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I'm deeply disappointed in the staff
Forum Index - Valley of Bowser - Site Questions & Feedback - I'm deeply disappointed in the staff
Pages: « 1 2 3 » Link - Thread Closed
I honestly feel kinda betrayed right now. This community has been my home for so many years and for the most part I've always felt pretty accepted here as I've grown into a more mature adult. But today I was gaslit by a few members of the staff over a situation involving me and another user, and I think a discussion should be had about how staff handle situations like this.

For those who aren't aware, earlier today I made a post in #reality-corner about how I've been on hormones for two months and that I never felt better. Another user (who I'm not gonna name, if you wanna know go look) respectfully asked about what hormones I take so I responded. They then proceeded to make comments about me growing boobs and saying "big mommy milkers." This is extremely disrespectful and creepy, as they were sexualizing me when I didn't ask to be, and me talking about feeling happy doesn't really seem like an appropriate time to sexualize me? I didn't say anything about it at first because I was deeply uncomfortable and in situation like this I tend to default to being quiet. This user then asked if they could screencap the conversation and share it to a subreddit (which I later found out was a subreddit about "Trans people making fun of themselves"). Deeply embarrassed and frustrated, I left the server.

Upon learning what subreddit this user was going to post to, I re-entered the server to defend myself and call out how gross that was. I'll admit that I could have left some stuff out of my rant (namely telling them to go fuck themselves and calling the staff soft pussies for downplaying the situation), but honestly I really don't see anything wrong with calling that behavior out in the manner that I did. I expected a little pushback for aggressively calling it out, but what I didn't expect was to be met with members of the staff telling me I'm being dramatic and that the user WASN'T being transphobic.

First of all, when someone opens up about their journey with hormones and your immediate response is to make sexual comments about their body, that is transphobic. It perpetuates the idea that trans people are objects and not people, it perpetuates the idea that our humanity doesn't deserve to be acknowledged. Its gross, its wrong, and the only way to get people to change is to call it out for what it is. This type of behavior will never stop unless people are made to feel ashamed for making such comments, because they should be.

But more importantly I'm shocked that the staff claim to be trying to create a safe environment for LGBT users while simultaneously not listening to them (me in this case) when they explain why something is transphobic. Someone even stood up for me and called the behavior bigoted and one of the staff responded with "bigoted" in quotes. That's pretty callous if you ask me, and doesn't reflect a team that cares about whether or not their users feel safe if it clashes with THEIR views and opinions. Even if not every staff member feels that way, refusing to call it out reflects on YOU.

Being soft on stuff like this just makes people not feel safe, including me. I will not be rejoining the SMWC server, and honestly if this is how y'all feel I'm probably gonna make myself scarce from this place. I've moved on to other communities that foster a much safer and accepting community than this, I really only came back because of the requests forum opening and wanting to have some fun but I don't see any reason to engage with a community that doesn't actually support ALL of their users.

EDIT: Worth noting the staff are also putting words in my mouth. I don't hate the entire community, but if a staff member gaslights me and the others say nothing, then that kinda has some not so good implications about the other staff.


Maybe instead of pointing the finger at me for being "dramatic" you should examine your biases.

EDIT 2: This is just a way for the staff to silence users calling out problematic behavior on the part of the staff. I'm not doing this for attention, I'm genuinely frustrated and think the community deserves to be privy to this kind of insensitivity.


I never thought I'd unironically say I'm leaving this place forever but you people really showed your asses today. Its been fun the past 7+ years but all this situation has shown me is that I've outgrown this place. I've already dealt with users forcing their ignorant beliefs on me when I didn't ask and the staff did nothing during those situations either, so y'all have made it clear where you stand.

And if you think me not wanting to be part of a community that gaslights people for getting upset about being being creepy and transphobic is dramatic, it says a lot more about you then it does about me. Check your ignorance.
I stand with you Samantha. This is unacceptable. I was happy to return a few months ago because I thought you guys had genuinely improved your stance on this kind of stuff. I was mistaken. What a joke this is becoming.

Or it actually was for the past 4 years but I sheepishly came back every time because 'oh, it's my childhood'. No more. This is the end of the line.
Originally posted by Samantha
EDIT 2: This is just a way for the staff to silence users calling out problematic behavior on the part of the staff. I'm not doing this for attention, I'm genuinely frustrated and think the community deserves to be privy to this kind of insensitivity.

Alright, so I said everything I really wanted to about this in the Discord server and I don't care to repeat it here (long story short, I'm on Samantha's side), but I will say this much: look Danny, I argued with you and Maxodex about this for around an hour and you waited until only a few minutes after I said I was leaving the conversation to say this? I genuinely find that insulting. Not only are you implying that I brought up my concerns just for attention or to start drama by calling it "making a public display", but this has the same vibe as when teachers make "announcements" to the whole class when you can clearly tell they're mainly talking directly to you.

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I'm on Samantha's side tbh, shit Ill go on to say that I feel as if there was some bias going on about me, while yes i've made my fair share of mistakes, I feel as if most of it is just sheer hate.
Originally posted by Sping bot
I'm on Samantha's side tbh, shit Ill go on to say that I feel as if there was some bias going on about me, while yes i've made my fair share of mistakes, I feel as if most of it is just sheer hate.

I think sometimes the things you say come out of nowhere but tbh the reality corner channel is always exhausting to read, its like there's bickering every other day. I had the channel muted for the longest time because it seemed like certain users (some being discord mods) were always hopping on the opportunity to come at people for being too dramatic or something.

I appreciate your guys' support btw #smrpg{<3}
I perfectly understand your anger and disappointment about the staff, but I feel like one important detail was missed: the user was met with an A3 warning. The moderators weren't gaslighting you thinking the user was perfectly fine, they were telling you to not attack the user further because they already did what they should. In addition, the user came out and apologized, this doesen't justify their actions but it shows that this community is ready to change.

I want a community in support of lgbtq+ people, but also free of useless hatred towards one another. While I understand and support you, this thread feels to me like an attempt to vilify the mod team, which I find highly unfair having read the whole discussion.

I would like to edit my statement saying that your initial complaint wasn't what I deemed as "useless hate": sexualization is horrible and you had all the right to call the user out.
What I have a problem with is thinking the moderators are against you for enforcing the "keep it civil" rule. In this case, I don't agree it was the best course of action from the mods, but assuming they were ill-intentioned is a bit unfair

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cheieldissì 2021
Originally posted by NerDose
I perfectly understand your anger and disappointment about the staff, but I feel like one important detail was missed: the user was met with an A3 warning. The moderators weren't gaslighting you thinking the user was perfectly fine, they were telling you to not attack the user further because they already did what they should. In addition, the user came out and apologized, this doesen't justify their actions but it shows that this community is ready to change.

I want a community in support of lgbtq+ people, but also free of useless hatred towards one another. While I understand and support you, this thread feels to me like an attempt to vilify the mod team, which I find highly unfair having read the whole discussion.

This is a bad take and I'll tell you why.

First of all, the problem isn't that the user was given a warning, the problem is that me calling out his gross comments shouldn't have been deemed dramatic or extra. Like I said, could have left a few choice words out, but me calling out the user for SEXUALIZING ME isn't unreasonably.

Secondly, I'm really sick of this "I'm tired of the useless hate" argument from people who claim to be allies but don't actually listen to the LGBT people they claim to support. Its not useless hate, I calling out someone dehumanizing me in a conversation where I'm talking about finally starting to feel content with my life. If you were talking about finally getting over your insecurities as a man (not saying you have insecurities, this is a hypothetical) and then someone reduces you to your penis size, you'd probably be pretty fucking frustrated. I'll say it again, people only stop making gross comments like that when they feel its wrong, that's why I called it out in the way that I did. Its not your place to tell me or any other LGBT people how we should react to being sexualized, dehumanized, or treated poorly in any other way. If you actually cared about LGBT people, you would listen to what we have to say instead of talking over us and stating your own uninformed opinions.
Originally posted by Samantha

I think sometimes the things you say come out of nowhere but tbh the reality corner channel is always exhausting to read, its like there's bickering every other day. I had the channel muted for the longest time because it seemed like certain users (some being discord mods) were always hopping on the opportunity to come at people for being too dramatic or something.

I appreciate your guys' support btw #smrpg{<3}


Well that's what im trying to say
Originally posted by Samantha
Secondly, I'm really sick of this "I'm tired of the useless hate" argument from people who claim to be allies but don't actually listen to the LGBT people they claim to support. Its not useless hate, I calling out someone dehumanizing me in a conversation where I'm talking about finally starting to feel content with my life.


For this part I'm terribly sorry, i fundamentally misunderstood the gravity of the situation. I'm definitely biased in this case as I've never been met with positivity when showing anger, even reasonably so.

That said, i'm still in favor of communicating to the mods or the user in question instead of leaving the community.
My position is ultimately of compromise and not of favoring the mods

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I suck at ASM and AMK

My Youtube

cheieldissì 2021
Originally posted by NerDose
For this part I'm terribly sorry, i fundamentally misunderstood the gravity of the situation. I'm definitely biased in this case as I've never been met with positivity when showing anger, even reasonably so.

That said, i'm still in favor of communicating to the mods or the user in question instead of leaving the community.
My position is ultimately of compromise and not of favoring the mods

Its not really about the gravity of the situation, its more about listening to LGBT people when they talk about feeling mistreated instead of inserting your own views or trying to justify mistakes.

I'm choosing to leave the community because I already have very little interest in SMW hacking so it'd be silly for me to stick around in a community where I don't feel understood (and honestly I've felt misunderstood here for a while, I just denied it to myself because certain prominent users and mods are good at gaslighting). If I was still passionate I'd just do my thing in the background but honestly I'm moving on to bigger and better things.

Before any of you hit me with "WeLL iF yOu'Re LeAviNg wHy ArE yOu StiLL rEsPoNdiNg To PoStS?" its because this is an ongoing discussion and I want to get people talking about this. I'll peace out when the discussion is over.
Well, I mean...
To be fair, ModernKiwi realized his actions are wrong after you leave, and feeling guilty hard about that. And he really wants apologize to you irc.

Don't get me wrong, as I also think kiwi's actions were rather questionable for that situation. (No offence to you, kiwi!)
And this kind of stuff should never happen again whatsoever.

But calling him entirely gross is also absolutely wrong for me, tbh.
Cause I don't really find he did that on purpose, especially after he realized he did something really bad to you in unintentional way. (He posted about that a bit, after i linked this thread on channel.) (And this is also absolutely not depending him either, to be clearly.)

I think you can at least try to talking with him and staffs instead leave, as NerDose said. #tb{''}
Originally posted by crm0622
Well, I mean...
To be fair, ModernKiwi realized his actions are wrong after you leave, and feeling guilty hard about that. And he really wants apologize to you irc.

Don't get me wrong, as I also think kiwi's actions were rather questionable for that situation. (No offence to you, kiwi!)
And this kind of stuff should never happen again whatsoever.

But calling him entirely gross is also absolutely wrong for me, tbh.
Cause I don't really find he did that on purpose, especially after he realized he did something really bad to you in unintentional way. (He posted about that a bit, after i linked this thread on channel.)

I think you can at least try to talking with him and staffs instead leave, as NerDose said. #tb{''}

This is victim blaming. Its lame, don't do it.
Ok In my book this is something that can't really be fixed with a simple apology, it's best if we let Sam go her own way and stop saying all this bullshit to try and make her look bad, she has every right to be pissed after all that's happened.
Originally posted by Samantha
Its not really about the gravity of the situation, its more about listening to LGBT people when they talk about feeling mistreated instead of inserting your own views or trying to justify mistakes.


If that's the case, I'm sorry. I wasn't implying your complaint wasn't justified or unreasonable in any way, nor are the mods.

From what I've read, the request to tone down was because even after the user faced the consequences, the callout was unnecessary, justified yes, but unnecessary, it created a chaotic environment for the server. I'm not sure if I agree with them but I see where they're coming from, they would've acted the same in any other situation.

those are my last words on the subject, ultimately it's sad to see you go. That's partly the reason I wanted to put both sides on an equal playing field, even if it's unfair in this case. I hope you live your best life from now on, goodbye

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I suck at ASM and AMK

My Youtube

cheieldissì 2021
Originally posted by Sping bot
Ok In my book this is something that can't really be fixed with a simple apology, it's best if we let Sam go her own way and stop saying all this bullshit to try and make her look bad, she has every right to be pissed after all that's happened.

If the staff genuinely want to "fix" this, allow people to defend themselves. When someone is being blatantly gross or creepy, don't feel required to be polite, call it out. You don't have to be insulting but stop being so passive.

Even if the staff did do this, which I don't think they will, it wouldn't affect my decision to leave. My departure from SMWC has honestly been a long time coming and this was just the final straw for me.

Originally posted by NerDose
From what I've read, the request to tone down was because even after the user faced the consequences, the callout was unnecessary, justified yes, but unnecessary, it created a chaotic environment for the server. In this case, it's not at all clear if the mods' actions were justified but I see where they're coming from, they would've acted the same in any other situation.

You're apologizing but you're continuing to place blame on me in this situation. Is it justified or unnecessary? Pick one.
Originally posted by Samantha
Originally posted by crm0622
Well, I mean...
To be fair, ModernKiwi realized his actions are wrong after you leave, and feeling guilty hard about that. And he really wants apologize to you irc.

Don't get me wrong, as I also think kiwi's actions were rather questionable for that situation. (No offence to you, kiwi!)
And this kind of stuff should never happen again whatsoever.

But calling him entirely gross is also absolutely wrong for me, tbh.
Cause I don't really find he did that on purpose, especially after he realized he did something really bad to you in unintentional way. (He posted about that a bit, after i linked this thread on channel.)

I think you can at least try to talking with him and staffs instead leave, as NerDose said. #tb{''}

This is victim blaming. Its lame, don't do it.


...
Not the offence, but do you entirely read all of my post clearly?
I don't even blame to you all about this at all, nor depending kiwi either.
Just thought I think there's at least more than one misunderstanding going on here...

(Man, kiwi really screwed up bad somehow, consider all of this... #tb{:(})

Originally posted by Samantha
Originally posted by crm0622
Well, I mean...
To be fair, ModernKiwi realized his actions are wrong after you leave, and feeling guilty hard about that. And he really wants apologize to you irc.

Don't get me wrong, as I also think kiwi's actions were rather questionable for that situation. (No offence to you, kiwi!)
And this kind of stuff should never happen again whatsoever.

But calling him entirely gross is also absolutely wrong for me, tbh.
Cause I don't really find he did that on purpose, especially after he realized he did something really bad to you in unintentional way. (He posted about that a bit, after i linked this thread on channel.)

I think you can at least try to talking with him and staffs instead leave, as NerDose said. #tb{''}

This is victim blaming. Its lame, don't do it.


I agree with you, victim blaming absolutely is lame, but the problem is that what crm is doing isn't victim blaming, he's just saying his opinion on the situation.

I don't doubt that you're angry at ModernKiwi, but he has learned from this whole ordeal and even said that he sincerely regrets his actions, it's not cool to hold grudges.
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Hello Samantha. I read the chat and see that you were in a conversation that quickly turned uncomfortable for reasons I don't blame you for.

They were denounced for it, and you went on to cuss them out as well.

How would you like things to have been handled differently?



In my opinion it's not even the fact this all happened, which is terrible enough as is but has some room for discussion, but the idea that misbehavior among staff has been happening for years on end across various subjects.

And even if there was a period where they yeeted out some particularly rotten apples, we're still leaving room for this to happen somehow? Surely it could've been treated with less gaslighty behavior than this?
In summary:

1. Kiwi says something that Samantha interprets as sexual harassment
2. Samantha, understandably, briefly lashes out at Kiwi for comments (The key word there is briefly; a few people will point out to me that some of Samantha's comments happened hours after the initial incident, but I'll remind you that this was only after she found out what the subreddit actually was. It isn't as if Samantha was just trying to keep the issue going forever without dropping it)
3. Because of Samantha's lashing out, a handful of staff members give her a slap on the wrist for making "unnecessary" comments
4. In response to staff warnings, Samantha starts defending herself much further, which leads to the issue becoming a much huger problem and eventually this thread happens.


Point 1 started the incident. The way I see it, point 2 was a pretty natural response to the incident.

Point 3 is where things started to get really silly, in my opinion. If it wasn't for the staff stepping in and behaving condescendingly towards Samantha, this situation wouldn't have escalated anywhere near to where it is now.


Why was it so crucial for the staff to shut her down, exactly? It's extremely worth noting that no other conversations were ongoing in #reality-corner at the time, so it's not as if Samantha's comments were stepping on the toes of another discussion. I don't mean to derail the thread, but this sort of shit happens all the time on SMWC's Discord; staff members stepping in and trying to shut people down even when no one else is complaining. I get that you guys want to have an air of "professionalism" here, but there's a difference between "behaving professionally" and outright ignoring a human being's emotions because you see it as an opportunity to exercise your authority by saying "you just broke rule A3M4D7"
As a side note, God do I hate the rule IDs. If someone says something derogatory, just call them out on it and tell them "you said something derogatory". Telling them what they did wrong by saying "rule A6" or whatever and forcing them to look up what that means is pointless and pedantic. Seriously, just act like human beings, please.


If SMWC was a company or corporation, then maybe the staff reaction to Samantha's actions would make sense or be justified, because in that case there *would* be a need to minimalize instances of drama for internal reasons. But it's not. SMWC isn't a company. It's a hobby website that people register on to have fun, and *escape* from the bureaucracy that plagues their everyday lives otherwise.



It's also worth noting that, thanks to Samantha's original outburst, Kiwi said he now understands that what he said was wrong, and promised to not say anything like that ever again. In other words, Samantha's comments actually did some good, rather than the harm that several people are implying they did. If anything, I would say that the WORST thing Samantha did was when she initially tried to "laugh off" Kiwi's comments, because in that case Kiwi might not have learned how what he did was wrong, and how much his comments affected her.






I will say one thing to play the devil's advocate though: I don't think that crm's post was necessarily victim-blaming, personally. He didn't say that Samantha brought the comments on herself, he was just pointing out that Kiwi has felt pretty bad about this whole thing, and said he would learn from it. I don't really see how that's relevant to the situation at hand, but worth mentioning nonetheless.

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