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pure level design hacks
Forum Index - SMW Hacking - SMW Hacking Discussion - pure level design hacks
Pages: « 1 » Link
Just a question...

How can a pure level design hack--a hack with no story, bosses, or cutscenes--be viable(?) or make any sense? This kind of relates to why I stopped working on my own hack...it just seems weird to have a hack where the main character has absolutely no goal or destination.
What about bosses? Bosses usually show up in, say, a castle level at the end of the world, so do those kinds of stages even have a purpose without a boss? What about the very end of the game, when you complete the final stage? How can the game just...end without any fanfare or explanation? The player may not even realize they've beaten the game since the final stage would just end like normal. It just feels incomplete and hollow, in a way. I really just can't think of a way to make such a hack work or feel right.

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your simplistic human mind cannot possibly comprehend the complexities of my thoughts
Interesting question indeed.

There are plenty of games like Snake, PAC-MAN,
Bounce Tales
and the like which don't really tell the reason you're playing them. You just play for the enjoyment of it. Obviously having a story is better, but since level design is the core, not having a story can also work.

Bosses though don't seem to make sense without a story though (to me at least).


YY-CHR > Photoshop.
this... describes the original SMW

but people considering SMW to have a "story" might explain the kinds of "stories" you see in hacks

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Very very very shortly, this drab, workaday world and everything in it will be changed forever! Follow us into the golden country, into the empire of the senseless!
I don´t really mind games not having any story. Especially jump´n runs hardly ever live from a good storyline. The goal is to master the, more or less, difficult levels. so, reach the goal and enjoy the way.
Btw, really sad to see your project go, I only just discovered it and I love these kinds of Hacks, @Epic_manky

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C3 stuff: http://www.smwcentral.net/?p=viewthread&t=67626 HDMA-Codes and Custom Music included!

1 Island Of Vanilla Feeling: http://www.smwcentral.net/?p=section&a=details&id=5988

MaSeHiHa World 1: http://www.smwcentral.net/?p=section&a=details&id=6055

DINGS Demo: https://www.smwcentral.net/?p=section&a=details&id=12147

Consider this: do you play hacks (or even the original game) because you want to save the princess, or because you want to have a good time playing through levels?

Platformers absolutely can, and do, work without a story. ROM Hacks especially, because the attitude is "hey, you know the drill, have fun with these levels I made". Tons of hacks are just level samplers and perfectly good at that.

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Official Mario games do have a story, just not plot. The story is the mechanical process the player does fulfill such as infiltrating a castle because the level is designed for the player to do just that and the player is an active part of that. That is the reason why plot and story are actually two separate concepts that shouldn't be easily interchanged because the mechanical process of story mean that it is active and something that is determined via the skill of the player overcoming the levels in the game.

You can design a hack that has no plot and indeed hacks have gotten by well without having involved plots. But it is practically impossible to design a level without a story since playing a level, even filler ones, do convey a story through the design of the level with its aesthetic theming, the specific set of enemies and arrangement of obstacles used that the player mechanically interprets with their skill at the game on how to get from point A to B. Those levels also may double as tests of your skills if sufficiently challenging enough.

That is also why you should pay attention to the level design because if the player feels hollow after deciding to play like, 8 or so worlds you design, that isn't the fault of the level not having a plot to make you feel tense or satisfied but on you for failing to design levels to elicit the required feelings necessary for the player to feel satisfied with overcoming your challenge you designed for them to experience.

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On Pixel Art Requests: I generally do not accept work unless I either have the time, if I see your project worth my time to contribute towards, and that is usually me doing the approaching to you on that.
-I also do not accept speculative work as I do have various art I made on-hand with me.
-I am more receptive to equivalent exchange of resources in which case, you can DM me wherever I have an active presence on for the details.
-Other times I'm availible for your project is C3 request threads I may run.




Originally posted by Neidave
Btw, really sad to see your project go, I only just discovered it and I love these kinds Hacks, @Epic_manky

I felt like it had to be done, at least for now. I was thinking about starting a new similar styled hack (on a much smaller scale, of course) or even working on a simplified version of SMOW...which is why I started this topic in the first place

A lot of the problems stemmed from me being too ambitious or just not knowing how to get certain patches or features to work. Figuring out a way get rid of all of the extra stuff would probably rekindle any inspiration I have left, I simply don't know enough about ASM to get anything special to work properly

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your simplistic human mind cannot possibly comprehend the complexities of my thoughts
Aside from a fancy story, a good rom hack doesn´t require a lot of asm to be a joy either imo. You obviously know how to create nice aesthetics and great level design. The whole thing reminds me of Aeons Hacks in a way, which are some of my favorites ever. Yet, they have something original to them. I would be really happy to see something new made by you, but the amount of levels (should be at 40-ish?) would absolutely do for a full project. Maybe just polish and complete it like this on a, as you say, smaller scale?
Btw, no idea if you planned to include boss fights, but I personally don´t like most of these, so it was quite refreshing to just finish the castle levels, too.

--------------------
C3 stuff: http://www.smwcentral.net/?p=viewthread&t=67626 HDMA-Codes and Custom Music included!

1 Island Of Vanilla Feeling: http://www.smwcentral.net/?p=section&a=details&id=5988

MaSeHiHa World 1: http://www.smwcentral.net/?p=section&a=details&id=6055

DINGS Demo: https://www.smwcentral.net/?p=section&a=details&id=12147

Console games didn't even really begin having coherent stories for like three whole generations, so it's not really that abnormal to me. But, all other things being equal, a game with a compelling story is going to interest me more than one which doesn't.

Then again, my favorite 2D platformer of all time is Kid Chameleon on Genesis/Mega Drive, which has such a paper thin excuse plot that it is literally never referenced at all except in the attract mode prologue. Even the ending doesn't really bother with it.
GANYMEDE

Chapter two: Land of No Shame
Coming January 2022
Originally posted by Ondore's Lies
Console games didn't even really begin having coherent stories for like three whole generations

well this isn't true, adventure games and rpgs were always around on consoles in japan

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Very very very shortly, this drab, workaday world and everything in it will be changed forever! Follow us into the golden country, into the empire of the senseless!
Originally posted by 1337doom
Originally posted by Ondore's Lies
Console games didn't even really begin having coherent stories for like three whole generations

well this isn't true, adventure games and rpgs were always around on consoles in japan

Well, a fair amount of games in general didn't have a story.


YY-CHR > Photoshop.
A fair amount still don't now, it isn't a time thing

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Very very very shortly, this drab, workaday world and everything in it will be changed forever! Follow us into the golden country, into the empire of the senseless!
Originally posted by 1337doom
A fair amount still don't now, it isn't a time thing

You're right, and id also extend it that its not necessarily a binary of platformers being poor at telling good plots while RPGs conversely is the best genre for that stuff. I think what people don't bring often enough in these discussions are perhaps what determines the potential for plots and id argue more than the genre mechanics is the IP in question.

For example, Sonic and Mario - both series IP have dabbled in platforming at the start and still are predominantly platformers. They had also dabbled in RPGs at some point in their history, but their similarities end here. For Mario, it has generally worked best with minimal plots such as rescuing the princess, and the fact that the characters on screen and the level design are expressed through the gameplay. That tells you everything you need to know about Mario's narrative structure since it is in service to its gameplay and reinforces what I said in my earlier post in this topic.

Sonic initially does that too with their earliest games and even with their current games at the time of this writing, but their games have gone towards more cinematic directions after 3&K as it went into the Adventure era and beyond that make the series a vehicle to tell fairly involved plots, so telling a story through its level design is downplayed as a result.

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On Pixel Art Requests: I generally do not accept work unless I either have the time, if I see your project worth my time to contribute towards, and that is usually me doing the approaching to you on that.
-I also do not accept speculative work as I do have various art I made on-hand with me.
-I am more receptive to equivalent exchange of resources in which case, you can DM me wherever I have an active presence on for the details.
-Other times I'm availible for your project is C3 request threads I may run.




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