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[Complete] 117 - Dynamic Disarray - Giant Shy Guy
Forum Index - Events - SMW Central Production 2 - World 6 - [Complete] 117 - Dynamic Disarray - Giant Shy Guy
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Okay, had a chance to test this out and I don't know if you've actually listened to MrDeePay. For me though it was just okay, there are now moments of pure lives farming and enemies that really have nothing to do with this level at all.

Screen 0: Why is there a 1-Up in the block?

Screens 3-4: You can spam a 1-Up here if done right (in fact you can spam 3).

Screen 5: Roto-Disks don't fit this level.

Screens A-B: Flying Koopas coming in and out of the floor just doesn't make sense to me.

I think I know why this Pop Vehicle isn't molded to work for HIGH and LOW sections of this level because you can't effectively use enemies here and you'll never be able to see some of them if you always stay on the bottom or the top. Most of the enemies now are enemies that either cannot be shot down or are respawned. Invincible enemies paired with a Pop Vehicle that can shoot enemies down kind of defeats the purpose of having a pop car to begin with. This area should really be a shoot 'em up kind of level instead it's more of an avoid 'em all kind of level.

I almost could say that the before one was better.
.. I actually had real fun while playing this and can't really complain about anything.
It was fun that you could/had to destroy blocks and get tiny rewards inside them, the torpedo teds were a neat little touch and don't feel out of place (especially when the GFX for it arrive), thus only complementing the level, and the roto disc setups (how do they not fit) were fun to dodge and looked quite clever too.

I really don't feel like this should be a pure shoot em up level, the mixture right now is just how I personally would like it, GSS seems to think the same, and seeing how it's only the start of the level I hope that it will pick up on difficulty later on, because this difficulty was great to introduce it (and got a little harder near the end), but won't cut it for world 6 if it stays like this (I hope you don't consider this to be a major part of the level, because it felt quite short).

And Koopas flying through clouds don't make sense? What?

On top of that, I probably am too stupid, but I couldn't find a single 1-up farming spot, and even if they are that damn obvious as you make them out to be, we can always apply levelasm to negate them (if it's the kind of 1-up farming I'm thinking of).

I get the feeling you're trying too hard to turn this into the level you like, and not the level GSS wants to design..


Didn't encounter any slowdown by the way and didn't even check C9.

EDIT: By the way, you didn't sync up the animation correctly.
Check dis and look at the ted shooter to the left.
Last edited on 2012-02-28 03:03:06 PM by leod.
Originally posted by cstutor89
Screen 0: Why is there a 1-Up in the block?


Oh shoot. I forgot to mention to ignore that; it's for my own purposes.

Originally posted by cstutor89
Screens 3-4: You can spam a 1-Up here if done right (in fact you can spam 3).


I'll see about that...

[quote-cstutor89]Screen 5: Roto-Disks don't fit this level.</div></div>

Actually, the original Sky Pop level included Roto-Discs

Originally posted by cstutor89
Screens A-B: Flying Koopas coming in and out of the floor just doesn't make sense to me.


Hmm...I knew that priority thing will be a problem...

The flying Koopas are hard to work with anyways...especially that generator...I'll see what I can do.

Originally posted by cstutor89
I think I know why this Pop Vehicle isn't molded to work for HIGH and LOW sections of this level because you can't effectively use enemies here and you'll never be able to see some of them if you always stay on the bottom or the top.


I get what you're saying; actually. When I looked at the original Pop levels, you can see everything; no scrolling or down. I actually have a form of the level (that I scrapped, although saved...but it still sucks) that is only one long, everything is there screen.

Should I stick with that idea? Because I'm starting to get a feeling that the mechanics of SMW isn't made for the mechanics of Super Mario Land.

Originally posted by cstutor89
Most of the enemies now are enemies that either cannot be shot down or are respawned. Invincible enemies paired with a Pop Vehicle that can shoot enemies down kind of defeats the purpose of having a pop car to begin with. This area should really be a shoot 'em up kind of level instead it's more of an avoid 'em all kind of level.</div></div>

Now this is what I needed; thanks!

Hmm...the problem is that there is very few "flying" sprites that can't be killed by stomping.

And if there was, it's either to slow, or doesn't fly across the screen. (Those Sparabuzzies are good, if they didn't stay in one position...)

The Koopa Para-Troopas are fairly easy to kill (except the jumping ones...)

Teds are too slow. Super Koopas are just ugh. Those Goonies we're stupid.

Hmm....

I really need suggestions here. Does anyone know any sprite that "acts" like the one in the original Pop levels?






Or maybe should I scrap the whole idea altogether and work on the Rotational Platforms and Donut Lifts? (Although I really like the Pop...)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

EDIT:

Wow, I was about to post and a wholly new perspective comes up.

Originally posted by leod
It was fun that you could/had to destroy blocks and get tiny rewards inside them, the torpedo teds were a neat little touch and don't feel out of place (especially when the GFX for it arrive), thus only complementing the level, and the roto disc setups (how do they not fit) were fun to dodge and looked quite clever too.


Thanks!

Originally posted by leod
I really don't feel like this should be a pure shoot em up level, the mixture right now is just how I personally would like it, GSG seems to think the same, and seeing how it's only the start of the level I hope that it will pick up on difficulty later on, because this difficulty was great to introduce it (and got a little harder near the end), but won't cut it for world 6 if it stays like this (I hope you don't consider this to be a major part of the level, because it felt quite short).


It's only a transition phase; I plan to convey some kind of story where Mario has to ride and fly to the Blue Switch Palace, which is C9. It's gonna be short...so yeah...I'm thinking of having the Blue Switch on a floating island on the W6 MAP to make it more obvious.

Originally posted by leod
And Koopas flying through clouds don't make sense? What?


I think he means the Koopas who come out of the ground; those too low below Mario that they just end up getting stomped.

Originally posted by leod
On top of that, I probably am too stupid, but I couldn't find a single 1-up farming spot, and even if they are that damn obvious as you make them out to be, we can always apply levelasm to negate them (if it's the kind of 1-up farming I'm thinking of).


That one 1-Up block in the first screen (for my convenience, since I regularly die playing levels and I don't know how to instantly save a state nor do rewinds...and i'm not planning to learn)

And also the first "gateway" screen with the random Koopas that show surprises the player to make them learn that you can shoot things.

Originally posted by leod
I get the feeling you're trying too hard to turn this into the level you like, and not the level GSG wants to design...


Actually, I kinda do lean on what cs (and MrDeePay) is trying to say about some things...although I might disagree with some, I need to take it in for consideration, since what I was aiming for with this "gateway" is to have an SML throwback that feels modern enough.


Originally posted by leod
Didn't encounter any slowdown by the way and didn't even check C9.


You didn't O.o?

Wow. Hm...I need to do something about my computer then...

Anywho, thanks fo rthe feedback you two!

BRING IN SOME MORE!


EDIT:



Oh yeah. I noticed that thing...I always forget to fix it ;/

Also...I was hoping it wouldn't happen; some times that Roto-Disc in the middle doesn't spawn...I need to do something about that...

EDIT:

I forgot to mention too; Ignore that ugly sound effect that the Sky Pop Torpedo makes...also, how slow it is in its current form...I need to make it faster so the player has doesn't have to get stuck waiting for the Torpedoes to go away...

Also, I need to stop abusing ellipsis, I just noticed.

~~~~

EDITEDIT:

Also, for convenience:

W2-3 Marine Pop
W4-3 Sky Pop
Last edited on 2012-02-28 03:32:11 PM by Punk Sarcophagus.
What I really was saying is why have a pop car that shoots things in an area where you can't really shoot anything without it respawning or being invincible? Why not have just a shotless pop car? In fact I didn't really mention design at all, frankly because I didn't have a problem with it. It's just the enemy choices which when supplemented with the right graphics could fit this level.

Actually I don't think I've ever said that this level was bad, in fact I've praised it before. Even though I don't like it as much as I did before, I don't think it's a candidate that needs to start over or even be changed too much design wise. I find it kind of rude to attack me just because I didn't like it as much as you did and criticize some points that I was trying to make.

@GSG, It's fine. I don't have too much problems with this level, just eliminate the 1-Up farming with the Koopas at the beginning and you'll find.

Roto-Disks were in the original level? Okay, don't change it.
Originally posted by cstutor89
What I really was saying is why have a pop car that shoots things in an area where you can't really shoot anything without it respawning or being invincible? Why not have just a shotless pop car? In fact I didn't really mention design at all, frankly because I didn't have a problem with it. It's just the enemy choices which when supplemented with the right graphics could fit this level.


I do agree with enemy choices, actually. I have went through the level before without shooting (except for bricks) for the the heck of it; probably three to four days ago?

But yeah... Sparabuzzies, anyone?

Originally posted by cstutor89
@GSG, It's fine. I don't have too much problems with this level, just eliminate the 1-Up farming with the Koopas at the beginning and you'll find.


Fixed =D

I love Sparabuzzies now =D

Originally posted by cstutor89
Roto-Disks were in the original level? Okay, don't change it.


Okay although you didn't have to shoot me a PM; but oh well

~

Whew. Hmm...

I'll see what I can do...those Teds are currently very underused...

Also, cs, could you tell me what was differences with the first version of the level, and with this one? (Other than the less shooting more dodging...if there are any things other than that)

I would really appreciate it; if I can make a level that is generally liked, I'm all for it ;D
Originally posted by Giant Shy Guy


Okay although you didn't have to shoot me a PM; but oh well



Sorry about that... lol.

Originally posted by Giant Shy Guy


I'll see what I can do...those Teds are currently very underused...

Also, cs, could you tell me what was differences with the first version of the level, and with this one? (Other than the less shooting more dodging...if there are any things other than that)

I would really appreciate it; if I can make a level that is generally liked, I'm all for it ;D


Maybe a few Red Vertical or Horizontal Koopas and/or Blue Circular Koopas would be good to have.
How did I attack you, cstutor?

Originally posted by cstutor
What I really was saying is why have a pop car that shoots things in an area where you can't really shoot anything without it respawning or being invincible?

For the shits and giggles while shooting at blocks and gathering little rewards, which are basically pointless but still fun.
Also being able to shoot at all kind of adds a little dynamic to it, maybe GSS could add some shootable stuff (eg teds) to the roto disc sections?
That would make it a little more dynamic, give the shooting a better reason of existence and up the difficulty a little.

The shooting speed doesn't really feel too slow to me, the player will just have to learn not to spam the shots, but rather use them a tiny little bit more strategically.

By the way, you can interact funnily with those flying bug thingies that fly in a formation, which could seem kind of strange, but isn't TOO bad.

Also I have no idea what Sparabuzzies are, I'd need to see those before commenting on them.
You kind of made it sound like I was controlling the level even though it was GSG's, but at this point you are right it is GSG's level and he should put whatever he likes in the level so long as it makes sense. I didn't know about the Roto-Disks as I haven't played SML for a long time and that was something that I missed as far as the clouds things. I'm fine with what GSG is doing, as far as I'm concerned majority of the people didn't have a problem with it so I'd continue on GSG and work on the rest of the level.
Originally posted by cstutor89
Originally posted by Giant Shy Guy


Okay although you didn't have to shoot me a PM; but oh well



Sorry about that... lol.


No need to be; I assume it was one of those "panicky" times =D

Originally posted by cstutor89
Originally posted by Giant Shy Guy


I'll see what I can do...those Teds are currently very underused...

Also, cs, could you tell me what was differences with the first version of the level, and with this one? (Other than the less shooting more dodging...if there are any things other than that)

I would really appreciate it; if I can make a level that is generally liked, I'm all for it ;D


Maybe a few Red Vertical or Horizontal Koopas and/or Blue Circular Koopas would be good to have.


Wait, wow.

An I was here thinking they were the second worst (next to the Goonies...ugh) enemies used in the level.

~

Should I still use that Super Koopa generator?

It's one of the worst things I had to work with ;/

well it is my call so might as well

~

Originally posted by leod
Also being able to shoot at all kind of adds a little dynamic to it, maybe GSS could add some shootable stuff (eg teds) to the roto disc sections?


I am actually; I onyl posted this so that I can see what's wrong with the level before continuing on.

Also, it's Giant Shy Guy, for future references ;D

Originally posted by leod
The shooting speed doesn't really feel too slow to me, the player will just have to learn not to spam the shots, but rather use them a tiny little bit more strategically.


.-.

I should stop spamming it then.

Although, it's for screen purposes; the less things on the screen, the better; I had to cut out a lot of strategically placed sprites because of "Pop Torpedo slowdown", as I call it.

Originally posted by leod
By the way, you can interact funnily with those flying bug thingies that fly in a formation, which could seem kind of strange, but isn't TOO bad.


They're Para-Beetles from SMB3 (and NSMBWii). They're not supposed to be white, but I passed them off as that because they're invincible to the Pop Torpedo sprite for some reason (which I didn't expect); I call them "Angelic" versions as an excuse =D

I was gonna cut them, but cs said it was good to have a little variation, since the Pop Torpedo practically kills everything.

Originally posted by leod
Also I have no idea what Sparabuzzies are, I'd need to see those before commenting on them.


It's an original variation of the the Para-Buzzy (not to be confused with the Para-Beetle); Myrkka Mainline of W8 uses them, from what I can remember.

~

Again, thanks to the both of you! I actually like these two perspectives; it helps me a lot!


~

Sigh...

EDIT:

Originally posted by cstutor89
You kind of made it sound like I was controlling the level even though it was GSG's, but at this point you are right it is GSG's level and he should put whatever he likes in the level so long as it makes sense. I didn't know about the Roto-Disks as I haven't played SML for a long time and that was something that I missed as far as the clouds things. I'm fine with what GSG is doing, as far as I'm concerned majority of the people didn't have a problem with it so I'd continue on GSG and work on the rest of the level.


Let's leave it as this please; just little misunderstanding that's fairly already fixed.
Yeah I can't stay mad today, I have soooo much stuff to do and not enough time to do anything lol. Anyways continue on, you're doing fine GSG :).
Last edited on 2012-02-28 05:31:01 PM by cstutor89.
I lied.


Here's an update:

Avant-Garde Avarice

Ignore:
- Life-Ups by stomp at the last section
- 1-Up Block in first screen....it's for my convenience
- ??? I am most certain that I am forgetting something that will be brought up later, but I am hungry and sleepy

Note:
- Tell me any slowdown
- Ted Graphics
- Brick Block Graphics

So yeah...I need sleep...


EDIT;

Rejuvenated =D

Ignore:
- Life-Ups by stomping Super Koopas, which is already fixed thanks to Kip
- 1-Up Block in the firs screen, which is for my own convenience.
- Brick Block Graphics
- Ted Graphics
- Last section, which is doesn't have the switch palace yet
- Pop Torpedo speed and sound; its current speed, with all three on screen, really creates horrible slowdown. The faster I make it go, the better.
- Killable Torpedo Ted Upwards Launcher

Note:
- tell me any instance of slowdown; I applied FastRom already blah blah it'll a problem
- C9 is inaccesible
- PLEASE ATTACK THIS WITH ALL YOUR MIGHT AGAIN!
- Also, I have seen people uploading SMWCP2 levels on YouTube for fun, and for testing...please don't do this to this level. If your showing a glitch or something on YouTube please unlist it. Thanks for your cooperation
Last edited on 2012-03-01 10:27:40 PM by Punk Sarcophagus.
The only problem I had was a little bit of slowdown in two parts - Sections 6 and B. A few of the Flying Koopas don't appear in Sections E-F, just remove a few and that's pretty much it. Good job.
Avant-Garde Avarice 1

Ignore:
- C9 in its ugly form...I just included the way to get there to get it over with
- Ted Graphics
- Brick Block Graphics
- The ability to hold items on the Pop
- Pop Torpedo Slowdown (that is, slowdown caused by the Pop's torpedoes)
- Pop Torpedo Sound
- Killable Upwards Launcher
- C9 is just horrible right now...but you can still kinda play it
- not all pipes are connected in C9
- Those bland blocks at the end of 117
- Midway point in C9 that sends you back to 117; I will have Mario start in C9 for aesthetic reasons

Note:
- 117, for the most part is done...I hope
- Again, criticize the level
- Can play testers test 117 in many ways? There's like, many ways to get through the level...so yeah...
- Note any slowdown blah blah fastrom blah
- Note any instance of unappearing Roto-Discs...they tend to do that sometimes some how
- I have to fix that Upwards Launcher somehow...
An issue you probably aren't aware of yet, is that, when there's a lot of sprites on screen already, you can't fire any torpedos, rendering you helpless in situations like this.

Oh also horrible slowdown a little before here for me, with and without torpedos.

The inside part of the level was really fun by the way, after getting used to those god damn rotator platforms (which thankfully is possible above solid ground) the level played quite fluently, and even though I was thoroughly confused at one point, it never became frustrating, and I loved the little P-Trick room, clever idea there.
Originally posted by leod
An issue you probably aren't aware of yet, is that, when there's a lot of sprites on screen already, you can't fire any torpedos, rendering you helpless in situations like this.


Actually, I'm quite aware of that...but I have never experience it in that section...hmmm...I'll see what I can do.

Originally posted by leod
Oh also horrible slowdown a little before here for me, with and without torpedos.


Fixed...

Originally posted by leod
The inside part of the level was really fun by the way, after getting used to those god damn rotator platforms (which thankfully is possible above solid ground) the level played quite fluently, and even though I was thoroughly confused at one point, it never became frustrating, and I loved the little P-Trick room, clever idea there.


Thanks! Although, I'm quite nervous about one of the concepts of this level, which are treasure rooms, nine to be exact, that give bonuses...

...and 7 rooms at least gives 1 life...(I just checked, probably 15 lives can be taken from the level...hmm...)

I don't really want this level to end up as a farming level, but I don't want to give up the rooms either...

I don't know how to have the player not have access to already visited bonus rooms after completing the level, and still have access to rooms the player hasn't accessed yet.

Hmmm...
Avant-Garde Avarice

The level is practically finished except for the goal roulette and some other stuff.

I'm too hungry and tired to say what to ignore and to note.

Also, I haven't tested the level as a whole; I'm tired of playing the level over and over and over again...

I need my nourishment :i
Let me try...


=========


Well, i like it. It's really a good level.

I confess, I don't like sky pop sections too much, but this one was very fun.


Somethings:





My english may not be perfect, but I guess "Go Mario"" would be better than "Mario Go!"






This room... I don't know... Maybe is just me, but perhaps you could make something more interesting here.





I guess you already noticed that, but, yeah, the donut platforms disappears when Mario stands on it.


Overall, this level looks almost done. Congratulations.
Last edited on 2012-03-05 09:57:17 PM by ShadowAlexandre.

Bad palette on the message box. Also, please add the message into it.

Also, in some bonus room, if you hit the green box with a coin above, the game crashes.

Other than that, Your level is going great.
Okay. Now that I have had my dinner, here is a list of things about the level; my usual stuff:

Ignore:
- Brick Block graphics
- Ted graphics
- The ability to hold items on the Pop
- Pop Torpedo Slowdown (that is, slowdown caused by the Pop's torpedoes)
- Pop Torpedo Sound
- Killable Upwards Launcher
- Those bland blocks at the end of 117
- Midway point in C9 that sends you back to 117; I will have Mario start in C9 for aesthetic reasons
- Missing message from the Switch
- CC, the Switch Room itself, which is fairly unfinished and never tested by me. It just added it to get it over with.
- Missing goal roulette
- Err...uhm...a certain Easter Egg's graphics, if you manage to find it.
- Coin Block glitch; it's a problem in the ROM itself
- Unappearing Roto-Discs
- Horrible, horrible tile placements throughout the level if you check it in LM
- My inability to wholly test this version of the level
- Coin Game Cloud's coin, which used to be a Smiley Coin but it's graphic got replaced; I am trying to remap its tile to the normal coin, and trying to have it use Palette E (I am using a custom, orange palette for it)
- the Special World Shell in CC. I'm gonna look up how to change it's palette so players won't get confused why it takes to stomps to stop the shell
- the very likely idea of this level turning up as a farming level


Note:
- The same old same old: Slowdown. FastROM is applied, and slowdown is a very evil being in this level.
- Please don't post a public video of the level.
- there are 8 bonus rooms; try finding and accessing them all
- My god the slowdown
- One of the concepts of this level was bonus rooms, a trademark and staple from Super Mario games; something a lot of hacks don't include these days. Consequently, the player can, about, get 10-15 lives from this level. I need to work around this
- I love sparabuzzies and P-Tricks <3
- Oh and Koyuki's Roto-Disc
- One of the main gimmicks of this level, the SMB3 rotational bars and see saw, is made by a Japanese hacker and spriter. Props goes to him or her.
- Oh yeah I edited and used the remaining spaces in a couple of graphics files; nothing that would affect levels that uses them.
- oh GOD THAT SLOWDOWN
- I think I found purpose of the unused Purple Coins: they were supposed to be used as guides and such, but might have broke the levels if a P-Swithc was on. Purple Coins used in this level are for that purpose, and also so that player doesn't get hindered.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am probably forgetting something that will be pointed out later on.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Originally posted by ShadowAlexandre
Well, i like it. It's really a good level.
I confess, I don't like sky pop sections too much, but this one was very fun.


Thanks! I personally can't seem to find the fun I used to have playing the level, but that's because I have to go through stuff over and over each time I add something significant.

Also, THOSE SLOPES.

Originally posted by ShadowAlexandre

My english may not be perfect, but I guess "Go Mario"" would be better than "Mario Go!"


Agreed. Noted.

Originally posted by ShadowAlexandre

This room... I don't know... Maybe is just me, but perhaps you could make something more interesting here.


I'm...pretty good with that room. It's a different take on what directional coins are used for in most hacks these days, and a throwback at that one Ghost House level in SMW.

Plus none of the two block can be retaken :P

Originally posted by ShadowAlexandre


I guess you already noticed that, but, yeah, the donut platforms disappears when Mario stands on it.


Nope, didn't notice that. As I've said in this post, i did not test the room. Noted; I need to change SP4.

Originally posted by Woody

Bad palette on the message box. Also, please add the message into it.


Noted the discoloration; already new about that Message.</div></div>

Originally posted by Woody
Also, in some bonus room, if you hit the green box with a coin above, the game crashes.

Other than that, Your level is going great.


It's a bugs in the rom itself. I'm guessing something's wrong with the coin block fix patch in the fixall.
I finished up playing through this level and I think you have a lot of good elements as individual components. Though I'm not sure if they 100% go together and fit in a nice, neat little package. I'm running down the list of enemies/sprites you have and it's a lot at this point:

- Sparabuzzies
- Torpedo Teds + Launchers
- Parabeetles
- Roto-Disks
- Koopas
- Piranha Plants
- Jumping Piranha Plants
- Twirling Platforms
- P-Trick Switches
- Clock Magician
- Goombas

Also, I think your level is running close to being too long. Remember keep the level to about 3-5 minutes in length. I think the strongest section of the level is 117.

As far as 117:

- I'd change Mario Go! to Go Mario!, seems to make more sense that way.
- The 1st SMWC coin seems like a chore to get as there's so many blocks to breakthrough before I can reach it.

As far as C9:

- Screen 1: Don't put a Venus Plant in the same pipe with Mario coming out.
- Screen 6: Same problem as Screen 1. I'm not sure you need to have "M" blocks.
- Screen 8: Piranha Plant looks funny coming out of the Donut Lifts.
- Screen D: Same problem as Screen 8.

As far as CA:
- Screen 2: I found the Power-Up pointless to get seeing how exiting this room puts all of the power-ups back in the original room. Not only that, I really don't want to risk getting a Mushroom or Cape when it's especially close to that P-Switch Trick enemy.
- Screen A: This Star is kind of pointless as you can't really access it without Cape Mario and you can't accumulate 1-Ups in this room with that.

As far as CB:
- Screen 1: Using a see-saw flying upwards is not really that great of a technique here.
- Screen 3: Mario can go through the platform here. (see Screenshot)



As far as CC:
- Donuts are not graphically correct when stepped on.
- Where's the Goal Roulette?
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