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| Level Design, Constant dashing and jumping |
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Forum Index - SMW Hacking - SMW Hack Discussion - Level Design, Constant dashing and jumping |
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| Posted on 2012-03-20 08:16:49 PM |
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Testing my first level, I constantly find myself running and jumping, only to land on the side of a koopa. How should I change my level design to encourage strategic movement instead of a run-and-jump strategy? I put quite a bit of effort to making the level look good, but nobody's gonna care if they're just dashing through it.
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| Last edited on 2012-03-20 08:31:44 PM by jimbo1qaz. |
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| Posted on 2012-03-20 09:32:31 PM |
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Well, make sure that the whole level is not just a "go right" strategy. Making the player change directions or stop for a moment will prevent the whole running and jumping thing, which is what Yoshi's Island 2 from SMW suffered from, as well as Yoshi's Island 4. Yoshi's Island 1 is a good example of something that makes sure the player can't just run and jump (unless it is a TAS).
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| Posted on 2012-03-20 09:33:18 PM |
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Need to think up obstacles the player hasn't really seen before, then they have to stop and think. Creativity is what makes good level design.
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| Posted on 2012-03-20 09:58:11 PM |
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How do I stop a level from being a boring jump-and-run one? Maybe pipes would help... But do they belong on a beach?
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| Posted on 2012-03-20 10:32:29 PM |
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Pipes of varying heights would definitely work to break up the monotony in a level. They pretty much fit anywhere.
Also for your specific problem, I would recommend reading this section of AxemJinx's level design tutorial.
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| Last edited on 2012-03-20 10:33:00 PM by TRS. |
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| Posted on 2012-03-20 11:00:55 PM |
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If a level has too much Salad (Srint(ing) And Leap(ing) All Day), then that's probably a good sign that there's not enough variation in the way the level flows. The only reason that a player would hold right to win is because they either do not want to put in all of their skill, or the level encourages holding right. The best advice that I can offer is not to amend the level to make it impossible to Salad (unless if it's a later level that requires a higher degree of skill from the player), but to make the level appear like holding right won't let the player explore the entirety of a level.
Imagine for one moment a screen that contains a ground plane, a platform above it containing ? Blocks, and a pipe that is out of the sight of the player (until it scrolls up). If a player Salads, then they can potentially blunder right past this small trove of items and powerups. However, they will likely stop what they are doing to leap up and take the powerups. Players will then have a habit of jumping atop this formation of blocks to check for invisible blocks, and will likely see the pipe. Since it's off screen for anyone who would just run by, it's a good place to have a pipe to lead to some other area of the game. For bonus points, you can have this pipe only able to be entered if they backtrack a little (but just a little). This way, you not only diversify your level design by adding the component of curiosity from the player, but you also don't punish a player for skipping it. You can force the player to not run and jump all the time, but nobody likes to be forced to not do something; it's better to discourage Salad by making other routes look more appealing than to force players to not do so.
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| Last edited on 2012-03-21 10:14:36 AM by Deeke. |
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| Posted on 2012-03-21 09:04:25 AM |
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Put obstacles and enemies to make the player think a bit before moving. Also try to use various platforms or warps to make the level more fun to explore. You can also think about a gimmick or puzzle. It's your choice.
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| Posted on 2012-03-21 09:10:58 AM |
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The best place to put a SALAD level is as the first level, or if you are introducing a new gimmick. Speaking of which, I would like to bring up the gimmick used in Sinster Dungeon. I liked how the controls flickered back and forth, but Sinister Dungeon was not a good place to introduce the gimmick. If you want to introduce the player to a complicated gimmick, use a flat level with not many pits, and easy to avoid enemies. What bugged me in Sinister Dungeon is that the gimmick was introduced in a level where there were already lava pits and spikes to avoid. Now if the gimmick was introduced in a level that was similiar to Yoshi's Island 2 (a flat and simple level, perfect for getting the player used to a gimmick that might kill him if he is not careful).
So there is all that to consider. Also, I like AxemJinx's article. It shows level design from a whole new side.
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| Last edited on 2012-03-21 09:11:37 AM by mathelete. |
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| Posted on 2012-03-21 06:50:07 PM |
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Originally posted by TRSAlso for your specific problem, I would recommend reading this section of AxemJinx's level design tutorial.
I did read that tutorial and "tried" to use it, but I keep running right, running right, and jumping up, up, up, up and I don't even see my yoshi coin "bait". And yes, this is my first level. It looks like a sprint-and-leap, but even then, I keep hitting enemies on a ledge. Well, looks like a shelless-snapping-turtle-and-dangerous-crab SALAD. I put in more and more enemies to make it harder, but it doesn't look hard, just a bunch of enemies.
Wormer, I already have lots of enemies and a quicksand pit later. But I just jump over it...
Deeke, that might be helpful.
TRS, maybe.
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| Posted on 2012-03-22 06:28:19 AM |
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Originally posted by jimbo1qazOriginally posted by TRSsome thing I linked and stuff
I did read that tutorial and "tried" to use it, but I keep running right, running right, and jumping up, up, up, up and I don't even see my yoshi coin "bait".
You should also consider the fact that you're the creator of the level and have been testing it. You very likely play it differently than other players would, simply because you already know the layout of the level and how to best traverse it; where you would rush through a section of enemies, some other player might slow down to grab a few coins. You have to accommodate for other playstyles.
If you want players to slow down and not rush through the level, it's as easy as placing collectibles in places not directly on the path. Placing a few coins above a row of turn/question blocks will encourage players to jump on top of the blocks to collect them, and you could also use this to better hide secrets. And by "hide", I don't mean make them harder to find. I mean that there should be maybe some indication that the secret is there; if you placed a yoshi coin so that you can only see and collect it if you're on top of those blocks, placing coins above the blocks (where players on the ground can see them) gives players a reason to be on top of the blocks.
With the yoshi coin in your case, place a small coin trail (at least part of it visible on-screen) leading up to it. The player should know the coins are leading to something, but won't know exactly what it is, and might investigate it.
Also vary up the terrain a bit. Trust me on this: players are much more likely to slow down and not speed through the level if you change up the ground height and intersperse pipes. The pipes are also good places to hide secrets, and if you use them to access the occasional secret room, your players will be more likely to check each pipe.
Originally posted by matheletestuff about Sinister Dungeon and its gimmick
The problem with that gimmick is that suddenly changing the controls, even at clearly defined intervals, just doesn't fit precision platforming at all.
Also, you're talking about introducing a gimmick that's used in the entire hack. Giving a "practice" level wouldn't quite work out when the gimmick in question is used in only one other level in the the entire hack.
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| Posted on 2012-03-22 07:12:00 AM |
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Originally posted by TRSOriginally posted by jimbo1qazOriginally posted by TRSsome thing I linked and stuff
I did read that tutorial and "tried" to use it, but I keep running right, running right, and jumping up, up, up, up and I don't even see my yoshi coin "bait".
You should also consider the fact that you're the creator of the level and have been testing it. You very likely play it differently than other players would, simply because you already know the layout of the level and how to best traverse it; where you would rush through a section of enemies, some other player might slow down to grab a few coins. You have to accommodate for other playstyles.
If you want players to slow down and not rush through the level, it's as easy as placing collectibles in places not directly on the path. Placing a few coins above a row of turn/question blocks will encourage players to jump on top of the blocks to collect them, and you could also use this to better hide secrets. And by "hide", I don't mean make them harder to find. I mean that there should be maybe some indication that the secret is there; if you placed a yoshi coin so that you can only see and collect it if you're on top of those blocks, placing coins above the blocks (where players on the ground can see them) gives players a reason to be on top of the blocks.
With the yoshi coin in your case, place a small coin trail (at least part of it visible on-screen) leading up to it. The player should know the coins are leading to something, but won't know exactly what it is, and might investigate it.
Also vary up the terrain a bit. Trust me on this: players are much more likely to slow down and not speed through the level if you change up the ground height and intersperse pipes. The pipes are also good places to hide secrets, and if you use them to access the occasional secret room, your players will be more likely to check each pipe.
Originally posted by matheletestuff about Sinister Dungeon and its gimmick
The problem with that gimmick is that suddenly changing the controls, even at clearly defined intervals, just doesn't fit precision platforming at all.
Also, you're talking about introducing a gimmick that's used in the entire hack. Giving a "practice" level wouldn't quite work out when the gimmick in question is used in only one other level in the the entire hack.
Oh, it is only used in that level? Sorry, it has been more than a year since I last played this, so I did not know that. I thought it was going to appear many more times (maybe I am getting mixed up with another hack)
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Forum Index - SMW Hacking - SMW Hack Discussion - Level Design, Constant dashing and jumping |
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