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| How do you design your hack? |
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Forum Index - SMW Hacking - SMW Hack Discussion - How do you design your hack? |
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| Posted on 2012-03-21 04:33:19 AM |
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Something I'd want to know, since starting a project myself is easy, but plans / design always fall apart... 
Do you plan your hacks?
How much planning do you do and what are the major points of it? Plot, levels, worlds, overworld, bosses?
In which you concentrate the most?
What kind of tip you would give to other people on designing a hack?
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| Posted on 2012-03-21 04:50:23 AM |
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Levels definitely. Overworld is a close second. I sort of plan my hacks with a rough idea, but there is also a fair amount of improvisation. Details might change from what I originally planned in the opening post of the hack thread. I don't think it's very wise to start a hack without at least a few gimmick ideas for levels.
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| Posted on 2012-03-21 05:44:58 AM |
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I do too much planning, not enough making.
Had the outline of my hack in my head under a month after I started. It's been what, 3 years now? Halfway through world 2.
Anywho, best method I've found: Have an idea, make it. Don't put it off. Don't tell yourself you're doing the tedious stuff first and will get to other stuff later. Skip ahead if you need to; make what's swimming around in your head, right now.
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| Posted on 2012-03-21 03:00:15 PM |
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I make levels first. Sometimes I delete either part of the level or the whole level to make up a new gimmick. Later comes the overworld, which is a easier part to do once you don't make cutoff or you're a very good OW maker.
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| Posted on 2012-03-21 03:51:35 PM |
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It's best to have ideas and motivation at the beginning. If you do it, you'll do some nice levels. I often plan about a theme/gimmick then make it. I often do OW's at the end, when I finish the levels.
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| Posted on 2012-03-23 10:12:00 PM |
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I make the levels in order. If I don't, then everything becomes an unorganized mess and it will never get finished. Pretty much the only rule I've made for myself when it comes to making Marios is that I never start working on the next level until the level you're making is finished. No excuses. Working on more than one level at a time always ends bad for me, because I will definately lose inspiration with one of the levels and stop working on it. As for the overworlds, I go with the flow. It doesn't matter what order it gets done in so long as it gets done, although I generally won't start working on the levels of a certain workld until the corresponding overworld is done. When I start working on a world, I have a clear picture in my mind as to what each level's theme will be, and what gimmicks they will use. Of course, I improvise the actual layout of the level most of the time. As for bosses, I just go with whatever I can find in the sprites section.
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| Last edited on 2012-03-23 10:12:32 PM by Zanzio. |
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| Posted on 2012-03-24 01:10:02 PM |
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It doesn't really matter where you start or what you focus on.
As long as you have a few ideas, you implement them.
Personally, I either plan a whole bunch or just make it up as I go along.
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| Posted on 2012-03-25 12:44:16 AM |
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Even though I've never completed a entire hack, I have made several levels.
I find it very difficult to create a level on the spot in Lunar Magic so I end up actually drawing out my levels or the ideas in my level on paper first. Work out all the kinks on paper then recreate it in Lunar Magic.
I also find it very difficult to be creative on the spot as well. When I do get creative no matter where I am (at school, work) I draw out my ideas on paper then place them into a special folder when I get home that I have on my dresser. All my ideas are in this folder so I wont forget them later when I actually do the designing.
I have plans for some really SICK hacks but I still lack the ASM knowledge and experience with Lunar Magic. I've also been very busy with school. But one day I want to start making my ideas come to life. My only problem is that my imagination always far out-exceeds my current hacking abilities.
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| Posted on 2012-03-26 10:37:59 PM |
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It's like a mixed drink. If you put in too much alcohol, it's gonna taste disgusting.
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| Posted on 2012-03-27 10:24:16 PM |
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First off, it really helps, at least for me, if you set a goal for yourself and stay true to your goal while you design your hack. It seems to me that maybe things fall apart because you may not have a clear focus on what your trying to accomplish. For example, your goal could be to create an smb3 style hack or a vanilla hack with a certain difficulty.
For me, level design is the most important element in a hack. Someone can have the most impressive graphics, story, bosses, etc. but if they lack level design (either too boring or too hard), the hack would not be as fun to play. I focus most of my time on level design. I create a landscape for a level, add some elements and then I test/tweak and test/tweak and test/tweak some more. I try to place myself in the shoes of a potential player of my hack and ask myself some questions,
1) What would a player like to see?
2) What would a player expect to see?
3) What would throw the player off to create a stir in the level?
The trick is to come up with different solutions for every single level when answering these questions.
I can ramble on quite a bit with this subject but I hope I gave you something to think about here. Good luck!
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| Posted on 2012-03-28 08:56:50 AM |
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This isn't a help thread, so it doesn't belong in the hacking help forum. Moved to Hack Discussion.
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| Posted on 2012-03-28 11:11:09 AM |
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I am a vanilla hacker at the moment.
I'm still focused on level design for the most part. With my first official level, I deleted everything out of Yoshi's Island 1 except for the entrance to Level 105, the exit to level 1CB, and the way back. When I add the pipe down to the secret room, I work on the secret room.
I don't do custom palletes right now. My latest experiment with one, Origin of Dawn, failed.
With the overworld, I work on that as I create more levels. The Yoshi's Island submap in Dawn of Reckoning is mostly water right now, but there is land where I have three level tiles (Yoshi's House, Trial Grounds, and a tile for World 1-2). After I finish a level, I work on adding the event(s).
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| Posted on 2012-03-28 01:59:00 PM |
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The overworld is the first thing you should plan, because it WILL affect how you end up designing the levels. For example, if unlocking a certain level required a really hard secret exit, that secret level should also be of that difficulty. Once the overworld is done, you can begin doing level design, as that is the highest priority. However, an exception is if some ASM gimmick is a main feature of a certain level design, in which case, you better get that done, or you won't be able to continue working on that level's design. However, you can always prepare sublevels in advance, even though they won't be accessible for a while. In fact, the level that I know will take up the most sublevels and might force me to rethink the other levels due to rom space should be the first level that I design.
Remember, the order in which you work on aspects of your hack is not the same as the order of importance of those aspects. The most important aspect of your hack, which is level design, would be the 2nd thing you work on. In some cases, you might want to save Level Design for last, because the other stuff might put restrictions, and some people want to finish the base rom before working on the levels. (So I guess you can also say that the most important thing is the last thing done, since it may require the other components)
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| Last edited on 2012-03-28 02:00:37 PM by mathelete. |
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| Posted on 2012-03-28 02:24:34 PM |
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I always make a .txt file with ideas. So I made a level called "S.S. Koopa" - you start that level underwater, find an anchor , swim up , find the ship with blood , enter it , and zombies are just there and I mixed some dead koopas in it with BG2 - so there are zombies in that ship and a lot of dead koopas with a lot of blood. And when I start to design my level , I first look for all the things I wanna use in that Level and insert them in the top of the first screen. And First i make a "brain-picture" before I start designing - you first have to think about how it may should look.
It's another point with the OWs. - I draw'em first on the paper.
Sorry for bad english.
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| Posted on 2012-03-28 02:34:07 PM |
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Originally posted by matheleteThe overworld is the first thing you should plan, because it WILL affect how you end up designing the levels. For example, if unlocking a certain level required a really hard secret exit, that secret level should also be of that difficulty. Once the overworld is done, you can begin doing level design, as that is the highest priority. However, an exception is if some ASM gimmick is a main feature of a certain level design, in which case, you better get that done, or you won't be able to continue working on that level's design. However, you can always prepare sublevels in advance, even though they won't be accessible for a while. In fact, the level that I know will take up the most sublevels and might force me to rethink the other levels due to rom space should be the first level that I design.
Remember, the order in which you work on aspects of your hack is not the same as the order of importance of those aspects. The most important aspect of your hack, which is level design, would be the 2nd thing you work on. In some cases, you might want to save Level Design for last, because the other stuff might put restrictions, and some people want to finish the base rom before working on the levels. (So I guess you can also say that the most important thing is the last thing done, since it may require the other components)
I already have one level complete in World 1, and I plan on having 5 or 6 (including Yoshi's House and the castle), in the Yoshi's Island submap. Would working on the submap first then making three or four more levels be a good strategy for this particular submap?
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| Posted on 2012-03-28 03:06:22 PM |
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Consider worlds first. Say your hack has a nine-level cave world: if you think you can make each level distinct and fun, by all means go for it, but reconsider if you think you'll run out of ideas. Make worlds and levels you want to make. The first world doesn't have to be grass and you don't have to stick to conventional themes. I'm using numerous worlds, each only with 5 levels, so each is distinct and the player has a lot of variety. It's useful to have a general idea of the levels you want within a world ahead of time.
People have differing views, but I'm all for designing levels out of order. If you're especially excited to work on a certain level, you shouldn't wait until later when that inspiration may be gone. You also shouldn't force yourself to make a level you find boring, since the player probably won't enjoy it either. Remember that we mainly do this for fun: if it becomes a chore, it's not working.
As for the overworld, I put it as one of the last priorities. All too often, you may see a level slot and think "okay, I have to make a two-exit ______ level." Better to finish a level how you want it and then require the overworld to adjust accordingly.
Remember that level design should come first. Often, this means you can design levels out of garbage tiles then fill them in with graphics later, or you can avoid inserting music until the level is done, so you can listen to whatever you want when testing.
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| Posted on 2012-03-28 03:35:28 PM |
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Originally posted by SupertailsConsider worlds first. Say your hack has a nine-level cave world: if you think you can make each level distinct and fun, by all means go for it, but reconsider if you think you'll run out of ideas. Make worlds and levels you want to make. The first world doesn't have to be grass and you don't have to stick to conventional themes. I'm using numerous worlds, each only with 5 levels, so each is distinct and the player has a lot of variety. It's useful to have a general idea of the levels you want within a world ahead of time.
People have differing views, but I'm all for designing levels out of order. If you're especially excited to work on a certain level, you shouldn't wait until later when that inspiration may be gone. You also shouldn't force yourself to make a level you find boring, since the player probably won't enjoy it either. Remember that we mainly do this for fun: if it becomes a chore, it's not working.
As for the overworld, I put it as one of the last priorities. All too often, you may see a level slot and think "okay, I have to make a two-exit ______ level." Better to finish a level how you want it and then require the overworld to adjust accordingly.
Remember that level design should come first. Often, this means you can design levels out of garbage tiles then fill them in with graphics later, or you can avoid inserting music until the level is done, so you can listen to whatever you want when testing.
Thanks Supertails. Dawn of Reckoning is only my first hack, so I'm still trying to figure out a way. Right now I'm working on both levels and overworld alongside each other. Still, I'm aiming for my first hack to be a good one.
As for creating levels out of order, I have an idea for one of the levels that will be in my final world. That level will be called Hell, and the player will have 666 seconds on the clock. However, I'm not up to the calibur to be working on that level just yet. I will save that idea in a document though.
Thanks again.
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| Posted on 2012-03-28 05:46:53 PM |
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I start out usually figuring out basic stuff, such as how long I aim to make the game, how difficult, and especially what themes the worlds will be based off of. Then I apply any patches I want, and then collect what sprites I'd like to insert. Same goes for what custom blocks and music. Then I look and get a bunch of ExGFX from here, and after all that, I look at what I have in terms of ExGFX. If there's anything I want that I couldn't find in the Graphics area, I'll scour the internet (Usually Spriters Resource), and download the tileset, and rip it myself. (Although I'm having a lot of trouble finding Kirby Squeak Squad tilesets..).
I insert everything into the rom and then after that I guess I start to build. Usually I start off with level 1, and make my way up. Unless I have a really good idea I want to incorporate at that instant, I'd simply jump to that level and do what I need. Between the level making, I create a very simply overworld (VERY simple) just to get ideas of how it'd flow, what levels should have secret exists, etc, and yeah. Then I guess I finish the overworld, touch everything up, and finish.
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| Posted on 2012-03-31 10:00:06 AM |
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I usually try to set up the tileset first. I've seen another thread where a lot of people say they just use cement blocks first and flesh out the level then find a tileset second. I personally could never see myself doing that. Since so many of my ideas comes from the actual tileset itself, once I found the graphics I want that's when I start visualizing the level in my head, what sprites I'm going to use and everything. Everyone does things different I guess.
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| Posted on 2012-03-31 02:30:09 PM |
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How you do it does not matter as long as the end result works out.
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