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| (Discussion) 5th Annual SMWCentral Level Design Competition |
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Forum Index - Archive - Old Contests & Events - (Discussion) 5th Annual SMWCentral Level Design Competition |
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| Posted on 2012-03-13 04:30:29 PM |
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Originally posted by YonowaaruSure; there's no reason to believe anyone. Well, believing may be a strong word. I will still read everyone's comments just like yours, and my thoughts on level design will probably change because of that. I'm just not going to accept the exact things you say since I have different values than you do.
What Axem said.
Quote(By the way, were the other two judges supposed to be already revealed?)
Originally posted by MrDeePayIf there's "no reason for someone to completely believe what I say", then there's "no reason for someone to completely believe what Axem or FirePhoenix says," either.
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| Posted on 2012-03-13 04:59:51 PM |
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To add on to what AxemJinx said, criticisms aren't the only way to improve upon level design. There are other ways, namely learning from good designs.
Designers who seriously wish to improve upon their level design skills for future contests should probably consider taking the time to study other contest entries, namely the ones that have been getting high praise. Just play through these levels, take a good look at how the objects are used, how the enemies are set up, item usage, etc.. Figure out where the difficulty (if considerable) is coming from. Take into account how their levels flow. If you can figure out why these levels are held up to be examples of good design, then you should be able to apply this knowledge to your own levels in the future.
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| Last edited on 2012-03-13 05:00:17 PM by GeminiRage. |
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| Posted on 2012-03-13 06:56:32 PM |
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Originally posted by GeminiRage
Designers who seriously wish to improve upon their level design skills for future contests should probably consider taking the time to study other contest entries, namely the ones that have been getting high praise. Just play through these levels, take a good look at how the objects are used, how the enemies are set up, item usage, etc.. Figure out where the difficulty (if considerable) is coming from. Take into account how their levels flow. If you can figure out why these levels are held up to be examples of good design, then you should be able to apply this knowledge to your own levels in the future.
A lot of how I learned to make a better level applies to this. Another way I found is by looking at bad entries and figuring out how it went wrong. Sometimes, it takes a few bad or mediocre levels to start making better levels.
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| Posted on 2012-03-13 07:13:06 PM |
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Why do these level contests always lead to more people feeling pissed at the end of them than people who are actually satisfied and had fun?
I'm not just talking about the people who got a low score either.
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| Posted on 2012-03-13 07:14:10 PM |
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Because noone wants to have a good time.
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| Posted on 2012-03-13 07:36:46 PM |
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Originally posted by S.N.N.Why do these level contests always lead to more people feeling pissed at the end of them than people who are actually satisfied and had fun?
I'm not just talking about the people who got a low score either.
I wouldn't exactly say we're pissed. We're more annoyed about the fact some of these folks insisted upon defending their levels when they clearly didn't know what they should've been doing here to begin with. If they didn't do that, we'd be moving along just fine. Just accept that it's over and done with and move on! There's no use crying over spilled milk!
I personally had fun with this contest, and I enjoyed playing through most of the other entries this year.
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| Posted on 2012-03-13 07:47:42 PM |
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Yeah, I understand, but if people are going to defend their levels to the bitter end - especially when they suck - why would you (generally, not you specifically) even bother wasting your time arguing with them? They have no willingness to improve, so let them continue making bad levels. What the judges and other people feedbacking should focus on is those who actually want to learn, and as of late, there's been a lot of unnecessary jabbing in this thread it seems.
Dunno. Just my two cents based on the past few pages.
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| Posted on 2012-03-13 08:25:50 PM |
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Originally posted by S.N.N.Yeah, I understand, but if people are going to defend their levels to the bitter end - especially when they suck - why would you (generally, not you specifically) even bother wasting your time arguing with them?
I suppose in my case, it's because I refuse to dismiss out of hand such users as helpless cases. It would appear you think otherwise, but I don't feel their willingness to learn and improve is so easy to measure (and round down). Of course, like you said, nobody's forcing designers to make levels in a certain way, but all the same, I'd argue it's important for designers to understand why their levels aren't considered a good fit for the contest overall.
Originally posted by S.N.N.What the judges and other people feedbacking should focus on is those who actually want to learn
I don't disagree, but this is something I can't really do until all the judging is done. I've already said I'm willing to answer follow-up questions when the time comes, but in the meantime, I'm trying not to say too much.
Also, who's pissed, exactly? I was under the impression most of the designers are merely patiently waiting for the results to be posted, and hoping for a bit of feedback on the side in the meantime.
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| Posted on 2012-03-13 08:39:04 PM |
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From what I saw, the judges were given until the end of March to evaluate all of the entries. We don't even know how many judges there are this year, and the ones who have made themselves known claim to have played through all of the levels. IIRC, AxemJinx said he was going to do another playthrough of the levels just to reaffirm his decisions.
Another thing that was mentioned in the contest rules was that extensions could be given for the judging period. I would hope none of the judges are procrastinating on this to warrant an extension. If SMWCP2 taught me anything, it's that procrastination is abundant among SMWCentral's userbase.
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| Last edited on 2012-03-13 08:41:20 PM by GeminiRage. |
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| Posted on 2012-03-13 08:43:35 PM |
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Originally posted by GeminiRageWe don't even know how many judges there are this year, and the ones who have made themselves known claim to have played through all of the levels.
Originally posted by MrDeePayIf there's "no reason for someone to completely believe what I say", then there's "no reason for someone to completely believe what Axem or FirePhoenix says," either.
I'm going to assume based on this comment that there are only three judges.
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| Last edited on 2012-03-13 08:43:49 PM by TRS. |
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| Posted on 2012-03-13 09:03:24 PM |
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Unless the information I was given is outdated, SNN and Tatanga are not judges.
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| Posted on 2012-03-13 09:32:22 PM |
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I don't know why, but I just assumed there were only three judges. Could've sworn that was like 'made known' at some point.
fake-dit: QuoteIn addition, the judges will remain anonymous at least until the judging period begins.
Curse you, my memory!!!11
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| Posted on 2012-03-13 09:52:56 PM |
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Originally posted by GeminiRageIIRC, AxemJinx said he was going to do another playthrough of the levels just to reaffirm his decisions.
I've indeed already done this, so, barring any changes during deliberations, my judging is complete as of a couple of days ago. Mind you, it's not like I've made major sweeping changes since March 1st/2nd.
Also, unless Firephoenix is withholding information from me, there are three judges this year- Firephoenix, MrDeePay, and myself. I doubt there are any others, as that would have precluded my involvement in the first place.
Personally I'm hoping for the results to be in by April 1st, but keep in mind that free time is limited, and writing out feedback takes quite a bit of effort, whether it's in paragraphs or bullet points or something else altogether.
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| Posted on 2012-03-13 09:54:51 PM |
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To anyone that had played my level, I have two questions about it:
Is the difficulty of the level fair?
Are there any parts in the level that felt confusing?
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| Posted on 2012-03-13 10:02:16 PM |
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Originally posted by AxemJinxPersonally I'm hoping for the results to be in by April 1st Indeed, and 9" Nails comes in first, and everyone is confused for 20 minutes until they get rickrolled.
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| Last edited on 2012-03-13 10:05:28 PM by AUS. |
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| Posted on 2012-03-13 10:06:05 PM |
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Strange...why did someone on IRC tell me that tatanga and SNN were judges???
Anyway, I guess it should remain anonymous. 3 of them have already been revealed, and I don't think anymore need to be revealed.
@AUS
I laughed so hard reading your post. I actually think that a better joke would be to say that Spy's entry came in first (Spy was the one with the corrupt ips patch).
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| Last edited on 2012-03-13 10:07:51 PM by mathelete. |
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| Posted on 2012-03-13 10:10:17 PM |
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Someone mentioned tatanga as a judge earlier in the thread, but was talking about a previous contest, not this one. It might be that whoever told you this got their facts confused.
About SNN, he's judged several things in the past, so it is incredibly likely that someone would think he's judging this one.
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| Posted on 2012-03-13 10:43:07 PM |
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Originally posted by notgoodwithusernamesTo anyone that had played my level, I have two questions about it:
Is the difficulty of the level fair?
Are there any parts in the level that felt confusing?
As a gimmick, it's clever. As a level design, there were some flaws.
-I couldn't find any way around the fourth Climbing Koopa, and I was forced to take a hurt. No mushroom? Gotta die.
-At one point, Koopa Hopping is required. However, it's possible to bop the first one's head while hanging onto the fence, making it nearly impossible to clear the jump without him.
-It wasn't obvious that there was a Brown Block Train Sprite when I came across that formation of brown blocks.
-Speaking of that part, if you trigger the Brown Block Train at the wrong moment, you may be forced to take a hurt because the Climbing Koopas are in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Disregarding those issues, the difficulty was fine. No cheap ambushes, the falling block segments were reasonable and there wasn't any real powerup discrimination.
The level was really more of a puzzle, apart from the spot I mentioned where I had to take a hurt, most of it boiled down to simply taking a look at what was there, and using it.
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| Last edited on 2012-03-13 10:45:25 PM by GeminiRage. |
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| Posted on 2012-03-13 10:52:58 PM |
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Originally posted by GeminiRage-I couldn't find any way around the fourth Climbing Koopa, and I was forced to take a hurt. No mushroom? Gotta die.
Ride the Flying Question block at the bottom back to a fence door, hit that and go on through.
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| Posted on 2012-03-13 11:03:17 PM |
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Originally posted by MrDeePayOriginally posted by GeminiRage-I couldn't find any way around the fourth Climbing Koopa, and I was forced to take a hurt. No mushroom? Gotta die.
Ride the Flying Question block at the bottom back to a fence door, hit that and go on through.
I assumed that block was only for getting a Yoshi Coin...
In my opinion, it would've been better to have other, more visible means to get back to the door, such as a back-and-forth flying block above the gap.
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| Last edited on 2012-03-13 11:05:44 PM by GeminiRage. |
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Forum Index - Archive - Old Contests & Events - (Discussion) 5th Annual SMWCentral Level Design Competition |
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