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An Apology
Forum Index - Important - Announcements - An Apology
Pages: « 1 2 3 » Thread Closed
I would like to apologize for the recent thread I made in Announcements. It was easy to confuse for official site policy and I was out of line to post it there in the first place. I am sorry for the confusion and harm that it has caused. It was thoughtless of me.

Just to be perfectly clear:

I do not advocate or condone any kind of abuse, verbal or otherwise, towards any person or group regardless of their race, gender, orientation, political views, religion, preferences, interests, etc. and neither does rest of the SMW Central management.

SMW Central was always meant to be a place for everyone, regardless of their background, and this something that will always have the highest priority in the making and enforcement of our rules and policies. Abusive behavior is not acceptable and will not be tolerated. Not now and not in the future.

I have made mistakes and done and said stupid things, some of which there is no real excuse for. I can only try to learn and prevent the same from happening again.
I was on a trip durring the incident, so it didn't affect me, but the whole thing was beyond pathetic imo.

Good to see it's solved though.
I hope all this made you think about well, the ways you think.

I believe realising we made a mistake is how we learn best - at least that's what experience has shown me. Especially mistakes in such a large scale. You have to want to learn from it, though.

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Twitter
tfw I kinda agreed with the original thread (the internet's i'm offended bwaaaaa mob mentality IS stupid) but I can see why there was drama, as there was a better way to get your point across. But I do get it, I hate PC culture, I hate how "sugary and flowery" things have become because I know, behind that, there's just some kind of feeling of moral superiority. I mean, it feels good to "tackle on the EVIL racist who said an offensive joke!", but as it is, it really feels like PC culture grew so strong just because people are getting addicted to that "good feeling", and not truly out of concern for others. Which is hypocrital. That's my experience, maybe not on this site -I'm not that active anymore- but definitely on most social media and particularly Tumblr and Twitter.

I also get the "feeling alienated" thing, I've been more and more of a hermit simply because it's like I might accidentally offend someone because I might accidentally say a "bad" word. And I'm not even a white dude, so no "privilege" to check, I guess. Anyways, maybe it's just because I live in a poor country where your main concern isn't if someone will call you a f word (in fact, a rough translation of the f word IS perhaps one of the most common words here and can mean anything from "buddy" to its original meaning), but if you'll eat something today or if you'll get shot over your cellphone or your shoes or whatever, but I do believe words will stop having that dreaded "power" they have once people grow up and truly let the past go and treat them as what they are, edgy words kids say to feel cool. Like that South Park episode with "shit".

In my opinion the apology wasn't really needed but if that will calm things down, so be it.

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"4shitkids changes the voice of anime, censored anime, and created ghorrible shows. 4KIDS UCKS.
- 13 year old me
Yeah.. for me its still difficult to "get" why some people overreacted so badly about that post.

But i kinda understand.. i remember the day i was called a racist for reffering to a pair of eyeglasses as black. There are lots of people that are oversensitive to all sorts of words.
Verbal communication really sucks.
I also have to add something, as a "minority" myself. I'm not claiming to represent all minorities, as everyone has their own opinion but...

PC culture does feel like it treats me or people like me as helpless endangered animals who have to be sheltered and "protected" from evil "words" and "microaggressions" and whatever, and can't fend off for themselves. And frankly, I personally find that more offensive than any slur because it assumes I'm an useless piece of shit who can't do anything by himself just because I'm a minority. Of course, some other people from minority groups don't feel like that at all, but it goes to show that we're people too, we're not a monolith.

And lastly, the reason I find internet "censorship" so irritating is because I live in a country with heavy censorship, so that's a delicate topic for me and I will never support any kind of censorship, unless it's aimed at stuff truly harmful (as if, wanting to form terrorist groups or promoting dangerous ideologies)

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"4shitkids changes the voice of anime, censored anime, and created ghorrible shows. 4KIDS UCKS.
- 13 year old me
The sad truth you have to swallow is that some people are sensitive to these words. I bet they wish they could shrug it off like you guys can. But bad life experiences and events sometimes leads to trauma. The bad words we don't want everyone to use are words very commonly associated with bullying and prejudice.

On the other side of the fence, it's honestly not hard to avoid the usage of these words casually. If you're just so used to use them in your circle of friends, and you bend down and promise you don't have any actual prejudice, sure, I'm not going to get in your way. But you should know that using them in public is not appropriate. If it slipped, apologising and trying to not do it again is a quite nice way to get around.

Now I ask: why would you oppose to this? What's the benefit of allowing these words to run rampant and be used casually? The payoff is creating an environment that's not welcoming to everyone. If one has a bad experience with the f-word, for example, and they see people using it all over and no action being taken over it, they'll certainly feel this is not a place for them.
How much do these people matter?

"Why is this an issue now? A few years ago, nobody cared..." This isn't true. People have cared for years, for decades, for centuries. What's happening now is that they're slowly gaining the power to defend themselves, and gathering the good people's backs. To sum it up.

To summarise; be empathetic. It doesn't hurt to respect other people's feelings. You may have been called out for using a bad word, but for the greater good, swallow it one time; these minorities have been swallowing it for their entire lives.

I wasn't there to speak up at the time, probably for the better - I'm better off speaking up when things are cooler than warmer - so here's what I have to say on the subject.

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Twitter
Originally posted by Koopster
The sad truth you have to swallow is that some people are sensitive to these words. I bet they wish they could shrug it off like you guys can. But bad life experiences and events sometimes leads to trauma. The bad words we don't want everyone to use are words very commonly associated with bullying and prejudice.

On the other side of the fence, it's honestly not hard to avoid the usage of these words casually. If you're just so used to use them in your circle of friends, and you bend down and promise you don't have any actual prejudice, sure, I'm not going to get in your way. But you should know that using them in public is not appropriate. If it slipped, apologising and trying to not do it again is a quite nice way to get around.

Now I ask: why would you oppose to this? What's the benefit of allowing these words to run rampant and be used casually? The payoff is creating an environment that's not welcoming to everyone. If one has a bad experience with the f-word, for example, and they see people using it all over and no action being taken over it, they'll certainly feel this is not a place for them.
How much do these people matter?

"Why is this an issue now? A few years ago, nobody cared..." This isn't true. People have cared for years, for decades, for centuries. What's happening now is that they're slowly gaining the power to defend themselves, and gathering the good people's backs. To sum it up.

To summarise; be empathetic. It doesn't hurt to respect other people's feelings. You may have been called out for using a bad word, but for the greater good, swallow it one time; these minorities have been swallowing it for their entire lives.

I wasn't there to speak up at the time, probably for the better - I'm better off speaking up when things are cooler than warmer - so here's what I have to say on the subject.


I don't really do it for myself, as I rarely use these words anyways (I was educated to be mostly proper and not swear much), it's more aboit freedom of speech. As I said, where I live freedom of speech is severely restricted, so it's a very important topic for me. I don't really want a toxic environment, I just want censorship to be avoided as much as it can be, and I don't want black comedy or dark jokes to be outlawed or something -the thing with the nazi pug was a good example. You might not like it, but it was just a joke. Very dark, but still a joke. Going to jail for a joke (no matter how black, offensive or distasteful it is) is never okay-. I'm talking about life in general, SMWC is mostly fine to be honest.

Empathy is important, but so is strength. I believe in balance. I bet quite a lot of easily offended people will eventually learn to shrug it off, with age and experiences. Sadly, the word is harsh, I'm scared but I know there's not much I can do, except take the good experiences and get over the bad ones. I refuse to become hateful and evil like those who make the world a worse place, but I do enjoy dark comedy so it still worries me.

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"4shitkids changes the voice of anime, censored anime, and created ghorrible shows. 4KIDS UCKS.
- 13 year old me
Even if I kinda agree with the original thread (as several people did) the discussion was in its whole very badly done, I mean, you picked up the least suitable day, you didn't discussed with the rest of the staff about it, etc... But honestly, I don't think these factors would change anything, the people who respond aggresively, defensively or overreacted would still do it. Political correctness is a very strong tendence right now, not only in SMWC, in mostly all internet places, so the reactions about a topic like that would be the same as the topic itself: polemic.

Sadly, I think this won't be matter of discussion anymore (for the reasons I've said before) but I don't lose the hope one day this could be discussed in a civilized way, just not arguing defensively to a side just because they are in the opposite side (because that was pretty much the whole discussion in the original thread, plus other people just making pointless posts as always)

and a warm hello to twitter boiz, they surely will react to this post
Layout made by MaxodeX
Completely missed the topic. No need to apologize though IMO Kieran.

I remember ending up banning a person who frequently used the word "nigga" or other "politically incorrect" terms back in the day when I was on staff. Actually I don't know if I really banned him but at least I warned him and had some PMs going back and forth about the topic. He didn't understand the point at all since this was everyday language for him. Different society, culture and environments I take it.
He seems to be perma'd by some different admin, so it probably wasn't a loss for SMWC anyway.

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I play Pokemon Red glitchless speedruns occasionally. Check out my twitch!

Exits done: 45, Overworld: 85%
Play through Taomb Demo 3
Well, Taomb may have finally died. Thanks guys. Staff should revamp the whole rating system and start modding the comments again. It's an absolute calamity and has never been this bad before.

I don't think anything will happen on this site if you say motherfucker shithead pissstain cumgargler whorebag bitchboy dickhead asshole or pussyfart. What could have been an interesting conversation on the severity of other swearwords that can be considered slurs ranging from gay to nigger and which of those words should be acceptable to use on the site, actually turned into a shit-flinging contest about who is being a good person and who isn't. At that point one might say what did you expect? It's sad in my eyes. You could have definitely handled it better so that it would have turned into such a conversation, but on the other hand, expecting it to have turned into a conversation like that might be wishful thinking.

Whatever people think of your decision to post things on the site though, it is your site, you should be able to do whatever you want with it, although you should also be able to judge the damage of whatever actions you ensue.
Was sexual harassment not allowed in this site?
EDIT: OMG! 757th POST!!!
Originally posted by kamekku14
Was sexual harassment not allowed in this site?

Never. I'm confused, though: why did you bring this up? I have a feeling there was a misunderstanding here at some point.

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Having problems with another user on our Discord server? Don't hesitate to message me here or on Discord.
I also am in belief that there is honestly no need for you to be so apologetic about something like this, especially when for the entirety of the thread you were trying to keep things as civil as possible.

To be quite honest it looked as though we WERE having a proper discussion about the topic at hand for a while, until xkeeper made a bunch of rereg accounts and literally turned the thread into a shit flinging contest in order to get people more riled up and antagonistic towards Kieran than the situation ever called for.

I definitely think something needs to be said about that though because the whole thing leaves a really, REALLY bad taste in my mouth.

I cannot for the life of me understand why some people were even bothering to defend any of xkeeper's posts in that thread, regardless of whatever morality was trying to be reinforced in them.

First and foremost, Xkeeper was someone who was banned in the past (multiple times, might I add) for being a problematic user who quite frankly, treated the people who they interacted with for the limited time they were allowed here like dogshit, so them making even more rereg accounts in addition to the one (idk there may be more than that?) they've already made in the past is reason enough to have their posts deleted and their accounts banned (which, by the way, was one of the points used to essentially drag Kieran's name through the mud to make it look like some attempt to silence their opinion, when that literally was not the case at all and just Kieran reinforcing rules about mass reregs that have been consistently reinforced on the site for literally as long as I can remember).

You could argue that no one knew it was xkeeper at the time, but the fact that they both logged and made derogatory remarks to most of the posts in the thread via their twitter would make it pretty obvious that they were behind the posts that kept getting deleted. If that isn't proof enough, Xkeeper came onto the smwc discord shortly after using the same name as one of the accounts making the posts.

This person has had bad beef with Kieran/us as a website since its creation. Xkeeper might have been making posts that seem morally acceptable without any sort of context and yes, some of the points were valid, but it's incredibly obvious that those points were never brought up to actually defend any of the groups of people they claimed to argue for; merely, the topic was used as a way for Xkeeper to publicly harass, shame, and antagonize Kieran while simultaneously painting a big red target on on his ass, all while getting away with it while looking like some sort of selfless bighearted hero who stood up for the oppressed.

I am not saying that Xkeeper doesn't believe in these values either. I am sure that they have very valid reasons for doing so, but for this specific instance those beliefs and values were used as an excuse to be an asshole and that really doesn't sit right with me.

Like, if you aren't convinced and still believe Xkeeper has turned over a new leaf and was doing this out of a burning desire to stand up for whats right, then why on earth were the twitter remarks to each post necessary at all? Doing something like that doesn't scream "well intentions" even by the loosest of definitions.

I have minimal interaction with a lot of the people here nowadays so if you want to dislike me or view me in a negative light for making a post like this, then do as you will, but I think Kieran deserves better than to be a verbal punching bag and a doormat.
Originally posted by Adam
but I think Kieran deserves better than to be a verbal punching bag and a doormat.

Seeing as Kieran owns the site and was perfectly civil, it's only natural to feel that way, and considering Xkeeper is the kind of person who will call Kieran a "whiny baby man" and admits to ban evading "when[ever] smwc does something terrible to call them out on it", I don't think they're the kind of person anyone should try and defend even if you agree with the message, especially when they don't intend to actually contribute to the community in any way.

Either way, it seems apparent, at least to me, that the community just can't handle this kind of discussion civilly without certain unpleasant people ruining it, and that's a bloody shame. It's a discussion worth having, especially considering the staff themselves appears to be very mixed on the issue.

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Xkeeper posted about that thread on twitter and a lot of people linked to that because it's like the only person who kinda sorta archived the discussion when the thread was originally deleted (not just trashed), but other than that I don't really see why you're all talking about her when she wasn't even a part of the actual thread.


Also feel like you all missed the part where the big bad thing that happened wasn't that the thread "turned bad because of the uncivil responses (of which there were like 5 by new throwaway accounts, all of which Kieran deleted), but that the thread itself was shit and had no business being here.
This thread also isn't here for you all to continue the discussion, since it's not going to lead to anything still! The verdict was made in this thread's OP already so there isn't really a goal to be reached here!
I very much like the point Adam brings up about people using their "morality" as a free pass to be an asshole [+ blaming the other side for "not being civil"]. It's a shame that kind of behavior is so widely defended.

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Twitter
Originally posted by leod
the thread itself was shit and had no business being here

I think there was enough people that agreed about this being a matter of discussion here to say it's just "shit" and "has no business being here", it's very out of place to say that just because you think that way.
Layout made by MaxodeX

Originally posted by leod
the thread itself was shit and had no business being here


I didn't know a mod suddenly has higher authority and judgement over what should be here or not than the site owner themselves 🤔
Officially a Mega Man addict.
Major thanks to Giga and Erik557 for the layout.
Originally posted by Zekrom PKstarship
Originally posted by leod
the thread itself was shit and had no business being here

I didn't know a mod suddenly has higher authority and judgement over what should be here or not than the site owner themselves 🤔


The site owner created the thread without the knowledge of the staff team and was quickly rebuked by almost every staff member who actually spoke up. It was an unmitigated disaster that could have easily been avoided had it been brought up with the staff team at any point prior to posting.

Yes, the site owner has the ability to do anything they want at any time up to and including shutting the entire thing down permanently. No, that does not mean their actions are automatically acceptable or justifiable. By creating a team of staff and delegating responsibilities throughout them, you give up your ability to do whatever you want without accountability. "The site owner did it" is not and never has been an acceptable excuse for anything. Otherwise, there is no reason for the staff to exist.

It doesn't matter what your opinion on the topic of the thread was. The thread itself was bad. It equated words with at least one non-offensive meaning and words with none, as well as heavily implied future policy change by being posted in announcements instead of literally anywhere else. Those two issues undermined the entire point of the thread, turning what could have been a simple discussion on political correctness and offensiveness into a shitshow that caused a nonzero amount of prominent members to leave. The thread was shit and had no business being here.
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