Language…
9 users online: CrazyPencilDawg, DanMario24YT, howardadam1126, iamtheratio, kurtistrydiz, Rhubarb44230, Saela, TheOrangeToad,  YouFailMe - Guests: 278 - Bots: 313
Users: 64,795 (2,378 active)
Latest user: mathew

How do you edit existing hacks like Grand Poo World 2?

I've wanted to edit and play around with this particular hack for various reasons (for personal use and experimentation only). I've never really played with Lunar Magic before.


Thing is, when you open the rom file in Lunar Magic, all the levels just say "Test" in turn blocks, and none of the levels are different. Basically I can't see the actual levels and edit them for some reason, where as if I open the normal SMW game in lunar magic I can see and edit them just fine.


Is it protected or something?
Yes, it sounds like the ROM is locked.

FWIW, editing other people's hacks is a sort of grey area, not a huge fan of it myself but I think the general consensus is that as long as you don't distribute it, it's mostly fine.

I think there's a way to unlock ROMs with some tool, but if a hack is locked (a conscious process) it's likely the creator isn't super psyched about people poking around in it.
Thing is, why? The only reason the hack is possible is because the original game was opened up in some way for editing. A "modder" of any kind is an hypocrite when he closes his own work. Its against the very spirit that allowed him to do his work (hack or mod) in the first place.


Anyway. I did try to use the tool but it said it wasn't locked. (Recover Lunar Magic v1.4)
I imagine the reason is that people spend hundreds, if not a thousand or more, of hours working on some of these hacks, and they were made the way the creator wanted them to be. It's not supposed to be open-source work for other people to edit to their liking.

I'm not sure what makes it hypocritical to not want your work to be tampered with, there's no set of rules for how open-sourced your hack has to be. Besides, the very tool that we all use to hack SMW is not open-sourced, so I think it's exactly the same spirit that allowed the work to be created.
You realize SMW is not open, that the community forced its way through, without Nintendo's permission -> even use the patching system to get around legal issues -> and yet you don't think its hypocritical to just shut down your own work afterward?


When you do this, when you make romhacks, you take a stance that gaming can flourish from other people's work.


To close your own work made from this is absolutely hypocritical. You can't consider it "stealing" to work from your mod, if you don't consider it "stealing" when you borrowed SMW to do your hacks in the first place. They worked just as many hours on SMW than any hack, your hours aren't suddenly more sacred.
The hack doesn't look locked to me. I just downloaded Grand Poo World 2 from the Hacks section and I was able to view all the levels just fine in Lunar Magic. Maybe you're patching it incorrectly? Or maybe the hack really is locked, but whatever technique that was used to lock it is incompatible with the version of LM that I'm using (3.20)?

Recover Lunar Magic doesn't always work, because there are various methods people can use to lock the hack from being opened in LM. I've never heard of a locking technique that just replaces every level with the test levels though. That's not something that RLM will be able to help you with.


Quote
Thing is, why? The only reason the hack is possible is because the original game was opened up in some way for editing. A "modder" of any kind is an hypocrite when he closes his own work. Its against the very spirit that allowed him to do his work (hack or mod) in the first place.

Well first of all, there are various ways in which an SMW hack can be "locked" out of LM to begin with. I think the most common is when people use a hex editor to change the ROM's internal name from "SUPER MARIOWORLD" to something more personal. That's a good reason why someone would lock their hack, since doing so gives the game a rather professional flair - though the "locking" is unintentional in this case.



But as for your main point about why someone would want to close their work to begin with, it really just depends on how you look at hacking, or just content creation in general. Some people look at it as a means of contributing to a vast community of growing resources and knowledge, and one that they wish to help expand in some way. Others may see it as a way of expressing their views in a way that is special and unique to themselves.

I think most people fall into both categories, but to varying degrees; but those who more strongly align with the former category (i.e. you!) will be more prone to keep their work open, and those who mostly align with the latter quality might have a stronger inclination to lock their works. Why do those people keep their hacks locked, you ask? I don't know, it really just depends on the individual's perspective. Maybe their hack is full of secrets that they don't want to be easily spoiled. Maybe they see the hack as an extension of their creative self, and something that they feel is almost private, in some sense. Maybe they want the ins and outs of their work to be knowledge that only they themselves possess.

You can disagree with any of those reasons, but they're valid reasons nonetheless. Many people have taken your stance in the past, and many arguments on this site have arisen because of it; but it's something where we ultimately must agree to disagree.



And quietmason, SFJake isn't saying that it's hypocritical to "not want your work to be tampered with", at least not in general. He's suggesting that it's hypocritical to not want your work to be tampered with in this case, where your "work" was based upon the tampering of someone else's work to begin with.

Is it hypocritical to edit someone else's content, and then refuse to allow anyone else to edit your newly-created derivative work? ...Maybe? I really think it's just a matter of opinion here. You may lean towards "yes", but it's not something that there will ever be a consensus on. I can see both sides of the argument, honestly.

Besides, some people do create a lot of original content for their hacks! Take WYE's or Eevee's hacks, for example; both of these hacks are filled to the brim with custom graphics, stories, characters, and maybe even music that was made specially for the hack. These hacks may have been built upon another game's engine, but they come with tons of new content, too. This is a much grayer area now than just a simple level edit in Lunar Magic, and it's a lot easier to see why someone may want to privatize their works in that case.

tl;dr: It's just something you'll just have to deal with. If it causes you problems, then that's too bad, but if there's no alternative way to unlock the hack then you just need to move on.




Though like I said, this particular hack isn't even locked anyways, so...




EDIT: Okay, I just found out that this specific hack was only locked in an earlier version to avoid potentially spoiling later events in the game, just in case a player decided to poke around in the ROM. If you want this issue fixed, download it again from the sections - the hack was updated recently to remove this.
Twitter
The handomest people in the world are ones who follow my Twitch
Oh wow, thanks, I hadn't thought of that possibility that he just unlocked it later. It makes sense what with the big puzzle thing it had going.


Sorry for having butted in with my opinions. Again, thanks for the help.