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An Apology

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Originally posted by leod
I don't really see why you're all talking about her when she wasn't even a part of the actual thread.

Xkeeper is, as the others said, the person that "made a bunch of rereg accounts and literally turned the thread into a shit flinging contest", so saying "she wasn't even a part of the actual thread" is quite the stretch...

Quote
The thread itself was shit and had no business being here.

The thread itself may have been badly formulated but the topic it brought up was still important. A bad formulation is different from a bad intent. And if people are still debating here, doesn't this rather mean than they are actively interested in talking about such a topic ? No matter how bad the thread was in certain people's opinion, it caused the general public to react and have a complex debate, and this debate has no particular reason to be actively or passively shut down. What's happening in this very thread is very civil and correct in my humble opinion.
So basically the thread was shit and had no business being here basically just because some staff members say it (because seriously, when you say "almost every staff member who actually spoke up" I'm sure all of them aren't even 1/3 part of the staff team), ignoring completely the thoughts of some regular users, other current and former staff members and the site owner.
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Originally posted by Koopster
I very much like the point Adam brings up about people using their "morality" as a free pass to be an asshole [+ blaming the other side for "not being civil"]. It's a shame that kind of behavior is so widely defended.

I'm curious to know why they still actively follow the daily activities of the site they got banned from 7 years ago. It's rather weird and unnecessary.
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Hi.
I'm still astounded the thread was an issue.
It was presented wrong, sure, but it was literally a question. Nothing more severe.

Maybe the other staff didn't know, but heaven forbid Kieran actually ask a bloody question to his userbase.

Yet, ppl actually left over this? It's insane!


Apology still appreciated though, needed or not.
Please pardon the eye.
As long as this song doesn't get banned it's all good
i just lurk sometimes

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I should have something witty to put here (even if it's just to update dated info), shouldn't I?

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I agree with some of Kieran's general points, but his approach to the entire subject was godawful.

My thoughts on this align with leictron's and adam's posts. I find the apology by and large was unncessary. The only thing you do deserve to apologize for was not following proper protocol that you and the staff delegate as to how you approach these kinds of discussions. And yes, ill admit, the OP of the last thread wasn't that good in approach, but that in itself isn't to blame how later on you had agitators such as xkeeper and her ilk coming in with the intention of treating their opposition as terrible people when they themselves p much act like the people they constructed in their minds against.

The truth is, I don't think anyone reasonable on SMWC acts with any malicious intent towards any marginalized groups of people on here and I am sure you do a great job at cracking down posts and people on here that flagrantly violate the explicit rules SMWC has codified.

The issue though that I see is this: You have people in positions of authority use varying criteria and personal standards on what to determine on who is or isn't acting in good faith. You guys should try to have a consistent litmus test on what kinds of posts should be left alone and those that do require moderator/admin intervention.

Alternatively you could just ban any and all political talk considering how the outcome of political discussions usually devolve into uncivilized behavior on all sides. And lets be honest, why would anyone join a ROM-Hacking site just to shill their political opinions anyway, aren't there other places for that kind of shit?
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Originally posted by StrikeForcer
Alternatively you could just ban any and all political talk considering how the outcome of political discussions usually devolve into uncivilized behavior on all sides.

Well, I would ask the mods to accept this.


Originally posted by Veck
I'm confused, though: why did you bring this up?

Ummmmm...
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since the last thread was trashed before I could say anything I'm just gonna fuckin say it lmao

To Kieran, you have to be careful with that offensive shit, because even if it's in an explanation, or in an educational context, you're still going to piss people off by using them. I see the point you tried to make, and I can somewhat agree with the intentions behind it, but you really could have executed the thread better

But to others, miss me with that double standard shit (any of these can be found with a simple search on the discord server; if you can't find them anymore they were deleted sometime after this post because these were screenshots from literal minutes ago)













Disclaimer: I honestly don't give a shit if the staff uses these words or say these things, I'm just pointing out the blatant hypocrisy here.
I will gladly explain the context of any of these posts if you don't feel like searching for the posts and scrolling up for 2 seconds (I included jokes because apparently jokes that are offensive are also not allowed)


this is apparently okay and won't get staff punished (all of the former staff shown here who are no longer staff/etc. resigned from their positions, they weren't punished at all from what normal users can see), but making a "urmomgay" joke or the owner saying it, nO NO NO that's where you CROSSED THE LINE time to send him to the FUCKING GULAGS

I could also easily bring up the FuSoYa Quebec thing again if any of you forgot (not staff but arguably just as significant as any other staff member on here, for obvious reasons)

I'm not saying go around calling everyone the n-word, etc.; if you take what I'm saying as a greenlight you're an asshole. I'm saying that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

At this point I'm justifying myself way too much for trivial shit that can be found out through basic context, but I'll say this too. I'm not talking about people who are actually offended, I'm talking about the white knights using WHOLESOME MORALS AND VALUES as an excuse to be toxic

to end it off, I could easily participate in this "nuh uh" "yuh huh" war until a moderator arbitrarily decides a winner and closes the thread as per usual, but unless someone says something that hasn't been regurgitated already I'm not going to reply
I honestly thought that if I were to stay and just reside as a lurker, stuff would be alright, but seeing this is inexcusable nonsense. Shame on Kieran for being extremely naive and thinking we'd be cool by hearing that I shouldn't complain about something as disgusting as discrimination towards normal people with the slightest of nudges. However, by far the biggest thing that pissed me off is that my 'incorrect' statements about staff wanting to be somewhat carefree is debunked because of them actually being hypocrite whiners. Take a REALLY BIG LOOK at yourself, people, and fix this mess before it's too late and the site gets swallowed by incompetentcy.

I'm heartbroken. The site i've been a fan of and have been protecting for 8 straight years is no longer a good place. Guess my warnings were no use...

Feel free to ban me for this but that automatically means you can't handle criticism.
Latios, drama on this site happens all the time. Don't let Kieran's personal opinions scare you away. It's not like his thoughts affect how the site is run.

The site at the end of the day is still about SMW hacks. That will never change. Your enjoyment you have playing or creating them should still be the same. The only time you should give up on the site is when you no longer enjoy SMW hacks as a whole.

Plus, let's be honest here, most arguments & drama on SMWCentral are pretty retarded. We're hacking a children's game for Pete's sake.
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Hi.
This is exactly what makes this so bothersome. Why scare the users away by having EXTREME amounts of gray area? Why is it so hard to make this site for hacking only, and plaster a big warning on the Discord server for being a fun but potentially hurtful place, where staff are free to spread hypocrite inconsistencies? 'It's not possible' is NOT a valid excuse. Either be proud to be a mod of a particularly big site or remain a regular member with obvious extra rights when you are super duper chill, as in, not offended by people spreading stupid slurs and vaguely trying to keep conversation intact by spamming emotes that get added or removed 'for fun' even though there's no reason to.
Yeah, it's a problem. It's something the staff who remain will have to work on themselves. Kieran's threads have unintentionally unearthed a fatal flaw in the staff team's view on certain issues.
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Hi.
apology accepted :)
ask me if i give a f*ck...
Originally posted by Mathos
Xkeeper is, as the others said, the person that "made a bunch of rereg accounts and literally turned the thread into a shit flinging contest", so saying "she wasn't even a part of the actual thread" is quite the stretch...

I mean, I know for a fact that you can't back up this really kind of heavy accusation. You're aware that we, as always, have IP logs, were actively checking for reregs as the thread went on, right? Don't spread lies about people, even if those people are banned from here.

(I was just told that Xkeeper was exactly one of those accounts, and Kieran specifically allowed that re-reg and even invited her to the Discord, so uh yeah. I can't say I agree with randomly allowing a permabanned user back just to participate in a big pile of drama, but I wasn't around at that time so I didn't even know it happened.)


Originally posted by StrikeForcer
The issue though that I see is this: You have people in positions of authority use varying criteria and personal standards on what to determine on who is or isn't acting in good faith.

.. what exactly is this even referring to? This doesn't seem to have to do with the discussion here, so it's kind of hard to figure out what exactly you're talking about, since this wasn't an issue of moderation or anything. Though that would be better placed in its own discussion, or in staff feedback.

Originally posted by StrikeForcer
Alternatively you could just ban any and all political talk considering how the outcome of political discussions usually devolve into uncivilized behavior on all sides. And lets be honest, why would anyone join a ROM-Hacking site just to shill their political opinions anyway, aren't there other places for that kind of shit?

And yet we had a politics thread that went just fine. You're completely missing the issue here, which is how that thread was posted and where and by whom.
The contents of that thread could've gone just fine into a GD or RC thread, given enough disclaimer that it has nothing to do with official site policy and really is just a discussion, but it wasn't.


Originally posted by ThePat545
wall of quotes

I mean, I don't even understand your issue with some of these quotes. idol's first one is a funny (lol at thinking that that's racism) and the second one is a completely normal sentence in response to Alcaro acting like he's an expert on the subject of rape and when it's okay to use the word to mean things that aren't the actual crime. Like, did you just screenshot that because she used the word rape? You're aware that it's not a slur, right?
Maxo's, Telinc's and Medic's quotes are totally valid complaints yeah, until you remember that "staff" is not a monolithic mass of people with all the same ideals (especially since we have two types of staff, and one of those types isn't chosen for their expert handling of words). I'm fairly sure you've never seen any of the 3 people you quoted there complain about other people saying those things, but you can be sure that we internally told them off for that exact sort of thing, multiple times in some cases. If you think that isn't consistent, then please point out any single person we've ever banned only for saying either of those specific words.

As for my quote there, I'm saying that with the trend of gun debate dying down just a week or two after a shooting every single time, maybe the fact that there's been tragedies back to back recently will actually have the side effect of not allowing them to bury that debate for once. Because, as someone living just fine in a country without guns, it's hilariously stupid how easily the politicians over there get to ignore it given the scale and frequency of this sort of shit.

FuSoYa got a site warning for the Quebec thing as you might expect anyone would for that.
Just because you don't see things doesn't mean they're not happening!


However, now that I went and addressed all that, as you've been told multiple times before, if you've got an issue with staff then send a staff feedback instead of waiting for the next big drama thread and hijacking that, regardless of how relevant it is. If you actually want a response then the staff feedback page even says to leave your name, since the admins won't know who sent it otherwise. This doesn't mean they go unnoticed if you don't do that, but you seem to have a knack for assuming that nothing happened if you don't personally see that it did, even if told otherwise, so leaving your name to be told immediately if something is done should be helpful.






ALL THAT BEING SAID, keep this thread on topic. This thread isn't "continue the original thread as if nothing happened", this thread is what the title says. If you want to respond to my post further, just send me a PM so we don't keep going in this thread forever.
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Maybe it's an idea to just openly mention those warnings then? If you don't know shit it's easy to assume you're just slacking off. And staff feedback, as literally has been mentioned before, is only for the admins, of which exactly zero are good at managing user problems, and one even admitted to wanting to have fun like a regular member, which imo, is a poor thing to say when you have that many responsibillities. Either make the site more strict and let it serve it's purpose as a SMW Hacking Forum, or just sod off with trying to make the mix work and make it 4Chan 2.0. Holding off thinking it'll never work, NEVER works.
Originally posted by leod
idol's first one is a funny (lol at thinking that that's racism)


Yeah, funny, okay, but if somebody do the same with black people, would it be considered funny? No. It will be interpreted as racism, as much "funny" or innocent the joke were. Because yes, racism against white people is perfectly fine and you can joke about it, but not against black people, and that IS a fact. Don't tell it depends of the context because every instance of a joke with black people is interpreted as racism (and mostly end with bans), while joking with white people is just "funny" and accepted. That's just stupid and only let us to look how impartial is the criteria.
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I guess I'm missing something here.
Wasn't the purpose of Kieran's question to try and foster ppl not needing to be afraid that some random thing they say could offend others, so long as they try to be mindful not to be hurtful?

The reaction looked to me like unnecessary hate. And it looked completely contrary to the point.
Please pardon the eye.
Sure, but he did it in a very unthoughtful way, and since the staff found it neccesary to have their say, it's a recipe for disaster.
Yeah. It wasn't really done right. But was the harsh reaction really necessary? And, iirc, ppl were inferring Kieran was being racist or something?
He asked a question. He didn't propose the holocaust.

It drives me crazy when a group of ppl jump on a single person, especially when it doesn't really look like everything they're accusing the person of is even accurate.

I could be mistaken about what I saw, but I don't think I am.
Please pardon the eye.
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