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2019, SMW Central, and you!
Forum Index - Important - Announcements - 2019, SMW Central, and you!
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Originally posted by Shiny Ninetails
Also, I think the staff's response to Lunar Magic 3.00 was kinda... unexpectedly passive-aggressive, by saying the least. At least that's the impression the "we wasn't informed about this" phrase gives to me (this includes the LM3.00's announcement in discord, which by casuality a friend shared it in another discord server where I'm in). It seemed like the staff would have received this in the worst way possible.

This isn't an official statement by any means, but that wasn't the intention behind the announcement at all, believe me. As the staff member who wrote the News post about the resource incompatibility thread in the first place, let me apologize for any misconceptions regarding the intentions, I definitely could have phrased everything a whole lot better. I give major props to FuSoYa, Vitor Vilela, and anybody else who contributed to the creation of Lunar Magic 3.00. It's an amazing addition and its new features allow for exponentially increased possible design choices and I'm personally very excited to see what the community can do. The only reason that the "staff wasn't informed" thing was mentioned at all is to cover our bases when suddenly some of our resources aren't gonna work for the new general hacking tool—such huge changes make that result unsurprising at all and it's a minuscule side effect of a wonderful new tool. Just some adjustments are needing to be made is all.

Originally posted by Tattletale
shouldn't suicide jokes and anything of the sorts be also banned / frowned upon? They are a pretty serious matter too.

I agree on that one, by the way. Just one of the things that will need be addressed as more changes come to the site and its policies. Again, let me state that it's not an official statement of "this will happen", but I definitely agree that something should be done about it. Personally I'm uncomfortable that it's something so easily joked about, even if it's how some people cope.
Originally posted by Tattletale
shouldn't suicide jokes and anything of the sorts be also banned / frowned upon?


This is not something we currently monitor. However, we've already received some feedback about exactly this, so it's clear that some people don't like it.
♪♫♩♬
I used to tell people off for those when I was mod, so it sort of was a thing before, too.
just wanted to pop in and note that we have received a slew of very helpful / insightful staff feedbacks from everyone - and until we launch our survey if you guys would like to keep sending them in it'd be very beneficial.

thanks!
Awesome! I think it will be pretty contributing to the site #ab{:D}
I'm sure you'll find that polls will be a great way to gauge user opinion on complicated issues. ^.^

















Originally posted by Koopster
Bleh... I seriously think you guys need to stop making such a big deal out of staff not allowing you to use certain slurs publicly.

Originally posted by Decoy Blimp
This is only an issue for people who don't understand why saying the N word is bad and people who clearly don't understand what jokes are and aren't appropriate.

Restricting the whole topic to just "saying slurs or not" is clearly what I didn't expect when I said this topic would need a "mature and open-minded" discussion.
That said, I hope the topic will be still considered in the survey (because I didn't send anything via staff feedback).

Originally posted by Veck
The only reason that the "staff wasn't informed" thing was mentioned at all is to cover our bases when suddenly some of our resources aren't gonna work for the new general hacking tool—such huge changes make that result unsurprising at all and it's a minuscule side effect of a wonderful new tool.

Totally understandable, but considering that the main tools and resources (example: big patches like SA-1) were updated almost instantly after LM3.00 was released minimizes a bit the point and the fact that idol indirectly blamed Vitor about the incompatibilities, which led it to cancel BLDC, thing that is totally off in my point of view (not so much the cancelling but the blame, even more considering that the same people behind LM3.00 were the ones who updated most of the resources).
Layout made by MaxodeX
Originally posted by Shiny Ninetales
Restricting the whole topic to just "saying slurs or not" is clearly what I didn't expect when I said this topic would need a "mature and open-minded" discussion.

What else is there then? It might be nice to clarify, as at least personally I can't think of what else you could be on about.
Originally posted by Shiny Ninetails
considering that the main tools and resources (example: big patches like SA-1) were updated almost instantly after LM3.00 was released minimizes a bit the point and the fact that idol indirectly blamed Vitor about the incompatibilities, which led it to cancel BLDC

Main tools and resources like SA-1 being updated to not be incompatible is definitely a plus and I won't argue against that, and it being done by the same people behind LM3.00 isn't being ignored either. However, something of that scale coming out only a couple months before a contest that relies on a whole slew of external resources—no matter if it ended up a surprise that benefits SMW romhacking as a whole—is still a slight inconvenience for scheduling and moderating, even if it ends up being only temporary (and minor) in the long run. That's the main point of all this, even if it hasn't been expressed as clearly by us as it probably could have been. Lunar Magic 3 does way more good than it does bad, some resources just need to be brought up to snuff is all. Running BLDC in this environment didn't seem like the best option, but I think you guys will still enjoy what we have in store regardless. #tb{:)}

Originally posted by Shiny Ninetales
Restricting the whole topic to just "saying slurs or not" is clearly what I didn't expect when I said this topic would need a "mature and open-minded" discussion.

Like Koopster above, I'm also curious about what the discussion is actually about then. I've tried multiple times to see it from a different point of view, but whenever the topic of discussion is brought up that's generally how it's phrased and argued from both sides of the discussion on this site.
Originally posted by Koopster
What else is there then? It might be nice to clarify, as at least personally I can't think of what else you could be on about.

Originally posted by Veck
Like Koopster above, I'm also curious about what the discussion is actually about then. I've tried multiple times to see it from a different point of view, but whenever the topic of discussion is brought up that's generally how it's phrased and argued from both sides of the discussion on this site.


I think what he is referring to is that you cannot say those "cursed" words (the N and F ones) in any circumstances to the point of being almost ridiculous, I remember Kieran talking about the N word and he made a post about it, he wrote the word like one normally should and some people were calling him out for not censoring it and he had to change it iirc.
I'm not in favor of using it in any offensive ways, but some people act like they just want to deny the existence of that word and you can't even mention it as an example or as a joke (I'm aware about the latest being a more delicate matter, as it depends on what kind of joke you're doing, although Nigga would be more appropiate for this kind of stuff instead of Nigger because the word itself was made as a derogatory term against black people).
Pretty sure jokes about the F word shouldn't be allowed for jokes though, same reason as above.

Originally posted by Decoy Blimp
If you want to use slurs and make offensive jokes, go to 4chan or incels.me. This isn't the place for that type of talk.


wow this man has a point of view that differs from mine I better call him an incel amirite xD
i think that each word has a context. In my country for example, exists the word "Weon", Weon can be friend, asshole, a thing or anything basically and depends how you use it on a context if it is a slur or not, a simple word without context is basically nothing, in some contexts it can be very offensive or not, then depends. For that i think that ban specific words is an stupid idea.

About humour i think that there aren't holy concepts, as long as you don't use it to discriminate an specific person or offend an specific person and the only reason that you made that joke is only to makes laugh people, i don't think that should be banned. Also i feel a lot of double standar when people do jokes, because sometimes they do white people jokes and all laugh, if it is a joke about other group then they get angry lol.

(Sorry for my bad english)

It also should noted that the strength of swear words depends on where you live and with whose words you're referring to. America, for example, is quite strict about swearing whereas people swear all over the place in Europe, in comparison at least (here in Germany, for example, "Scheiße" usually isn't even censored and its translation is closer to "crap" than "shit").

And regarding anoni's point: Yeah, dark humour is a grey zone because they involve sensible topics including death, rape, racism, negative steriotypes (although not all of the latter are considered dark humour, again, culture), etc. As you put it, it often ends up a hit or miss, everyone find it funny, insulting the people the joke refers to, no one laughs or the insulting the people the joke doesn't refer to.

Yay, first layout!
Originally posted by Pinci
I think what he is referring to is that you cannot say those "cursed" words (the N and F ones) in any circumstances to the point of being almost ridiculous, I remember Kieran talking about the N word and he made a post about it, he wrote the word like one normally should and some people were calling him out for not censoring it and he had to change it iirc.

I’m not entirely sure I agree with having it always need to be censored in that manner, but it’s definitely the safer option when it comes to covering our own bases as a more inclusive community. Even if the utmost respect is meant when discussing them, there’s still going to be that initial ‘cringe’ upon seeing them just laid bare like that and it’s not a pleasant sight. Try as you may, you’re not going to reap them of their history/power—make them any less uncomfortable to those who have had to be on the receiving end of them—by just using them as if they were any other words. It may seem like a bit much to have to constantly refer to them in that manner, but even the mere presentation of one’s words has a lot of power too and can show that there's a stigma attached to those words.

Originally posted by Pinci
I'm not in favor of using it in any offensive ways, but some people act like they just want to deny the existence of that word and you can't even mention it as an example or as a joke (I'm aware about the latest being a more delicate matter, as it depends on what kind of joke you're doing, although Nigga would be more appropiate for this kind of stuff instead of Nigger because the word itself was made as a derogatory term against black people).
Pretty sure jokes about the F word shouldn't be allowed for jokes though, same reason as above.

Let me just say that I’m glad to see that for the most part people seem to be in favor of not using words like that in a derogatory or offensive manner. Aside from a few outliers, this is something that a lot of people on both sides of the discussion seem to be able to agree on. I think that’s a good first step. To continue, however:

I touched on it in my first paragraph, but again the problem with using these words in other contexts is that even if you just mean them as examples, that doesn’t completely divorce them from their original meanings. You have to be extremely careful when it comes to things like that, and if the rules seem in anyway overbearing about that it’s because it’s the safest option for us. That applies to dark humor as well—hell, I used to be into jokes like that myself. As recent as a couple years ago, I would make those same kinds of jokes with my friends in other communities or other servers. However, I learned that even if people don’t actually intend any derogatory meaning toward those that the words originally target—or in cases like the n word where there are different "forms" of the words—the intention behind the joke still doesn't change the power or ill meaning that those certain words hold. I only mention my own experience to express that in no way do I mean to vilify people who enjoy that type of humor. One can mean it as harmlessly as possible, but they're still using language that marginalize groups of people and that's not acceptable here.

Originally posted by Pinci
Originally posted by Decoy Blimp
If you want to use slurs and make offensive jokes, go to 4chan or incels.me. This isn't the place for that type of talk.


wow this man has a point of view that differs from mine I better call him an incel amirite xD

We're not gonna get into this. I mean this for both sides of the debate—keep it civil.
Yeah, 2019 will be the year of the revolution.

With the Lunar Magic 3.01 released, upgraded versions of the tools and SA-1, making SMW levels will be epic than before. Coming soon, in a near future we will create a Lunar Magic version for Super Mario Advance 2 and SMW will be too obsolete.

You know, SMW have limitations due of the SNES and 16-bits, but could it be possible for anyone to break these limits? Surprassing our expectations?

Nobody knows, but i challenge anyone to prove this.

By the way, what's happening with GIEPHY? Due to the Lunar Magic 3.01, there are many GIEPHY sprites and nothing about this tool? Someone told me to never use the current version of GIEPHY in the LM 3.01. Would it broke the ROM if this happens? Would i use the old version of Lunar Magic (Prior to 3.00) to make GIEPHY work?

Good moments for SMWCentral will happen and nobody won't deny this.
anonimzwx and Pinci got partially the point of what I tried to say, but not completely at all, going to complement it:

The context point was already touched by anonimzwx, but since you (Veck) pointed against it with the statement that "words wouldn't be divorced from its original meanings despite the context" (which by the way I found a very poor argument) then I must say: that doesn't mean every insulting word or joke should be censored? I know there's a difference between a slur and a "normal" insulting word, but words like fuck, cunt, bitch (or even suicide jokes, as pointed by Tattletale) which are still "highly" offensive being freely used is a very contradicting point to this.
So, in my opinion, context is still stronger than the word itself.

anonimzwx also stated a good point, and it's the freedom there seems to be to do white people jokes, and this isn't something new, I noticed this when I was in the discord server (they weren't so common, but they existed), so basically: saying Nigger isn't allowed but joking on white people is? That clearly is the most double standards thing ever.
Layout made by MaxodeX
i'm of the opinion that everyone, on some level, deserves to be made fun of. learning to take a joke at your expense is a basic part of human interaction.

i don't consider it in the staff's jurisdiction to decide what topics are suitable for comedy. if someone is genuinely offended by a joke, they can express it and the userbase at large can threaten to ostracize them if deemed necessary. if they concede and agree not to revisit the subject, then nothing of value is lost and life can go on for all parties involved. if they become hostile and start to be toxic, then you have proper grounds for a ban or harsh reprimand from the staff. if they just leave, then...well, they probably would have left if they were banned for it.

the wider array of viewpoints and the input of people who interact with the offending individual regularly means that it can be determined easier if it was good-natured ribbing between friends, a well-intentioned attempt at humor that fell flat, or just being offensive for the sake of hi im 12 haha xd funys.

Originally posted by Shiny Ninetales
anonimzwx also stated a good point, and it's the freedom there seems to be to do white people jokes, and this isn't something new, I noticed this when I was in the discord server (they weren't so common, but they existed), so basically: saying Nigger isn't allowed but joking on white people is? That clearly is the most double standards thing ever.

white people are really good at taking things in stride, if you call someone a cracker, honky or gringo you can practically rely on them not caring
Originally posted by anonimwsx
i think that each word has a context. In my country for example, exists the word "Weon", Weon can be friend, asshole, a thing or anything basically and depends how you use it on a context if it is a slur or not, a simple word without context is basically nothing, in some contexts it can be very offensive or not, then depends. For that i think that ban specific words is an stupid idea.

Brazil is just the same - there's not a single word in Portuguese I can think of that's so widely frowned you cannot say it absolutely anywhere. The f-word equivalent is so common it's almost not a slur.
That said, I don't think we as foreigners are entitled to talk about the strength of words in the English language, as we don't live in environments English is spoken to know what it feels like to say or hear these words. There may be similar words in our place, but their historical roots are completely different. That's why we should be careful, and generally, take the word of those who do speak English natively.

Originally posted by MercuryPenny
i'm of the opinion that everyone, on some level, deserves to be made fun of. learning to take a joke at your expense is a basic part of human interaction.

i don't consider it in the staff's jurisdiction to decide what topics are suitable for comedy. if someone is genuinely offended by a joke, they can express it and the userbase at large can threaten to ostracize them if deemed necessary. if they concede and agree not to revisit the subject, then nothing of value is lost and life can go on for all parties involved. if they become hostile and start to be toxic, then you have proper grounds for a ban or harsh reprimand from the staff. if they just leave, then...well, they probably would have left if they were banned for it.

I agree with this very much.

Originally posted by Roberto zampari
GIEPHY

It's GIEPY, Roberto
Originally posted by Pinci
black people
dark skinned people you racist (jk)

@anonimzwx, you're right about words having different contexts. The same applies to words like 'dick', 'ass' or 'bitch' in English. 'Dick' is a real name, 'ass' is the different word for donkey and 'bitch' is a word to describe female dog. In my opinion, when you use the former as someone's real name, it's safe to write it capitalized when profanity is forbidden despite that connotation, though it's better to substitute the last two words for those with neutral meaning in the same situation so it's more obvious what you mean.

Speaking of what Roberto zampari - the one who broke the streak with our discussion - said, you can hack SMA2 some way, though I don't know when and whether there'll be an easier way to hack it if the current one is really difficult. I don't think that breaking limits on SNES will ever be likely, but maybe if you converted SMW ROM for a newer generation platform and hacking tools could work with it, the goal would be possible.

I think that insertion using GIEPY takes the same bytes that LM3 uses hence it's incompatible with it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Originally posted by Koopster
It's GIEPY, Roberto
I instantly got reminded of what one of my buds told me about certain Pokémons' names spelled wrong. The best way to tell you how the word should be spelled correctly is to use the correct spelling in a sentence. And some kids, even despite that, continue to spell the Pokémon's name wrong.

EDIT: Changed the username of the first quoted user. Terribly sorry, anonimzwx
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

^ Yes, this is a valid sentence.
Originally posted by Emerald Shell
Originally posted by anonimzwx
black people
dark skinned people you racist (jk)


wut, i did'nt say black people.

Originally posted by Shiny Ninetales
that doesn't mean every insulting word or joke should be censored? I know there's a difference between a slur and a "normal" insulting word, but words like fuck, cunt, bitch (or even suicide jokes, as pointed by Tattletale) which are still "highly" offensive being freely used is a very contradicting point to this.

There’s definitely still a difference from curse words too, though. Words like those have harsh definitions sure, but they don’t target specific groups while racial, homophobic, and transphobic slurs have very recent cultural histories behind them of marginalizing and essentially dehumanizing certain groups of people. By saying the usual curse words, you’re not making groups of people feel as if they’re less human than you or worth less. Sure they might sting a bit, but they lack that dehumanizing factor. If you want an example of this; nobody but the most uptight of people will even notice if you say words like the ones you listed in public. Sure you might get glances for just outright saying them, but that’s about it for the most part. Meanwhile if you try saying any actual slurs in public, you’re bound to offend and outright upset a lot of people.

I could go on and on about the much varying etymologies of these words and how their origins and usage today don’t line up with each other, but the point is that these words serve very different purposes and I don’t believe the comparison holds much weight. Admittedly, “bitch” is kinda the exception here with its negative connotations against women—and while it’s a rather complicated issue to get into—it’s had enough time in the sun to become more of a “general-purpose” insult (like dick, asshole, bastard, etc) culturally. Even if it’s still used against women by some, it’s lost a lot of its harshness and overall specificity over time. Other slurs however, have not had that time to change, or are still mainly used in their historically-objectionable nature.

Originally posted by Shiny Ninetales
saying the n-word isn't allowed but joking on white people is? That clearly is the most double moral thing ever.

There's a pretty big difference between saying a racial slur and making stereotypical jokes about race (even if the latter is also unwelcome here). If you were more implying about why jokes against white people are more widely accepted than jokes against black people for example, it's not really the topic of discussion here as far as I can see, but the best way I've heard that described is that white people are much less marginalized in Western Countries for the most part. In recent history, there really haven't been many situations there where white people have been treated as if they were worth less than others. It's more an issue of 'kicking down' than anything.

edit: also let me clarify that I would personally prefer that no racial jokes be made, but that's the argument I've heard at least.

Originally posted by Shiny Ninetales
or even suicide jokes, as pointed by Tattletale

Suicide jokes are also another thing entirely, and as I've already pointed above, I do think that we should start actively doing something against them.
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