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Kaizo thrash talk and motivation ???

So i have been lurking around, and often see creators saying they will never release a new hack.
Being part of that 'group', i kinda understand the situation, but only from my own experience..
Ive seen most of complaints seems to be the regarding the 'community' reaction towards certain creation. And i mean, not only from a bad reception of the hacks..
But assumptions like the creator blatantly stealing ideas from another creators.. or the creator has some weird fetish.. or the creator is a pedophile.. or the creator is trying to promote himself on someones back.. etc..
Assumptions/Accusations that transcends the hacks.
While having your creation criticized can work as a motivation to work harder and prove people wrong, or at least used as a 'compass' to know what to do next time; Those kind of personal attacks feels like really cheap shots.
Like i was talking to someone this days.. its not like a bully situation what follows.. its straight up 'cancel culture', and leaves no oportunity for any sort of defence or reconciliation.
Its that bad..

And i know, for the average community member it sometimes feel like a safe place that we will always have big streamers making hacks and be glorified for their creations..
or some other 'big' creators who we never actually see anywere, to just assume they are hidden in some tower building their next masterpiece.
But for the more exposed/vocal creators, those cheap shots can be very damaging.. And in this regard, non streamers (aka nobodys) are probably way more susceptible to attacks.
And i feel that sooner or later we might lose some of the brightest minds of the community.
No, i dont expect people to keep their motivation to create hacks forever..
Neither that newer people with amazing ideas will not appear to fill the gap..
Im just wondering if theres any way to avoid this? or is that just the nature of things?


Btw.. i know self awareness is very difficult, but im very conscious i sometimes can be hard on the critics.. and i hope i have never scared anyone away.. (and if i did, please, reach me)
But i stand for the right that every person has to have their own opinions and to eventually expose them, even if controversial.
This thread is mainly to try to understand (from other people povs.. and hopefully from the ones who feel affected) this whole situation..
Maybe theres nothing more to it, and things are just like that and deal with it.. Maybe this thread will never reach people who feel affected by that.. who knows!?
What are you hinting to, though? I haven't seen those assumptions anywhere or anything that falls under the so called "cancel culture" (I think that's a hilarious but stupid term). If there are, it's most likely from a minority that isn't the brightest around, and there's no way to "avoid" it. It happens naturally. (Also the title is kinda misleading, this thread doesn't talk about kaizo whatsoever)
Well.. im not giving names or whatever. I hope people who are, or know someone who, feel affected maybe can comment.. i know there are many people who feel that way (even if "minority").. and yes, some of the brightest around, regardless of what you think

thread title mentions kaizo because this its a recurring theme around kaizo creators.

I dont expect theres an answer to that. But i know theres many points of view which im curious to know..
?????????????????????
Very very very shortly, this drab, workaday world and everything in it will be changed forever! Follow us into the golden country, into the empire of the senseless!
I know what you are talking about and I have observed it in another ROM hacking community but I don't believe I have seen such a thing in this one. There have been two instances of content removals from, for lack of a better way of putting it, causing widespread shock:

- A hack that was removed because its creator faked terminal illness to get an e-celeb to play it and caused major backlash (non-Kaizo)
- A hack that was removed after approval because some of the imagery was reported by several users to staff (Kaizo)

These two situations are different from the cancel culture attacks I have seen elsewhere in that the first person did a horrible thing I would agree is worthy of personal scrutiny, and the second situation was kind of silent with no harassment that I am aware of against the author (correct me if I am wrong) but I am also unaware of exactly how good or awful this second hack was. The first hack mentioned was good, not mind-blowing but definitely interesting with some heart in it. It had merit and I would like to see it back despite the author's way of promoting it.

I agree with you that it is a horrible feeling when you are trying to make heartfelt content or accurate translations and get personally attacked for it because someone did not like it. What is proper of a critic is they address the content, not bully the creator (cancel culture is 100% mass bullying; it is destructive, predatory and traumatizing in that it is meant to both control and ruin others' lives every way they can: A digital lynch mob.) For these "improper critics" that try to stir up drama by attacking you, how deep do they go? Do they try to seek our your personal information like people on Twitter that hunt down preteens' locations and families over jibberish statements that include slurs not directed at anyone? I am aware of someone who is regarded as one of the most prolific and true translation hackers in all of ROM hacking being attacked extremely harshly and personally over a faithful translation hack over a directly-translated word he didn't even know some considered offensive, but not someone here. Not a drop of malice in him, yet he was unforgiven and hunted more even after the apology. That's sickening.

I think if a content creator at least lets people know to expect material that is heavy, mature, or controversial, they should be free to release that as long as there is no universally illegal or life-threatening material inside the hack e.g. explicit depictions of kids, spreading dox, or instructions from a certain non-food "Cookbook." and regardless of themes, it is wrong to assume that it is reflective of the views of the author. It can mean any number of things to the author, or nothing at all. Is it right, for example, to conclude anyone in Paramount Pictures has a thing for drowning people in freezing waters and tearing apart couples in love because they produced Titanic? Do they LOVE watching innocent people suffer? It's a ridiculous claim, but that's how far gone "cancellers" are. If you are not just uncomfortable with but can't at all handle the ship sinking and people falling in the water, either turn away or don't watch at all, but don't try to block the film or get Paramount shut down over it. It's their film; make your own if you don't like it. The same applies if other themes exist in other works that are either uncomfortable or non-PC: that is why we have content ratings and warnings in the real world. Likewise, websites that host user-submitted material will often warn you user content doesn't reflect the views of the site. I have seen some very perverse and disturbing fanfiction next to family-friendly fanfiction on the same site. Difference? Content disclaimers. If I clicked and was bothered, it was my own fault. I was not the target audience.

If you want to say anything of ROM hacking or game design is to be considered art, then artistic freedom is integral to the survival of the hobby. It is like making a book or a movie. A lot of these would-be attackers aren't ROM hackers, let alone from SMW Central, at all, but that is what is scary - this could be the friendliest place ever but the coyotes are right outside the chicken coop. The internet is not as good of as place as it used to be for publishing stuff.

I hope that content creators like you don't get held back in fear that your work will make you a target but at the same time, I empathize and share the feeling when it comes to releasing works. The only thing you and others can do is be brave against what is hopefully just a fad of zealous shut-in fanatics cyberstalking anyone they disagree with because they can't find their way out of their 9000 cats' droppings and this is all that makes them feel alive, and really just not having your personal information online for them to threaten you with. Block and delete their statements. These people win when they suppress others with fear, and they lose when they can't. Post your work because you dreamed it and worked hard to make it happen, post it for the people who will enjoy it and the people who helped you make it, and post it for constructive feedback so the next one might be even better or at least as good. Never give up. Do what you love.

Just look above you...
If it's something that can be stopped, then just try to stop it!
thanks for the detailed reply.. ill let it sink in for a moment

But let me say this thread is not about me specifically. I have my personal reasons to not want to hack anymore, and most isnt related to what i exposed in this thread.

My concern is ive seen at least 2 really talented creators of the kaizo community saying they will never upload another hack to smwc (they didnt really mentioned stopping creating). And i know a couple of others that said the same thing in the past.
I think this is a huge loss and should be taken as alert. People to assume it doesnt exist (mob attacks, cancel culture, etc) just because never seen are being naive.
Its a problem that exists, but i dont know if or how it could be avoided. But i think it should be talked about.


*btw.. doesnt matter how stupid one thinks the 'cancel culture' term is.. if it bothers you, just replace in your head with a term that to you makes sense.. bothering about terminology and disregarding the message is typical of the 'contemporary' shitty communication
I think you're kind of taking it a tad far thinking that just because 2 individuals even if popular say they won't submit their hacks here for one reason or another will stop other people from uploading their submissions. Honestly I don't even really get where you're coming from either besides knowing there's a bit of controversy on the hack difficulty rating which I can fully understand and staff is also aware of this, coming in here to vent frustrations without actually saying what the issue is IS an issue though. I don't fully understand if you're trying to talk about assumptions/accusations or something else since your OP talks about being making assumptions but then you kind of go in a different direction after what Counterfeit pointed out.
For myself I have only seen about 4 issues due to true facts arise from accusations which are the 2 Counterfeit stated and then 2 VLDC places being revoked due to predatory behavior, I just don't see the stealing/kink shaming/promoting on someone's back like you said, Is it possible to give any sort of evidence for this at all? Or are we ourselves suppose to just assume.
I think naro's talking about twitch streams
eg you open a twitch stream and read something bad
or hear something

what is safe?
i once opened a stream of a levelengine hack
the streamer said:
'I'm pretty sure Morsel is into S and M, you know, in real life'
i closed the stream and opened the vod
he really said it!
what is safe?

but that's not why i gave up hacking
i tried to make things recently, but i have no coherent ideas left
lockdown and quarantine and social upheaval has stolen my mojo

i wish i had that tower
i imagine it as tall and strong with embrasured windows to protect from slings and arrows and a parapet from where to pour boiling lead on the outrageous twitch people
that would be a good tower
I think everyone should get in agreement to just not go on twitch in the first place because it's always bad
Very very very shortly, this drab, workaday world and everything in it will be changed forever! Follow us into the golden country, into the empire of the senseless!
I think I see what you meant now (despite no fingers being pointed at here). Like, most if not all the time Twitch streamers will (in)directly make their audience be their echo chamber, naturally. That can't be avoided unless the streamer measures what he says or thinks and the audience follows suit as well (which I don't expect to happen soon... such is life). If there's any further scrutiny causing people to view us differently, I don't know, because no names were mentioned here, aside from the two aforementioned instances. Still though, it's terrible for people to bring others down whilst streaming, but that has no definite solution that works like a charm, just discussion and talk, I guess.
Morsel, I am sorry that happened to you. That must have been really embarrassing since that is a very dirty and deeply personal assumption. That's pretty much middle school gossip. If that's the way people get their kicks or what people are interested in hearing, they are boring people. I think 1337doom has the right idea, or at least that streamer isn't worth your energy... and don't be intimidated by "e-fame" as fame and money ultimately don't make one a better man. If this is all one has, at the end of the day, they are still going to feel incomplete and unfulfilled because they're just vices, no better than cigarettes. You, on the other hand, I can see you are more empathetic, quite self-aware, realistic, and I get the impression you know where you want to go in life, what you want to experience.

The content you put out I found was really entertaining so thank you for sharing your creativity! Whether you find that spark again or not, what I could experience of that side of you was something I couldn't forget.

Just look above you...
If it's something that can be stopped, then just try to stop it!
Im not to blame streamers. To some, streams is their way to earn a living and i can just assume they take it seriously and do their best to not feed the trolls or any kind of predatory behavior.
I cannot blame streamers for their reactions. In the end they are just 'normal' people with 'normal' reactions. Which unfortunately are being broadcasted live.
But we cannot blame the creators for having the curiosity to watch their creations being streamed and feeling vulnerable to comments.
And like ive said, one thing is having the hack criticized.. other is criticize the creator and start formulating every kind of theory about how weirdo he/she is. Or even blacklisting the creators for a bad 1st hack or whatever other reason.

i know..
not every creator has the same amount of talent
not every creator has the same work ethic
not every creator cares..

Tho its sad to see people just giving up because of generalized parrotry.


and maybe this forum isnt even the right place to talk about it, since it doesnt happen here (at least to some extent).. This is the only public space i know to talk about it

And im sorry if im not being totally clear. Even tho Morsel once said he feels immune to comments, he as a large target most likely can understand where im coming from.. So i would prefer if other creators could manifest themselves first, instead of me pointing fingers
Originally posted by NaroGugul
Im not to blame streamers. To some, streams is their way to earn a living and i can just assume they take it seriously and do their best to not feed the trolls or any kind of predatory behavior.
I cannot blame streamers for their reactions. In the end they are just 'normal' people with 'normal' reactions. Which unfortunately are being broadcasted live.

Which is why I said the streamers unintentionally influence what their audience plops out or not. After all, they are just normal human beings, like us.
I don't think this is just an issue with Kaizo hacks you only really see it with Kaizo hack currently because that is the type of hack that's currently the most popular. If you had just harder more standard hacks being the popular type you'd still run into comments like these. This also happens in the indie realm where people make games send them to streamers or streamers find them and play them making comments on the creators themselves and not just the game it's just a toxicity found in some people who probably shouldn't be as popular as they are however that toxicity is what drives some people to watch them.
Originally posted by Ninja Boy
I don't think this is just an issue with Kaizo hacks you only really see it with Kaizo hack currently because that is the type of hack that's currently the most popular. If you had just harder more standard hacks being the popular type you'd still run into comments like these. This also happens in the indie realm where people make games send them to streamers or streamers find them and play them making comments on the creators themselves and not just the game it's just a toxicity found in some people who probably shouldn't be as popular as they are however that toxicity is what drives some people to watch them.

Case point: raocow. It's pretty often that people call someone's level bad just because rao raged at it (and I don't mean GAY SHT from YUMP but genuinely good level). He creates Let's Plays and plays regular hacks, almost never Kaizo levels.
In my own experience, I was overwhelmed during the creating process of my previous hack, in which my mental health was criticized about "reasons". I can accept some people don't like my levels and ideas, and critize them, but when the thrash talk comes out (from whatsoever corners) and it get rid of all your motivation by comments like that, is something hard to deal with it. I know, this is a hobby, this is for fun. I keep that.

The Twitch thing is something appart which complements in a bad way all the situation, in general.
(sorry if I'm replying late this topic, don't know if is still open).
People don't try to "cancel" kaizo hackers. People just are exhausted of randos who don't even play kaizo constantly shitting on people's hacks and attacking the authors. And to a lesser extent, claiming everything is a ripoff of [insert popular kaizo hack made by a streamer or maybe Morsel here, even if the hack being played is by Morsel].

Literally no one is trying to claim people are pedophiles or have weird fetishes like?????????????????
HackPortsASM"Uploader"

the funny thing is im usually on the bully/toxic side of things


But i guess this kind of topic is like talking about some disease like cancer or aids or whatever.. you only realize how serious it is (or even that it exists) when you, or someone who you care about, is 'infected' by it
I believe peoples experiences, but this is just vagueposting. I still can't get a handle on what's even being talked about.
Very very very shortly, this drab, workaday world and everything in it will be changed forever! Follow us into the golden country, into the empire of the senseless!
One other big issue imo: like Naro said, when streamers are having reactions to what they're playing (which obviously is totally fine), the problem is when the chat thinks that a streamer's frustration at a game is legitimate anger towards the creator. Unfortunately I don't have a solution to that issue, but I at least try to keep my emotions in check because words can do some serious damage. It's just super shitty that some folks judge a person's character because of the levels they make. Like wtf how does that even qualify as logical. I've seen chat messages threatening to slash a creator's car tires because a streamer was taking a long time on a super hard level - stupid comments like that.