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| Farming lives |
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Forum Index - SMW Central - Moderation of Hacks and Files - Farming lives |
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| Posted on 2012-03-25 08:11:22 AM |
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Why is it frowned upon? I think I've seen life farming be a removal reason in at least one hack removal log (cannot remember any specifics, but I think it was something besides Bullet Bill plus vine/climbing net). I'd think it would be okay for later in the game when the levels are harder and take more lives to beat. In the original game, it's easy enough to beat get multiple lives by beating Yoshi's Island 2 and then going back and bowl for Koopas to get that life, start + select, rinse and repeat, and in all 3 DKC SNES games, there's a place at the beginning of level 1 where you can get an easy life. Is there anything wrong with 'meaningless lives'?
Also semi-related: would it be okay to have a Yoshi block right next to a reset pipe and when you take Yoshi through the reset pipe, you hit the Yoshi block again and a 1-up comes out. Since the timer resets every time you go through the pipe (it is important for it to do that. It's an integral part of the level design.) you could get 1-ups indefinitely as long as you stay on Yoshi. This isn't entirely intentional, just more of a side effect. If it helps, this level will be really late in the game (probably the last 'normal' level).
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| Posted on 2012-03-25 01:51:32 PM |
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From what I know, 1up farming is considered a "minor" removal reason because it simply has a tendency to "break" the game, and significantly reduce its fun factor. Having a massive stockpile of lives tends to make the game boring, and giving the player an easy way to build up that stockpile only worsens the situation.
Examples of 1up farming scenarios include but are not limited to:
1. 3up moons placed via Map16 (they should never be placed this way, by the way).
2. Dragon Coins placed across subscreen boundaries, particularly if placed directly above a block - the player can just sit there as Small Mario (or duck into the coin as Super Mario) and watch their lives shoot up rapidly. This isn't that common as simply placing the Dragon Coin across the subscreen boundary in the first place is a removal reason in and of itself.
3. Bullet Bill generators or shooters near vines/climbing nets or underwater. As long as the player doesn't touch the ground, they can keep the chain going and hence build lots of lives.
4. Flying Cheep-Cheep/Super Koopa generator + cape. This is actually pretty difficult to pull off, but you can definitely farm 1-ups like this. I personally used to go to Awesome and rack up insane combos on the Cheep-Cheeps using a cape back in the day.
So yeah, basically 1up farming is frowned upon because it removes all challenge from the game. Though, it's not really a big removal reason unless it's repeated in every level.
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| Last edited on 2012-03-25 08:00:22 PM by ChilledXSocks. |
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| Posted on 2012-03-25 02:41:47 PM |
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How does being able to farm lives "remove all the challenge from the game"? Having technically infinite lives doesn't make the levels themselves any easier, all it does is stop you from constantly having to retry hard levels from the very beginning even if they have a midpoint.
The reason I believe easy life farming spots are often pointed out in hack removals is that more often than not they tend to be accidental and the creator might actually not want to nullify the purpose of lives in his/her hack.
Also, if they are too obvious they sometimes look a little unprofessional and like the result of not thoroughly enough testing, as the player doesn't know that it's on purpose.
But as far as I know life farming spots aren't a real removal reason anyway, but merely something that is being pointed out if the hack is already being removed for other reasons. I personally wouldn't worry about it too much, as long as there aren't obvious life farming spots in every other level.
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| Last edited on 2012-03-25 02:47:13 PM by Octopus. |
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| Posted on 2012-03-25 05:54:53 PM |
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From what I can tell, farming lives is only really included as a 'by the way' removal reason. I don't think it's something that could warrant a removal all by itself. As previously mentioned, farming lives is possible in many games and many gamers abuse it. I can't count the number of times I've used the infinite 1up trick in NSMB.
Even so, farming lives is optional to the gamer. Much like even using lives in the first place. I've developed a mental bond to my rewind key and pretty much use it in every hack I play... mainly to save time since I'm a gamer who really likes to get on with the main quest (unless we're talking RPGs).
I'd even bet my bottom dollar that farming lives is possible in a lot of approved hacks on the site.
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| Posted on 2012-03-25 06:35:33 PM |
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Well, I have always pondered over when you should use the add objects for 3-ups, and when you should use map16. If the 3-up is only hidden (meaning once you find it, you always know where it is), you should never use map-16. However, if the 3-up is in a very difficult to reach spot, it is fine to use map-16 to insert the 3-up, because the only way to collect the 3-up over and over again is to reach that hard-to-reach spot over and over again, which is definitely not worth the player's time unless he is desperate for lives. The question you have to ask yourself is: can a player simply return to this level and keep getting the 1-up or 3-up, or does he have to do something in the level to get to it? If it is just hidden there, the player can memorize where it is and it will take away the challenge. On the other hand, let's say there is an alternate path that is twice as hard as the normal one (lot's of tricky jumping), but it leads to the 3-up. Then you might as well use map 16 to put the 3-up, because if the player chooses to replay the level, he/she will also have to replay the hard path in order to get the 3-up again. And a 1-up farming spot is actually nice for a secret room. You could have a bonus room where there is a shell that is sliding between two pipes, each with a triangle at the bottom of them, and lakitus that throw spinies out of the pipes. It is a nice bonus room, perhaps a bonus room for the final special stage. Once the player has reached the final special stage, I don't think you should be worried about giving him/her too many lives, since he/she is most likely to have a lot of lives by then anyway (a lot of lives will have been collected during the game).
I don't think the 1-up farming is actually a removal reason, it is just pointed out. I have not seen any hack that has been removed for that specific reason.
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Forum Index - SMW Central - Moderation of Hacks and Files - Farming lives |
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