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| KONY 2012 |
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Forum Index - Serious Business - Hot off the Press - KONY 2012 |
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| Posted on 2012-03-08 07:54:05 AM |
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I support this campaign so much. I would NOT want to know how it feels to be the children. It must be... even worse than hell. Joseph Kony is going DOWN.
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| Posted on 2012-03-08 01:35:41 PM |
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I saw the video yesterday, I didn't know him before that. The guy in the video is true, 99% of the planet don't know him...and also the 25 other guys the government know about but don't act because they don't want to or something like that (I don't remember the video exactly, I saw that before going to sleep). I just understood that you have to show your support by giving money (once again). I don't want to sound like a jerk, but if humankind was actually caring of others, a lot of things would go better...I could just print of lot of those posters and put them in one night but...I don't know. Why espacially Kony by the way? Why not the others? Because he is the worst, that's why I understand, and you have to start by something, also the author here is a reporter so he is already deeply concerned by that but...does a thing really need to have such gravity for people to care about? That's what I don't get. Everybody can already help, they just don't want to or ignore it, and now there is this media, this video, this facebook, I don't know if this will really change, the guy has great hope though, I wish it'll change too...oh well, I wish him luck, I don't know if my whole country will cover all the walls with those posters...but hey, I'll print some and hang them if I can. Also, if we can stop Kony like that, can't we stop other stuff like deforestation and incoming wars?
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| Posted on 2012-03-08 01:48:45 PM |
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Things like this lead me to hardly read the news nowadays. It only depresses me. I prefer to keep around positive aspects and hang around such people. (I am, however, not blind to them happening.) Still though, the cause is good and hopefully more scum like this end up getting what they deserve. Whether that means being dropped into a volcano or other terrible means. Although sadly a lot of people don't get noticed until too late and others may not like what I think they deserve.
The video is right, I haven't heard about this anywhere. Of course, I don't read much news so it is only natural.
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| Posted on 2012-03-08 05:06:00 PM |
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...this is why America can't have the nice things.
As Blumeiere noted before, not only is it none of our business, but it's another example of this sensational charity gambits we Americans feel obliged to every year or so. Overall, this is a distraction from any sort of problem at hand. Thing twice this terrible occur twice this often in other areas of Africa especially. Instead of throwing money at a poorly-documented charity that threw together a video, we should be actually evaluating the situation and at hand.
Instead, Invisible gets 2 million and we all end up doing nothing except confirm anti-imperialist sentiments in developing countries.
It's not our fight. It's not important. And here we are.
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| Posted on 2012-03-08 05:57:26 PM |
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...a person's life is not important compared to money, money, and, well, money?
One of the lyrics of a famous John Lennon songs cites "Imagine there's no countries"; just a big huge piece of land with people scattered around.
It's really saddening how people think their own country is what only matters, and that the others are just there to die.
This whole Occupation Movement throughout the US is just like a smaller-scale of what happens in many "blessed" countries: their riches are for them and for them only, and the ones who are poor and unfortunate; those who didn't choose to live where they are or grow up where they are, should be left poor and unfortunate.
It is been said that the poor of America are the richest poor in the world; not saying that poverty here isn't awful, but there are thing more awful.
Yes; it is not are fight as brethren of the people of other countries; the life of an innocent child is not important at all.
Jobs that can be made later are more important; Movies, parties, and football stadiums are more important; everything else is more important; life, dignity, and happiness are not.
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| Posted on 2012-03-08 09:05:59 PM |
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Come on, Maxx, the man is using children to fight his war. If we stayed out of it, nothing would get any better. Sure, Invisible Children may not be the best source, but something must be done to stop this maniac.
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| Posted on 2012-03-08 10:47:49 PM |
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I'm typically a non-interventionist when it comes to foreign conflicts, but there are certain times when other countries need to get involved in the affairs of a country even if they have no personal stakes in the conflict.
The LRA situation is one of those instances, for me, much like Hitler was in World War II. Anytime inarguably inhuman butchers start gathering forces and amassing power, they need to be put down like rabid dogs. They are a danger to their own peoples and to other nations -- no good comes of allowing them to gain more strength. If a man like Kony can run around Central Africa unchecked for 20 years, there is obviously not enough strength within that area of the world to stop him. They need help.
I would prefer for a more neutral, multinational organization like the UN handle things like this, though -- that way, an agreement to act can be reached by many nations. When the U.S. acts alone (see Iraq, 2003-present) there is too much room for corruption.
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| Last edited on 2012-03-08 10:49:33 PM by andy_k_250. |
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| Posted on 2012-03-09 03:14:04 AM |
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Note this post in entirely opinionated. Of course, everything debated is always opinionated, but sometimes you just have to reiterate that fact so people don't take your words too literally. Anyway...
Originally posted by The Secret ExitCome on, Maxx, the man is using children to fight his war. If we stayed out of it, nothing would get any better. Sure, Invisible Children may not be the best source, but something must be done to stop this maniac.
The United States isn't the supreme country on this Earth. No matter how elitist US politicians think they are and how much pride you have for being a "central" country whose reach extends beyond the borders of your own, it is not your right to simply decide that a country needs your help and interference. What the LRA was doing to children is, yes, morally heinous and should be stopped, but not like this. Even I'm not sure how this should've been approached, but there was bound to be some other political method that the UN could've used.
I understand why you feel like it's your job to prevent something like this in another country, but ... it's not. I can't put it any simpler than that. When the army the LRA is recruiting actually becomes a direct threat to another country, then we should consider stepping in.
There are many places around the world where crime is as worse as this, but the only reason the US got involved was, as I said, because of the people. Invisible Children simply mashed it into their heads with a propaganda video and suddenly everyone wants to be a social activist.
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| Posted on 2012-03-09 10:53:53 AM |
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It's interesting to note that a lot of the people for US intervention in this case were also against the war in Iraq. Saddam Hussein killed hundreds of thousands of civilians (including more than a hundred thousand children) and we should leave him alone, Joseph Kony kidnaps/kills 30,000 children and someone makes a film about him and all of a sudden these same people think the US has to get involved. It's silly is what it is.
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| Posted on 2012-03-09 02:34:11 PM |
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As Maxx and Blumiere stated, I think we shouldn't get involved. The video did say that if we did nothing about it, it would soon become our problem anyway, but honestly, that would be a VERY long time. Joseph Kony is probably, in his 50's or something? It took him long enough to gather up so many kids in one territory. He'd probably quit before he even got the chance to come to the U.S.
It is a very sad issue and tempting to get involved in, but it's all not really worth the hassle.
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| Posted on 2012-03-09 03:21:08 PM |
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I found this earlier--might be of worth.
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| Posted on 2012-03-09 04:36:13 PM |
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I think that we should definitely get involved regardless of the little details. Whining about corporate gains or tiny inaccuracies is just dodging the big picture. No matter what you say about the video or Invisible Children does not change the fact that the situation over there is wrong and that no one has really done very much to correct it. You can say that it's none of our business, but in this digital age where we are all connected, surely doing nothing will do more harm than intervening - even if in doing so we fail.
If the house next door to yours was on fire, you'd have a few options: Help, scream, or do nothing. Do nothing and the fire may spread. Scream and you may get some attention, a sore throat, or irritated neighbours. Help and the only loss will be a physical one if harm may come your way, but in the end it is in just simply being there that you become a help.
Personally, I can't stand when people refuse to do anything because it simply doesn't involve themselves. Yes, intervening can cause problems, but doing nothing will resolve nothing. Likewise, debating over inaccuracies can easily just be a way to look like you're interested when actually you're forcing away responsibility.
Thanks to the internet, the world is no longer divided by metaphorical borders - instead we are finally one connected voice. And doing nothing will simply put a border back around yourself once more.
...if this made no sense it's probably because it's late and my eyes are searing.
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| Posted on 2012-03-09 06:43:00 PM |
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Here is the thing, no matter what country I am from, I would want to stop this anyway I could. US citizens want the US to get involved because it's the only way they know they can help. Other countries aren't going to listen to US citizens. Also, we don't all think we are some massive super power with perfect laws and rights. Note this: I am from the United States, and our country is very far from perfect. Please, remember that we are not all so ignorant and elitist. It's honestly quite insulting.
With that out of the way, I think it is worth the trouble to get any country we can involved. Maybe it's not our problem, but how can we just sit by knowing that they are going through this and do nothing? We should just let men like Kony do this just for power? Our world has a bleak future if we can't even take him down in the digital age.
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| Posted on 2012-03-09 07:00:44 PM |
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Originally posted by Sniggerb0bbleIf the house next door to yours was on fire...
If the house next door to me was on fire I would call the fire bregade and let them deal with it how they want. I wouldn't recruit the entire neighbourhood to storm into the burning house to save the people inside while risking their lives and potentially allowing said fire to spread to their houses.
You guys have a strange meaning of "help". If Uganda wanted help they would've asked the US ages ago. If Africa wanted to stop what was happening in Uganda then they would've asked the US ages ago. If the US wanted to help Uganda they would've done so ages ago. There's a reason they didn't, and I outlined that in my previous posts, but they had to choice because of the immense pressure put on them because of the people. Do you think they really wanted to get involved in this Joseph Kony business? The only reason they did is because if they just ignored the public then the current party in power wouldn't be so popular. It's all politics that benefit the US, I doubt they even care much about Uganda's situation.
QuotePlease, remember that we are not all so ignorant and elitist. It's honestly quite insulting.
And yet here you are justifying your country's interference with another's under moral pretence. Notice how it's really on the US that does this? I never said anything about you guys being ignorant though, since you clearly aren't. Not sure where you pulled that from.
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| Posted on 2012-03-09 08:52:05 PM |
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Well this thread has inspired some cognitive dissonance, so maybe I can work it out while writing this.
On one hand, I don't like messing where people don't want you messing. I'm certain someone who lives there has petitioned the US for intervention, but I'm also certain someone who lives there would see it as more of the US posturing itself. Whether the overall response would be positive or negative if we came in and killed this dude, I dunno.
On the other hand, intervention is sometimes necessary regardless of if the other party wants it. We have a responsibility to our fellow human beings, you know, and sometimes they're not always acting in their best interest.
But who are we to decide what their best interest is? Is it not their right to decide that?
Just rambling, I suppose. The thought keeps popping into my mind that this is sort of like a cliche shonen anime where a dude is facing down a powerful opponent and insists to fight alone, for pride or whatever. Hopefully it ends like a cliche shonen anime and the dude wins.
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| Posted on 2012-03-09 09:31:57 PM |
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I dislike the idea that just because its not our country, it's not our business. That "Outta sight, outta mind" sort of thinking is sure to get our species nowhere. We are all human beings, all born equal, despite who your parents were, where you were born, it doesn't change the fact that you are in fact a human being, and that there are other human beings suffering in another part of the world. We're all family, no matter how distant our ancestral connections may be, we are all one big family that's been feuding and making stupid mistakes since the dawn of history. Just because they live far away doesn't mean you shouldn't help. You have to imagine what the other side must feel. Whenever I got the shit kicked out of me in Middle School, the only thing I wanted was for someone to be there, someone to just make it stop. If I see a fight break out, doesn't matter if I intervene by calling higher authority or literally stepping in to try and break the fight, I cannot simply sit idly knowing what's going on.
Originally posted by BlumiereIf the house next door to me was on fire I would call the fire bregade and let them deal with it how they want.
That means you helped the person in the burning house. In this scenario, if you don't call the fire department they die.
Originally posted by BlumiereI wouldn't recruit the entire neighbourhood to storm into the burning house to save the people inside while risking their lives and potentially allowing said fire to spread to their houses.
I don't know why he chose burning house as a comparison, you can't really rally up people to stand up against a house fire. But I hope you understand what I mean. As human beings, we should not be ignorant of others, and refuse to intervene because they are simply a little too far away. If everyone believed like that, we'd still probably have slavery, and other archaic beliefs, because no one was going to put up the effort to stand against them. If a family member of yours was dying in a hospital in Darwin, or some other Australian city, or even in the world, wouldn't you try your hardest to go and visit them, wherever they may be, to offer them whatever support you could, anything, or even if it'd be just to see them, one last time? If not, I apologize for wasting your time.
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| Last edited on 2012-03-09 09:35:22 PM by Pikerchu13. |
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| Posted on 2012-03-09 11:29:48 PM |
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Originally posted by BlumiereAnd yet here you are justifying your country's interference with another's under moral pretence. Notice how it's really on the US that does this?
Reread my post. I was not justifying my country to do anything. Only justifying the fact that someone needs to step in. Sure, this happens in another country, and sure, maybe that country doesn't want anyone else in there, but if they're not going to do everything in their power to stop it, then what good are they really doing? I say they're just as much to blame as Kony is for the ruined lives of their denizens if they're not going to do everything they can to stop it. If anyone, not just the US, can do something about it then they should.
Originally posted by BlumiereI never said anything about you guys being ignorant though, since you clearly aren't. Not sure where you pulled that from.
Originally posted by BlumiereThe United States isn't the supreme country on this Earth.
You made it sound like the US is ignorant enough to think that. And I'm not just talking to you, but sometimes it seems the whole of the non-US internet we're that ignorant, but this is irrelevant to the topic.
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| Posted on 2012-03-09 11:39:41 PM |
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As the US, we have no right to be doing what we are doing for 2 reasons.
1. We are seen as a imperialist nation by everyone. I mean everyone. Although only the Middle East countries really interpret this as an attack, there is definitely a stigma surrounding US foreign policy. This confirms that. We should be going through the UN if at all. Since this situation has no direct or immediate effect on the US (Hitler CERTAINLY did), taking action as a country alone makes us occupy and overthrow yet another dictator. It's not a popular descision outside the US and we have never gotten it right. (Korea. Afghanistan. Vietnam. Iraq. South America. etc.)
Understand that this idea of staying out of Uganda is not one of selfishness. It's pragmatic politics. The US is terrible at foreign aid. We have problems that need to be addressed first and delaying that costs more lives than in Uganda. Going into Uganda, as least as a country alone, does not improve anyone's situation.
Should we be helping our fellow man? Maybe. It's not our problem and we have our own that are hold much more lives at stake. And even assuming so, name ONE time when America has "helped our fellow man" in the past 40 years and it hasn't turned out horrifically. The UN should be taking action here if at all.
2. Invisible Children is NOT a charity. They hold one of the worst financial accountability scores out of the some thousands of charities scored. That video is a disgusting display of guilt mongering regardless of the reality. Throwing our money at that group is a bad idea anyway because they cannot rally political change, which is the real issue here.
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| Last edited on 2012-03-09 11:41:40 PM by Maxx. |
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| Posted on 2012-03-10 05:11:26 AM |
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Let me be realistic, and very heartless...
lot's of people act as if they care, act as if they feel for those children, but they're simply LYING.
They Don't know them, I don't know them, I don't know to care. I lost my soul to the internet.
But Lots of People Don't Care, They Find it BAD, yes, but they can't make the will to do something they don't have influence on.
sorry. I do feel bad for those, but that's all.
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| Posted on 2012-03-10 08:50:22 AM |
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Originally posted by Pikerchu13That means you helped the person in the burning house. In this scenario, if you don't call the fire department they die.
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If a family member of yours was dying in a hospital in Darwin, or some other Australian city, or even in the world, wouldn't you try your hardest to go and visit them, wherever they may be, to offer them whatever support you could, anything, or even if it'd be just to see them, one last time? If not, I apologize for wasting your time.
Firstly, you misunderstood my reply to his post. The fire department is the government and my neighbourhood is the country. The house on fire is the country in need. I did help the person in the burning house, but I didn't call up everyone in the street to intervene and potentially make things worse and risk their lives. See where I'm getting at?
Secondly, you cannot make a comparison with people from your family and people from a different country. Of course I would want to go to Darwin to see a family member if they were dying and do everything I could to help them, but that's because they're family. I have an emotional connection with them. If someone not related to me was killed I wouldn't really care emotionally; I'd just look at it and realise that it's wrong, is shameful but then forget about it a few minutes later.
QuoteSure, this happens in another country, and sure, maybe that country doesn't want anyone else in there, but if they're not going to do everything in their power to stop it, then what good are they really doing?
Again you're showing me how elitist people from the United States are. You acknowledge the fact that their problems have nothing to do with you and that they didn't even want you there but still insist that it's perfectly fine to just send some soldiers over to "fix" their problems.
QuoteIf anyone, not just the US, can do something about it then they should.
No one ever does do anything, though. Australia, for example, is not like that. Uganda isn't our country nor is it directly related to us or the Crown, so why should we even care?
QuoteYou made it sound like the US is ignorant enough to think that.
My apologies for being blunt, but a lot of misinformed US citizens are ignorant enough to think that. We do see you, as Maxx said, as an imperialist nation who flaunts their military as a political asset, and believe me when I say it's something a lot of Australians hate you for. Sending a bunch of men in uniform holding guns to fix a country or nation doesn't solve anything, it only escalates the conflict until it reaches such a gruesome point that it falls on itself.
Just think Afghanistan. News reporters, bloggers and Youtubers are already making claims that the US is only getting involved for a return in resources. People outside the US aren't associating your interference with good intentions, they're automatically assuming you're doing it for all the wrong reasons.
It isn't our fault for thinking like that, it's yours.
Again, sorry for being blunt about it, but I find that it's better to get a point across without sugar coating a post to avoid offence. I'm observing a US as a whole and acknowledge that not everyone living within their borders have the mindset I described above.
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