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An update on SMWCP2 (Serious)
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - An update on SMWCP2 (Serious)
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Hey all, this is Falconpunch. Today I've got a serious announcement regarding the project.

It has been a little over 10 years since the start of the project. We had a lot of ideas and ambition going into this project, and I was around to see it grow especially since I was a kid.

Now, to cut all of the bullshit and get right to the point... We have a problem. All that ambition seems to have gotten us in a bit of trouble.

As it stands, aside from a missing couple of bosses (Madame Mau, Hindenbird, and the two final bosses to be exact), some levels (which I claimed but lost the motivation to work on temporarily) and music reworks (like Tapeworm's desert theme revisions) and a whole bunch bug fixes, the core part of game is done. But you knew that already, didn't you? I mean, we've been saying that for years now.

Unfortunately, that's exactly the problem. As the years go on, the hack itself get more and more "outdated" by today's standards. Everyone wants to come in and update these new-fangled graphics, and redo this level, update this music, and so on. The problem with this is with the work that has been done and the work that was supposed to be done, are kinda counteracting each other. We are stuck in this infinite loop where stuff is getting done, but also not getting done. People come in, want to help out, then disappear and now we are further behind than we were before.

The biggest disappearance of all however, was Blind Devil's resignation from the project. He was doing great, and despite his depression and his rough life, he still wanted to make the dream of the new and improved SMWCP2 a reality after seeing how much of a mess it was back then. Unfortunately, his departure from SMWCentral and the head project manager was the biggest blow of all to the project and any hope it has for its new, polished features we promised.

10 years for a hack to be in limbo like this is ridiculous and embarrassing for the site. Thankfully, the project isn't doomed to failure like SMWC Island is, what with Raidenthequick leaving the site/project and deleting the branch on GitHub, but we won't be able to add all of the features we had hoped to add in the finished project, as I've said.

After a good and long discussion in our Discord channel, we've all had enough. From this point on, we'll be making the following changes to our goals (and the to-do list) for the project:

1: We are no longer accepting any "new" ideas to be included in this hack. We are no longer creating new music, levels or Graphics unless it is game-breaking as it is. If it is too broken, it is getting replaced with something else or being completely removed. We won't have to 100% complete the level and its aesthetics or music, as long as it works and is suitable enough to work, or if people actively wish to revise it.

2: Most of the ASM-related stuff will have to be cut. Other than some of the beginning stuff that is already inserted like the intro, cutscenes are being cut out. But not to worry, we will keep the script of these cutscenes available when you download the hack file, kept in a Rich Text Document file. Any bosses still in the planning phase or that take too long to come out (yes that means the Dreamer) are not happening. The only one we are now focusing on is the final boss, and I believe we have an upcoming plan for that. And of course, the Hub and its new features won't be happening either. We hate that we have to do this, but we can't keep promising these new features if nobody is willing to deliver on them.

3: The Todo list is updated to focus on what needs being done the most. You can check out the new todo list in the thread here.

There has been a lot of people that have had their hands in the project, and we can't just sit by and continue to let all of this hard work fizzle out. Lightvayne has even said it himself that he regrets not taking this action earlier. We hate that we have to resort to cutting out features, graphics, and even levels entirely, but...we're struggling for better solutions.

tl;dr: We will be beta testing this hack to the fullest as a final version and removing anything that is "game breaking" so we can finally release this as a proper and fully playable hack, minus some of the fancy-schmancy stuff that has been holding us back for so long.

If at some point down the line someones wants to implement the missing content and/or change stuff in the future, they can pick it up and work on it on their own (much like SMWCP1.5). But as of now, we just want to get the project out so we can consider it done, and have it stop collecting dust (especially after Blind Devil's departure).

Thank you, and have a nice day.
Thank you all very much for your continued work on this.

I really appreciate that this hasn't been given up on, the start of this project reflects one of my favourite times on this site and in this community and I have been holding off on playing it until the project has been officially considered to be over.

I wish you the best of luck in finishing this. Do whatever you can at this point to get this project finished.
Do whatever you (plural) can to get the ball rolling as soon as possible. Your persistent work on it is amazing, and your decision to want it released shortly is nothing but fair. Thank you.
Originally posted by Falconpunch
As the years go on, the hack itself get more and more "outdated" by today's standards. Everyone wants to come in and update these new-fangled graphics, and redo this level, update this music, and so on. The problem with this is with the work that has been done and the work that was supposed to be done, are kinda counteracting each other. We are stuck in this infinite loop where stuff is getting done, but also not getting done.

Outdated shmoutdated.
The to-do list should serve as a wake-up call for everyone.

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Legacy custom music

While it's of course unfortunate that the hack won't be able to do everything that was once planned, I think this is ultimately the right decision. At some point, you just have to face reality and make unpleasant decisions. It's better for the hack to release in a stripped-down form than for the hack to never release at all. And who knows, maybe releasing the hack will indeed lead to some people getting a new interest in it and deciding to polish up some of its details.

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Feel free to visit my website/blog - it's updated rarely, but it looks pretty cool!
Good. "Modern standards" is a BS concept anyway, a work cannot be "outdated". The reason human beings make things is to make them, not to reach a platonic ideal of quality.

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Very very very shortly, this drab, workaday world and everything in it will be changed forever! Follow us into the golden country, into the empire of the senseless!
Haven't posted here in a very long time, but have still followed this project off and on.

This is a decision that should have been made long, long ago (like, probably at the end of Lightvayne's tenure). I've never understood the idea to "keep up with modern hacking standards" because modern hacking standards are a constantly evolving thing on their own. Every time it seemed like a new leader jumped on board and a sudden push to finish this hack once and for all seemed to ultimately devolve into "must modernize all music/graphics/level design...again". I recall making this same argument in the past and being waved off as naive out of what seemed to be a fear of releasing something that appeared "dated". So what?

SMWCP2 is/was a hack of 2011-2014 ('15?) and should have remained as such. If the community wanted a community hack representing modern hacking standards post-2015 then something new should have been created instead of attempting to add a new coat of wax to this every couple of years.

I genuinely hope Falconpunch keeps his word here and this thing is released once and for all and we don't see someone else come along and suddenly throw this thing back into development limbo for another decade.

I'm curious how many people who were initially involved with this project are even around anymore. Though, what I'm even more curious about, and I'm serious, is how much new stuff has been added to this hack since the end of Lightvayne's time? Not talking revamped stuff (music/graphics/level tweaks), but stuff that was originally desired, but never made or finished. And I'm not trying to diminish any of the work that's been done since then, but I'm curious if the extra five or six years really brought anything substantial to the table that wasn't there to begin with. There may be tons, and I just don't know, so that's why I'm asking.

Anyway, hats off to Falconpunch for finally making the tough decision and hopefully seeing this thing home.
Good to see you, Milk.

I am very happy to see this thread and this decision made. It seems I am not alone in thinking the constant redoing of work caused more harm than good. Going forward, anything on the to-do list that isn't meeting certain landmarks in a timely manner should be re-evaluated, especially in the ASM department. I think at this point, whatever it takes to get it working is the only priority, even if the decisions have to be made to axe "almost complete" assets, since it seems like that has been the lingering poison that has halted the pulse of the project. Looking over the to-do list, it looks like most of these thoughts have been addressed, and I agree with the designations on content that is first to the chopping block, for the most part. If it comes right down to it, most assets can be swapped out and dressed up with something readily available much faster than anything could be created, even if it isn't optimal.

I definitely look forward to seeing the final release of the project.
Yeah, I am (and always have been) with Milk/Vic/1337doom on this. I recall playing one of the base ROMs from early 2014, and even then I recognized that the hack overall had a very distinct 2011-2013 style to it, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the fact that the hack is/was a product of its time. Sure, I guess that might cause the hack to feel somewhat outdated in some ways, but who cares? It's still an incredibly unique hack with some fantastic levels, and other communities would never be able to tell the difference anyway. Updating some of the resources to newer standards can only serve to make the hack feel stylistically inconsistent within itself (unless we're talking about a total rebuild from the ground-up, but at that point you might as well just start a new project). I played the latest base ROM a few months ago, and while a lot of the music and GFX definitely felt more "polished" in some sense, I couldn't help but feel that it had lost a lot of its charm that it originally had gotten from its quirks and simplicities.

All of this is something I've pointed out multiple times over the past few years, but I've always been met with condescension from the few people working on the project. Ah well.

Needless to say, I'm glad that it's finally come to this decision. I've been looking forward to playing the finished product for a long time now, and I hope that this turn of events finally brings SMWCP2 to its finish line. Once we have this (along with SMWCI) out of the way, hopefully the community can consider focusing on a possible new collab project in the future. I do know of one that's currently brewing, anyhow...

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Twitter
The handomest people in the world are ones who follow my Twitch
Originally posted by Milk
Though, what I'm even more curious about, and I'm serious, is how much new stuff has been added to this hack since the end of Lightvayne's time? Not talking revamped stuff (music/graphics/level tweaks), but stuff that was originally desired, but never made or finished.


Not much, at least to the extent of my knowledge. Extra parts of a few random levels, maybe a tileset/background or two, two or three songs and maybe one boss (although I might be thinking of a boss revamp). Going off of those metrics, development has been very uneventful. Resource revamps have taken up most of the time in development, and that ultimately secures their title as the project's "invisible killer".

Originally posted by K.T.B.
Once we have this (along with SMWCI) out of the way, hopefully the community can consider focusing on a possible new collab project in the future.


I can't tell if the part about SMWCI is a joke or not. I think that collab is completely dead, unfortunately. If SMWCP2 can't get anyone interested, I don't think an unfinished YI hack will.

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Just to keep everyone outside of the Discord server in the loop, I looked over my To-Do list and made more items on the list less important. Along with my new To-Do list (which probably won't be updated on the site), I also suggested that a deadline be set for revamps. Everyone working on a revamp would be given a few weeks or so to try and finish, and anything the doesn't make it will just be replaced by the originals. I'm unsure how Falconpunch feels about this idea, but I think it is imperative to the project's timely release.
Originally posted by Minish Yoshi
I can't tell if the part about SMWCI is a joke or not. I think that collab is completely dead, unfortunately. If SMWCP2 can't get anyone interested, I don't think an unfinished YI hack will.

I wasn't joking. The SMWCI situation is completely different from the SMWCP2 situation; SMWCI was never nearly as ambitious, and the "bare minimum" for that project would just be finishing all of the level designs. Which are already finished, if a bit unpolished in some places. The only thing that's really been keeping SMWCI from being released after all this time is people's desires to add additional features such as custom music/patches, but none of those will be necessary if everyone decides to take the same "let's just get it done" approach with that collab as well.

But, I digress...

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Twitter
The handomest people in the world are ones who follow my Twitch
The repo for SMWCI has been forked.
Hangin' out in my non-school time
I think you're best getting rid of the bosses. Only slightly above half of the per-world bosses are complete (as I understand it) and there is so little motivation from developers to create new boss battles, especially complex ones which a project of this calibre necessitates. It would be noticeably odd with 4-5 worlds having bosses so it's IMO better getting rid of them entirely, or repurposing some of the existing coded bosses in some way e.g. as a post game gauntlet. We've been in this limbo stage for nearly a decade.

It should be possible to add cutscenes to the hack without a hefty amount of new ASM - there's VWF and a more modern equivalent. If you do add cutscenes though, less is more. ASMWCMP1 went a bit overboard at times.

Good luck.
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Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - An update on SMWCP2 (Serious)

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