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Improvements, Thoughts, and SMWCP2

Originally posted by S.N.N.
You don't. He specifically asks you not to.

umean


well then



fuck
Originally posted by HuFlungDu
Originally posted by phenolatukas
Secondly For SMWCP2, create a more involved and interesting plot with members from this site as characters.

Problem being that someone is bound to feel left out.


A lot of people weren't in the bar or anything. What if everyone voted on who they wanted to be a part of the plot or something? I'm saying this, and the chances of me being included are pretty slim.
I think the bar idea will likely be tossed next time. Even this time around, having either all of the users involved or none of the users involved would be the most fair.

And if the same amount of people are involved next time .. well ..
Well, I would definitely be glad to help with the use of three levels or so... in the next possible installment... :3

Lurker here. I've been playing SMWCP for a few days now, and I wanted to share my opinion. Note that unless written specifically, I am referring to version 1.5.

First of all, congratulations! This hack is fun and very entertaining! Personally I feel that this hack is better than New Super Mario Bros Wii, so that's a big accomplishment!

General feedback:
- The title screen surprised me and seems to represent what to expect from the game very well. My only gripe is that it is static.
- Very pretty overworld, although it's a bit sad that I can't pan over it like in the original game. I have a big complain though: levels that do not unlock anything do not count in the exit total when completed.
- There are continuity problems with how sub-levels are connected. For example, I didn't get why entering pipes you just exited led you to an entirely new area. Similarly, I didn't get why you would almost never start at the midpoint after dying, but at a completely new location.
- Levels in general are too long. If it takes more than 500 of time, it should be better to split it in multiple levels instead.
- I like difficulty so I enjoyed many challenges in this hack, but when combined with the long level problem I just described it is a complete game-breaker. For instance, I can't complete World 2. Considering that I can beat I Wanna Be The Guy and the dark levels of Super Meat Boy, that's a major problem. I could use savestates sure, but then the game would be boring for me.
- 1-ups are pretty much useless since you can save after completing any exit.
- With the exception of buying the space suit, gathering coins is pretty almost useless since they don't give any 1-up and can only be used at that expensive shop in Toad Town. 1000 coins for a 1-up? Really?? Plus, you can't even farm the coins, since you can't save when completing a level you've already beaten. Not getting 1-ups by gathering 100 coins also have the side-effect of seeing the Game Over screen quite often, which is not only frustrating, but also resets the star counter, which prevents you from accessing the bonus game, which I've never seen...
- Why is the feather such a rare item? It's what made the original SMW, along with Yoshi, so fun to play! Speaking of which, where are the Yoshis? I have yet to find one.
- Gorgeous music tracks! You guys really put a lot of effort into it and it shows! I especially like the invincibility music! My only gripe about the music is that it doesn't always match Mario's rhythm.
- There's some great art, but it is wildly inconsistent. For example, coins scattered around levels and generated by blue P-switches are different from coins generated by fireballs and gray P-switches. Also, sometimes the same object has different art in different levels, so you have to re-learn what that object does every time.
- I thought that cutscenes would be pretty lame since none of them can be canon, but they turned out to be parodies, so I enjoyed them quite a bit to my surprise! Good job!
- Inside jokes are a bad, bad, bad idea. Nobody outside of the current SMWC community gets them. If you guys want your hacks to be popular now and in the future, don't do that. Ever. That includes Reggie, since even though he is more well-known, most people don't, and nobody in the future will.
- There's still a lot of bugs and lack of polish overall. It currently feels like a beta version, not a final version.
- Not sure if this happens in the original SMW too, but when I pick up a mushroom while I'm big, it overwrites my item box, even when it contains a fire flower. Considering the quantity of mushrooms in this hack, it's a bit annoying.

Level-specific feedback:
- Mario's House: An empty room. Why is it even in the game?
- Toad Town: More like Ghost Town. Where are all the Toads? Why can't I open most of the doors? Why can't I talk to anybody in the bar? Why is nobody moving in the bar? Why is there a room with a single coin block and nothing else? The whole thing is just creepy! This level is obviously unfinished and should not have been included in the hack at all in its current form. As for the shop, as I said earlier, it's mostly useless since everything is so expensive.
- And So It Begins...: I hate this level, which is a very bad thing since it's the first one. First you jump out of that pipe and get straight into the action, even though you're still rusty with the controls. Second, the first goombas are actually an ambush, since you won't see that koopa behind the bush kicking its shell. Also, that koopa is red instead of blue, which is highly confusing for a SMW player. Not sure why clouds look like teeth either. Personally I don't have anything against blue berries, but I have something against putting different types of berries in the same bush. The Banzai Bill's artwork no longer matches his hitbox, and since it's not very detailed, I wouldn't have guessed it was supposed to be Reggie. Finally, that trampoline puzzle is out of place for a first level.
- Gramen Terra: There's a floor and some enemies once in a while, yawn. Easy does not mean simple, you know. Actually, the level was much more exciting with the falling spineys from the sky in v1.3, since you needed quick reflexes to dodge them while avoiding the casual enemies around. Also, I get a mushroom that I can't gather otherwise if I die after collecting the midpoint, which makes no sense since you're rewarded for failing.
- Big Baddie Cave: I like this level a lot! The ON/OFF switch part is great, and the alternate exit path is well designed. Playing through 2 very similar rooms is a bit tedious, but it's a minor issue. However, it has SILENT BILLS. REALLY? Also, podobos often passes through the ! blocks.
- Forgotten Forest: A fun level with lots of secrets. But finding them is completely pointless, since the level itself leads nowhere. Quite the missed opportunity there...
- Sunny River: An easy-yet-fun level, definitively overlooked. Nothing to say against this level. At this point though, I felt this hack was pretty repetitive, but that's because there is 3 levels using the same palette and music in the first 4 levels. The 1st part should have been used for Grammen Terra instead, it would have fixed several issues simultaneously.
- Treacherous Tower: One of my favorite levels! This is because the difficulty is high without being unfair, and the dragon coins hunt is fun and challenging! However, it has multiple flaws. First, the reward for getting the dragon coins is pretty lame considering you have to fight the boss immediately afterwards. Speaking of which, I like the boss idea, but because there's no clear pattern in his fireballs and some of them are quite fast, I feel that I can beat it because of luck rather than skill. Also, I didn't get why you had to stomp the 1st koopa shell 2 times to make it stop moving, and to get back up, the camera does not follow Mario when jumping on the spring so you must guess where the thwomp is above the screen. Plus, falling in the 2nd hole after pressing the P-switch usually leads to death because of the grinder, even when spinning. Finally, you don't get any egg-collecting cutscene after beating the level.
- Deep Dark Drains: I don't like this level because you're constantly going down but there's plenty of blind jumps which leads to cheap deaths. Also, it has static water and green lava, which isn't very natural. I also noticed a koopa paratroopa passing through a pipe.
- Craggy Heights: More like Crappy Heights! This is the worst level that I've played in this hack! What the hell is a Cragnon? Why do I die when stomping on a plant man? Why do my fireballs passes through enemies? Why are there bullies in this level shaped like angry brown elephants with lipstick? Why can't I fight them back? Why do goombas and bullet bills suddenly have different sprites? Did I mention how much I hate being pushed on or falling on a cactus?
- Hydro Hills: The 1st part is very fun, but the 2nd part is a bit tedious. Great use of Torpedo Teds, although they're a bit buggy because of the vertical camera movement. The P-switch part has some flaws though, since the hidden 1-up right below it leads to a cheap death by the penguin if you don't expect it and the gray coins path leads nowhere interesting. There's another cheap death when you restart the level after collecting the midpoint: when going left after jumping out of the hole, you get ambushed by the green koopa that falls from the sky. Finally, there's a side exit at the end of the 2nd part, but you exit from a pipe at the other side.
- Flooded Crater: This level has a lot of potential since it is one of the rare water levels that I had fun playing, but it is currently problematic. The sea urchins are very annoying. Right at the beginning, there's one slowly going up blocking the way, and you have to wait 27 units of time before being able to play the level. There's another one ambushing you near the end of the level while you're busy escaping the penguin while dodging the cheep cheeps. The sublevel in that pipe blocked by the SMB3 blocks is pretty useless and quite a long detour, and also contains a penguin/sea urchin ambush.
- P-Switch Peak: Not a bad level, it has some flaws. Considering how rare feathers are in this hack, the no-feather sign at the beginning is really a kick in the balls. Besides, it's useless since you can still bring a Yoshi and fly your way around the level after swallowing that blue shell, and doing so appears required for a secret. I noticed some cutoff when Mario jumps under a bush. There's also that mole that jumps over the yellow block and ambushes you by falling from it since it lands at the peak of its jump. The puzzle with the reset pipe is very well designed though.
- Weekaboo Manor: My favorite level of this hack so far! The atmosphere is excellent, I love the inverse boos, the ON/OFF switch puzzle is well designed, and in general the challenges are very entertaining. There's one big problem though: I can't beat it. The best I can do is to bring the blue P-switch to the 2nd ON/OFF switch, and then when attempting to pick up the P-switch after hitting the ON/OFF switch, pick up the blue block under me instead of the P-switch and fall to my death. I assume you have to use the P-switch instead of the blue blocks to hit this ON/OFF switch, but I couldn't try it since I've only reached that point 2 times in like 100 attempts. Other annoying things in this level are sprite limitation issues with the floor boos, the fact that you can't spin-jump on the floor boos, 2 very hard jumps, being required to scroll the camera manually to hit the 1st ON/OFF switch with a blue block from the other side of the ! blocks, and that trampoline that is not just strangely hard to pick up, but that can also block you if you drop in the ! hole, forcing a suicide.
- Football Canyon: The other level that I can't beat. The 1st part isn't so bad, except for the Charging Chuck puzzle since you have to manipulate its AI through a complex path that includes a hole too deep for the Chuck to escape from. Besides, I don't think you can get those 2 1-ups at all, only the key. The 1st part also contains a weird pit with 2 munchers and a trampoline stacked in the wall instead of a regular bottomless pit, which I had a hard time to escape without losing the key. But the real problem is the 2nd part. Right off the bat, you get a warning about avoiding skeletons, but that's actually not true since the problem isn't the skeleton, but the monster under it, so the 1st time I was there I avoided the midpoint to not fall on the skeleton, so I died by an invisible threat and I had to redo the entire level. After that the player is introduced to about a bajillion new types of enemies and floors simultaneously, along with completely new sprites for classic enemies, in a very difficult platforming section with lots of spikes. Maybe if I had been introduced to all of these things progressively in earlier levels it would be okay, but since it's all at the same time, it's too frustrating. I gave up playing further at this point. The fact that the mushroom in my item box transformed into a blood-thirsty rotten mushroom at this point made me wonder if I was about to fall into the world of Eversion or something.

Note that I took a bunch of screenshots just in case somebody wanted some clarification about what I just described.

Here is what I recommend for ASMWC2:
- Shorter levels.
- More debugging.
- More playtesting without savestates and rewinds.
- More attention to how different levels will blend together when played in order.

Thank you for reading! :)

The BIG List of Randomizers

Originally posted by SmashManiac
- Inside jokes are a bad, bad, bad idea. Nobody outside of the current SMWC community gets them. If you guys want your hacks to be popular now and in the future, don't do that. Ever. That includes Reggie, since even though he is more well-known, most people don't, and nobody in the future will.

- Craggy Heights: More like Crappy Heights! This is the worst level that I've played in this hack! What the hell is a Cragnon? Why do I die when stomping on a plant man? Why do my fireballs passes through enemies? Why are there bullies in this level shaped like angry brown elephants with lipstick? Why can't I fight them back? Why do goombas and bullet bills suddenly have different sprites? Did I mention how much I hate being pushed on or falling on a cactus?

Just decided to comment on these two notes here, the Japanese VIP hacks are very successful, yet have many references to 2chan.

Additionally, it seems you have never played Super Paper Mario, for this is where the Cragnons are from, so I assume this level was based on that.

World Community Grid: Thread | Team
 
To be honest that kinda was my least favourite level too, but everyone has their own tastes, I suppose. Can't blame them for that.
--------> Don't follow "Find Roy's Dignity", my hack. Because it's pretty outdated. <--------
Regarding the above string of posts: I guess references to other games, when one has not played the game in question, can be pretty confusing. However, I have nothing against these references; they can make for some good variety if done right.

--------------------

So yeah, I'm not really going to be posting for a while. Not that anyone cares.
Referencing other games, in terms of pure visual effect or what have you, is fine. But I think you're heading into problems if you expect the player to quickly 'get' gameplay changes or intricate puzzles or what have you based on the knowledge of other games.
The SPM inspried level actuly tells you about why not to stomp on the Cragons.

The "elaphants" are bully replacements which is ovious...once one hits you.

I liked the level. :P

Extras



I should have something witty to put here (even if it's just to update dated info), shouldn't I?

Advertising Space

Originally posted by SmashManiac
- Craggy Heights: More like Crappy Heights! This is the worst level that I've played in this hack! What the hell is a Cragnon? Why do I die when stomping on a plant man? Why do my fireballs passes through enemies? Why are there bullies in this level shaped like angry brown elephants with lipstick? Why can't I fight them back? Why do goombas and bullet bills suddenly have different sprites? Did I mention how much I hate being pushed on or falling on a cactus?


A stage is considered the "worst" in a hack because it has slightly different Asthetics to the ones that came before it.

...

You're not familiar with Super Paper Mario, are you? Besides, there's plenty of worse levels in this collab than that one.

Indeed, I have never played Super Paper Mario, so Craggy Heights didn't make any sense to me, including the background. I agree with raocow here: it's fine to include elements from other games, but it's a problem when assuming everybody has played them. It's probably why I'm stuck at Football Canyon too, since I didn't like Cave Story and did not beat it.

To clarify: my biggest complain about Craggy Heights is not how it clashed with everything else that I witnessed so far in the hack, but the fact that you can't fight back enemies combined with a lot of cacti everywhere. Even in other Mario games you can fight back bullies, but here I couldn't find any successful strategy except running away.

I haven't played the VIP hacks so I can't comment on them. However, I'm not saying that using inside jokes automatically makes a bad product, but that it diminishes its overall value to everybody else. It's exactly the same problem as using cultural references in a game, but then showing it to somebody from another region without localizing it beforehand.

The BIG List of Randomizers

I hate Craggy Heights with a passion, no offence to the person who made it, but it is really, really annoying.
Other then the fact that the Bullies are a bit too annoying for that early in the game, Craggy Heights is extremely easy.
Good fucking bye.
Originally posted by Volke
I hate Craggy Heights with a passion, no offence to the person who made it, but it is really, really annoying.


How is it annoying? It's a pretty simple level.
Originally posted by Roy
To be honest that kinda was my least favourite level too, but everyone has their own tastes, I suppose. Can't blame them for that.

CDPower made it. I made some of the GFX when I hadd litle graphical skill. She changed the palette though, and so I never grew fond of the new palette. The palette I made was a dusty desert one.
I think Craggy Heights is a quite enjoyable level, it's an easy difficult, nice paper mario style graphics and good level design. I don't see what is wrong with the level.



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Craggy Heights isn't bad at all. Only things I dislike about it are the fucked up interaction with the Cragnons (16x16 interaction for a 16x32 sprite?), their non-vulnerable appearance when jumped on -they DO hurt you though, at least you're being forewarned- and the cacti looking like scenery despite hurting you.
Originally posted by Weeabuu
Craggy Heights isn't bad at all. Only things I dislike about it are the fucked up interaction with the Cragnons (16x16 interaction for a 16x32 sprite?), their non-vulnerable appearance when jumped on -they DO hurt you though, at least you're being forewarned- and the cacti looking like scenery despite hurting you.

I agree. I also noticed these. Especially the Cacti.
You know, if SMWCP2 won't be using the VWF Dialogues Patch, it could use the new multiple message boxes per level patch Alcaro and I are working on. #w{=3}

Everyone should go to #radbusiness, my epic irc channel, RIGHT NOW!
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