required savestates. In other words, too hard.
In fact, there are many ideas that look pretty doable in Lunar Magic, but when you play the game, the idea does not work the way you expected it to work. Today, I just noticed a game-breaking issue in my level. What if the player breaks the throw block instead of using it on the turn block? Then the player is stuck, and has to wait for time to run out. I had not initially thought of it, since I did not consider the possibility of the player breaking the throw block (after all, I made it blatantly obvious that you had to use the throw block on the turn block). However, what I should have done is given the player a suicide option if he does something stupid like throwing away the throw block. Waiting for time to run out is one of the worst things that could happen to a player.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-06 03:11:42 PM |
Link |
|
Originally posted by matheleteHowever, what I should have done is given the player a suicide option if he does something stupid like throwing away the throw block.
Or you could have just not required the throw block to complete the level. Throwing a throw block is not "stupid", it's what people naturally do. They are very temporary things, and your first instinct is to throw them before they go "poof."
I'm not sure anything we've said has really sunk in...
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-06 03:18:53 PM |
Link |
|
Originally posted by matheleteHowever, what I should have done is given the player a suicide option if he does something stupid like throwing away the throw block. Waiting for time to run out is one of the worst things that could happen to a player.
This is a bad design decision. Anything that would involve the player messing up and requiring him to kill himself is a bad bad idea. It would frustrate players as they would have to restart the entire level just because they got rid of something that can be easily destroyed.
Throw blocks are always in plenty in the original game. Why? You throw them away, that's why. Big Boo's battle had plenty of blocks to throw around in case you messed up. There was never an instance where you had only the necessary throw blocks needed to complete an entire level and one mistake cost you a life.
Really that is a bad decision, even in a challenging level. In those cases, there would be less throw blocks, but still more than needed to progress.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-06 03:26:32 PM |
Link |
|
Originally posted by AxemJinxI can't take this kind of pressure
I must confess one more contest hack
Would be just a hack too long
Originally posted by SMWCentralWorthless...
Originally posted by FirephoenixI just can't, I just can't
I just can't seem to get started!
Don't have the heart to give all this feedback
All that has passed and gone
Originally posted by SMWCentralWorthless!
Originally posted by S.N.N.And there ain't nothing you can do about it
Originally posted by SMWCentralWorthless!
Originally posted by AxemJinxPardon me while I panic!
Originally posted by SMWCentralWorthless! Worthless! Worthless!
Originally posted by BMF54123I once made some popular levels
I must confess I'm impressed how I did
And I wonder how close that I came
Now I get a sinking sensation
I was the top of the line, out of sight out of mind
So much for fortune and fame
Originally posted by MrDeePayI took a hack to a graveyard
I beg your pardon, it's quite hard enough
Just living with the stuff I have learned
Originally posted by SMWCentralWorthless...
Originally posted by S.N.N.Once in a collaboration
I put the hacks in a pack with a hope
They were happy until I heard them say
Originally posted by SMWCentral"They're worthless"
(Just some lighthearted self-deprecating humor :b)
Oh, and thanks for the feedback, guys. I kind of have a non-disclosure agreement here, so it's good to see some back-and-forth happening nonetheless.
|
| Last edited on 2012-03-06 03:33:26 PM by AxemJinx. |
|
| Posted on 2012-03-06 03:32:26 PM |
Link |
|
|
Thanks for the review cpubasic. I appreciate all the criticism you have given. I will take all those points into account when I do another level.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-06 03:38:43 PM |
Link |
|
Originally posted by cpubasic13Originally posted by matheleteHowever, what I should have done is given the player a suicide option if he does something stupid like throwing away the throw block. Waiting for time to run out is one of the worst things that could happen to a player.
This is a bad design decision. Anything that would involve the player messing up and requiring him to kill himself is a bad bad idea. It would frustrate players as they would have to restart the entire level just because they got rid of something that can be easily destroyed.
Throw blocks are always in plenty in the original game. Why? You throw them away, that's why. Big Boo's battle had plenty of blocks to throw around in case you messed up. There was never an instance where you had only the necessary throw blocks needed to complete an entire level and one mistake cost you a life.
Really that is a bad decision, even in a challenging level. In those cases, there would be less throw blocks, but still more than needed to progress.
Actually, you are right, I think a reset door would be nice incase they screw up.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-06 03:46:07 PM |
Link |
|
Originally posted by MorselSome other entries I liked have been well-received in this thread, but I would like to single out forty2's snake
hell yeah somebody actually played my level
As for difficult levels not being fun, I shall once again bring up my love of Super Meat Boy because it seems at least tangentially relevant. Anyone else who has beaten that game probably understands my point of view.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-06 03:53:01 PM |
Link |
|
|
I'm still up for knowing what was actually bad in my level (Kaleidoscope Castle). The people I've had actually test it were too nice to spit any criticism.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-06 04:01:20 PM |
Link |
|
Originally posted by SargeI'm still up for knowing what was actually bad in my level (Kaleidoscope Castle). The people I've had actually test it were too nice to spit any criticism.
It was quite long, and dragged a bit... It was also repetitive ("oh hey, it's thwomps again! Yay! >:|" sort of style) , and had magikoopa sections without any flat ground, so the player had to wait and dodge while the magikoopa dicked around. The colors were kinda dark, and it made it really hard to see, and you hid spikes and thwomps and stuff a lot. Players don't like being hit with stuff they didn't see coming. It's pretty unfair.
It was a really neat concept, just not executed perfectly. I personally would've liked to see it with brighter colors at the least, and darker colors in the background to set it out more. Maybe make it a bit shorter, and try some different concepts for enemy placement next time.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-06 04:05:52 PM |
Link |
|
Originally posted by SargeI'm still up for knowing what was actually bad in my level (Kaleidoscope Castle). The people I've had actually test it were too nice to spit any criticism.
For one, your choice of palettes. It's cool what you did with the ExAnimation, but your colors, especially in contrast with the background, were too dark and it had a tendency to make important platforms difficult to see.
There were also a lot of very challenging jumps and enemy setups with very little safe room between. Combined with the overall lack of powerups, there was almost no room for error in your level.
At a couple places, you have to have a Magikoopa destroy walls of turn blocks, and he has a very annoying tendency to spawn in places where he cannot hit the blocks (The second one can spawn in a completely enclosed space that appears to just be a decorative mesh window).
There were more issues, but these immediately sprang to my mind.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-06 04:08:10 PM |
Link |
|
Originally posted by SargeI'm still up for knowing what was actually bad in my level (Kaleidoscope Castle). The people I've had actually test it were too nice to spit any criticism.
Contrast and not hiding hazards behind the status bar are your friend.
|
| Last edited on 2012-03-06 04:08:54 PM by MrDeePay. |
|
| Posted on 2012-03-06 04:11:26 PM |
Link |
|
|
It's funny, one of the things I was trying to avoid was hiding stuff (Hints to why all the drapes with spikes behind them had holes). Also any specific spots that you remember that the statusbar got in the way?
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-06 04:17:24 PM |
Link |
|
Originally posted by cpubasic13A Few Blurry Memories
I couldn't really find anything too wrong with this level besides the key. You don't have any clues to lead off how to get the key and having to backtrack just to figure that out without any hints whatsoever makes it quite annoying. Once I reached the end of the level and realized the key is the only way out, this made it pretty bad. That is the only bad design decision here I can point out.
hey that was my entry.
i've been looking for criticisms because i think my entry isn't as good as it could have been. i realize basing the whole theme around finding the key and using different items would turn some people off. so i figure that i won't place as high as i did last time i participated in the vanilla contest, in 2010. but the whole idea is that you have to take the time to explore the pipes, some have items you need, like a springboard, and others are just bonus areas, like the switch palace room with the coins. it's like a memory game, you have to remember after going in the pipes what was in there and if it was needed somewhere else. essentially it's a puzzle, which again i realize some people won't like. that's really why it's called, A Few Blurry Memories, because you have to remember what was in what pipe and how it will help you find the key. had i just pointed you to the direction of the key there would be nothing interesting or too unique about it.
and hey, thanks for the critique dude. :)
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-06 04:19:27 PM |
Link |
|
Originally posted by SargeIt's funny, one of the things I was trying to avoid was hiding stuff (Hints to why all the drapes with spikes behind them had holes). Also any specific spots that you remember that the statusbar got in the way?
A lot of ceiling spikes were pretty hidden by the status bar.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-06 04:25:52 PM |
Link |
|
Originally posted by MrDeePayOriginally posted by SargeI'm still up for knowing what was actually bad in my level (Kaleidoscope Castle). The people I've had actually test it were too nice to spit any criticism.
Contrast and not hiding hazards behind the status bar are your friend.
Where didn't it?
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-06 04:33:08 PM |
Link |
|
Originally posted by Forty2As for difficult levels not being fun, I shall once again bring up my love of Super Meat Boy because it seems at least tangentially relevant. Anyone else who has beaten that game probably understands my point of view.
Except Super Meat Boy had infinite lives, respawned instantly, had appropriate physics and abilities for the challenges he was presented with, and didn't have to slog through 75 screens of hell per level.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-06 04:39:48 PM |
Link |
|
Originally posted by MrDeePayOriginally posted by SargeI'm still up for knowing what was actually bad in my level (Kaleidoscope Castle). The people I've had actually test it were too nice to spit any criticism.
Contrast and not hiding hazards behind the status bar are your friend.
Intersting...I never imagined that the status bar could hide a hazard. I think an easy way to avoid this is to watch the y position of hazards. I think the top row is a bad place to hide the hazard, since the status bar has layer priority over everything else.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-06 04:49:43 PM |
Link |
|
|
Funny, I thought everyone knew that already.
|
|
| Posted on 2012-03-06 04:54:31 PM |
Link |
|
|
Well, I never thought it would be a problem since I never put a hazard on the very top row. So it never came to me that this is a posibility.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Index - Archive - Old Contests & Events - (Discussion) 5th Annual SMWCentral Level Design Competition |
