| [Complete] 103 - Opulent Oasis - cstutor89, Teyla, Riolu180, SyStemkraSh, dinomar |
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Forum Index - Events - SMW Central Production 2 - World 4 - [Complete] 103 - Opulent Oasis - cstutor89, Teyla, Riolu180, SyStemkraSh, dinomar |
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| Posted on 2012-04-08 07:43:52 AM |
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Originally posted by MrDeePayThat is the player's own personal problem, not ours.
We had this same discussion a bunch of times already, and every time we came to the consensus that it should be fixed regardless, especially if the cause is a glitch and not extreme stupidity on the player's side, like in this example.
It really wouldn't be hard to fix this case at all either, just put a little gap above the top used block, so the player can collect it again if it decides to go haywire again.
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| Posted on 2012-04-08 11:00:00 AM |
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I really like the HDMA used in this level. For some reason, it reminds me of the sunset effect in Breath of Fire II, what's a good thing to me.
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| Posted on 2012-04-11 10:26:36 AM |
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So uh...
How's the layer 3 been coming along? I'm getting an itch to work on the cursed part of the level.
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| Posted on 2012-04-11 11:22:21 AM |
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Originally posted by TeylaSo uh...
How's the layer 3 been coming along? I'm getting an itch to work on the cursed part of the level.
Me too. What's taking so long is, no one's really discussing in here what we're doing. It's all being done on IRC (>_>) and even then, we're not coming to a consensus whatsoever. Few ideas are being put forth, and no one's saying which ideas they'd want to go for over others. In other words, once again, nothing is being decided because NO ONE IS TALKING. Can we please get some discussion going? 
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| Last edited on 2012-04-11 11:26:57 AM by Riolu180. |
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| Posted on 2012-04-12 04:24:57 PM |
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Or that's cool too. yep. Let's just not communicate at all. That's good teamwork.
¬_¬
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| Posted on 2012-04-13 10:15:59 AM |
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I can give you an update on L3 water and the truth is it's slowdown central. In comparing what happens with L2 and L3 water, there's virtually very little slowdown on L2 and there's massive/noticeable slowdown even with the QuickRom patch applied on Layer 3 - same settings and same enemies, etc. CPUMeter just goes haywire with L3 water and with a level like this sprite lowering doesn't make much sense.
I'm going to stress it one more time as I've always said before, don't use L3 water. It's harder to deal with it in terms of interaction and it lessens the amount of sprites that can be put on the screen and with a level designed like this, interactive L3 is just too much. Instead it should be interactive L2 with a static L3 being the BG. And I don't know how much more proof I have to give to prove the point ... the whole argument about making a BG on L2 is not a good enough reason for it to not be on L3 especially when L3 can have multiple color palettes, though every tile can only have 4 colors, through Racing Stripe and Terra Stripe. TMI said he had it figured out but I've yet to see code that makes me believe that is true.
Which leads me to why I haven't said anything lately. There has been a lack of listening to any of the ideas or questions I've been saying or asking. Some people didn't like what I designed, the conflict between using L2/L3 water even though I just finished working with GN on his level's L3 madness, nobody has answered most of the questions I asked a page or two ago, and the curse idea is in limbo right now.
Frankly I don't like that +/- thing that was talked about briefly on Saturday with the adding 9's and #'s because if the number is too large we'll be here punching 9's till our face goes blue and if the number is too small it can be easily brute forced. Why does it require massive amounts of ASM and what's the problem with reusing something that works well already? More importantly why does it have to be that complicated? Why can't we just do this?:
(1) Randomly choose a number of XXX.
(2) Have it appear in AA and put a picture of the level that it needs to go in.
(3) Use Vic Rattlehead's stuff of punching in numbers and recode one block, the "=" sign.
(4) Punch in the number of XXX, i.e. 135 means punch 1 then 3 then 5 and then "=".
(5) The "=" will teleport if right, hurt Mario if wrong.
I was trying to get at that on Saturday but then it was brought up that why should we reuse something? Well why NOT reuse something? This level has nothing to do with Vic Rattlehead's level as it has its own concept and the ASM was coded well to begin with? It's easier for the coders because there's really only one block to code for this level and it's easier for the players because they don't have to punch in long droughts of 9's if the numbers are big. If it looks too similar, ReGFXing them is not a problem and is a lot less work than trying to code something(s).
So the truth of the matter is, I know I'm going to get flack for this but at this point I just don't care, I'm very frustrated with this level and the way it's going - not design wise but efficiency wise. It shouldn't be taking this long to get a level done with 6 people working on it. Someone else will have to come up to me and tell me their ideas before I say anything else about this level because I'm sick and tired of getting complained at for making decisions without a consensus even though I've probably mentioned that L2 water at least a half a dozen times. And I think someone should take the lead provided they know exactly what they want to do with the level mapped out to the "T". If there isn't a clear path that everyone can understand, I don't think that person should be the leader. And as a matter of fact I'd been on all this week on IRC and I've heard barely a smidge of mentioning of 103 at all so that whole argument is not really true. As far as that update that I got flack for, I did it because people asked for one to test and it was imo worthy of testing.
That's pretty much it, no more updates from me until I get a viable and clear idea of what is going to be done for the path. Frankly many people have been given a lot of time to think about this and the cursed idea is not defined enough - what kind of curse? how will it affect Mario? how is it triggered? what kind of layout will this path have? what kind of enemies? All of these questions are not answered. I have the answers in my head, and kind of have explained them before, how I would do it but I want to hear from others before I say anything.
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| Posted on 2012-04-13 11:02:26 AM |
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Well see, if you were posting in this thread, I'd be able to respond!
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Shame to hear about the layer 3. That's going to make Dinomar's work a bit harder, but okay.
As for the path, again, why not just make a pipe appear after asteroid antics? That seems like the simplest solution. Then, as far as the cursed area goes, there was that idea Lightvayne had that is really awesome, and I suggest going with.
The level is like one of those looping castles from SMB, except with a DINGING or a buzz when you get it right or wrong.
Nimono suggested moving platforms and I suggested a purple palette to make it seem more cursed. It seems relatively easy and would be fun to experiment with.
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| Posted on 2012-04-13 04:45:14 PM |
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Actually it shouldn't make Dinomar's work harder. He should just use a group of 4 colors in the last 8 colors section of every palette in his tiles for his (setting of 2BPP GB) GFX file, I can draw up the tiles in Terra Stripe/Racing Stripe as long as he gives me a picture of how the tiles work. I really did try hard to make it work but something is going on with L3 that makes it work more than it should even with QuickRom.
I'm okay with the pipe appearing or being there already but not accessible after AA but where should it be put? How does it appear with completion of AA - with a level exit check? How are people going to know to come back to this Oasis level?
Personally I think the pipe should be more towards the beginning-middle because it'll be easier to get to after you've completed both exits of the level. I like accessibility (a little bit more than appearing but both are okay) after beating AA and as for how to get to it, just carve a picture of the layout of 103 in that particular area to show this is where they need to go and they need to remember which level it was that looked like that.
Looping Castle idea is fine but I don't see how that relates to a cursed idea. We don't have to go with the cursed idea if we're going with looping castle it can stand out on its own, just make it a dark HDMA path.
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| Last edited on 2012-04-13 04:45:57 PM by cstutor89. |
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| Posted on 2012-04-13 05:41:56 PM |
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About me, i realize i dropped the face off the earth (or how they say): i should tell you my situation:
It happened in Easter, (so happy easter a dick) when i was using my laptop as usual, my 2 years old newphew threw one plast toy on my monitor and... ghhghh digital glass giant crack gghghgh!!!!
What a good easter!
Well, with this i just want to comunicate that until i don't get my laptop repaired (it may require another week), i cannot do things for you, so, the layer 3 BG, in this case. I'm sorry, really.
I won't bring my laptop where there are children anymore... you cannot even describe my anger.
So i even may be off for a period of time. So see ya guys.
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| Posted on 2012-04-13 05:45:34 PM |
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Okay, did you have some things in mind on what you wanted to do with Layer 3 BG? Maybe I could put in a temporary right now or actually we don't really need a L3 BG like right now at this moment so it can wait a bit. Just read the very first part of my last post with the 2 BPP GB setting that needs to be used in YY-CHR.
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| Posted on 2012-04-13 05:47:34 PM |
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It seems like waiting to do the background might be the best choice at this point. After all, there is still a lot that needs to get done before SMWCP2 will be done, so there shouldn't be too much of a rush to finish the technical stuff.
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| Last edited on 2012-04-13 05:49:15 PM by eXcavator. |
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| Posted on 2012-04-14 04:51:02 AM |
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Originally posted by cstutor89Okay, did you have some things in mind on what you wanted to do with Layer 3 BG? Maybe I could put in a temporary right now or actually we don't really need a L3 BG like right now at this moment so it can wait a bit. Just read the very first part of my last post with the 2 BPP GB setting that needs to be used in YY-CHR.
mmmh, ok,
I thought to a divided BG: lower and upper part: the upper part is a sand land with some far bushes and palmtrees in there, while the lower part is the underwater enviroment. but it must not be an ocean.
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| Posted on 2012-04-14 05:28:21 AM |
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That sounds like a good idea. Can you define the underwater environment a little bit more? - for instance rocks wedged in between sand?
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| Posted on 2012-04-14 07:37:51 AM |
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Why don't you just use L3 for the water image and put water tiles on L1?
Also if I may just put this here, that pipe idea sounds horribly boring, I'd rather go with something someone proposed before in this thread, a puzzle that can only be solved if you have the hint you get at the end of AA.
Also hide said puzzle.
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| Posted on 2012-04-14 11:48:43 AM |
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Problem is, puzzles can be bruteforced. No matter what. If they aren't, then they probably take too long.
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| Posted on 2012-04-14 04:26:36 PM |
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Originally posted by cstutor89That sounds like a good idea. Can you define the underwater environment a little bit more? - for instance rocks wedged in between sand?
I don't really know how an oasis is made underwater... i would go to do a research... if i hade money for a trip *shot*
So i propose to not care: i think some algae would be ok. If we even want to get more absurd, we could even include some corals. But for now, just set a placeholder until i won't get to work about this... damn poor pc ];
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| Posted on 2012-04-14 04:36:01 PM |
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I was able to figure out something with Layer 3 just a few moments ago. The downside to that is that L1 has all of the FG elements, L2 has the tiles that are to interact as water tiles and L3 are tiles that display the BG for the water tiles. So I guess we won't be needing tiles underwater unless they are a part of the FG (L1).
EDIT: When I think about it, I don't see how this is very much different from L2 being the water layer. The only difference is L3 can't be used as a the BG.
When building the BG above water make sure they are not BG tiles on Pages 40+ for Map16 because they have to be set on Layer 2.
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| Last edited on 2012-04-14 04:40:07 PM by cstutor89. |
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| Posted on 2012-04-16 04:13:50 PM |
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As far as L2 water is concerned that's pretty much what we're sticking too. The slowdown is just too much and it's way easier to do L2 water than it is to do L3 water as I've always said so. If Dinomar wants to put above the water graphics in the level on L2 you can do so. L3 could be used for under the water, as texture for the water, or none of those.
At this point in time, a month since the start of the level, everyone should have some idea for what they want to do with the level if they were designing it themselves. I've asked many times that same question and have gotten very little information at all. So I have to push the button to get the ball rolling, I am giving 24 hours from now to come up with an idea for the entrance to W9's path and/or W9's path and present it.
Teyla has been the only one so far where I have a clear idea of what is to be done: a pipe that appears after AA is beaten and a horizontal dark-cursed look to a SMB1 looping stage like 4-4 and 7-4. That's Teyla's idea.
As for my idea it's: get a riddle from AA to hit 4 parts of a certain island on W9 OR touch 4 specific berries in 103 and look up under a palm tree on that island Screen 9-A. I'd like to go more along the lines of a disoriented-cursed route in a vertical cloud area as a climb to W9 (depends though where W9 is going to be setting wise).
That's 2 ways for entering and what is W9's path. Anyone can choose either of the ideas wholly or choose one part for the path and one for the entrance, I don't care. But if you don't like the idea come out and suggest one, no more I come and ask the questions to get the answer because that doesn't work. A dislike with no alternative idea is not good enough at this point. I'd like to get started now as well as everyone else and if no ideas are presented we're going to go with Teyla's idea.
EDIT: If we need to improve on either of these 2 ideas then doing so is fine.
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| Last edited on 2012-04-16 04:20:13 PM by cstutor89. |
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| Posted on 2012-04-16 04:49:59 PM |
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Originally posted by cstutor89I'd like to get started now as well as everyone else and if no ideas are presented we're going to go with Teyla's idea.
And what about my idea, hmm? I keep telling everyone about it.
EDIT: if you need me to restate my idea, let me know; but please, don't dismiss it simply because I haven't stated every last tiny detail; it's like that for a reason: so we can discuss it. We're a team. I don't think just one person should have to decide all the details of an idea!
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| Last edited on 2012-04-16 05:09:19 PM by Riolu180. |
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| Posted on 2012-04-16 05:10:29 PM |
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Just say it, I'll add it to the list of choices.
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Forum Index - Events - SMW Central Production 2 - World 4 - [Complete] 103 - Opulent Oasis - cstutor89, Teyla, Riolu180, SyStemkraSh, dinomar |
