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What exactly do most people here think of the abundance of Kaizo hacks these days?
Forum Index - SMW Hacking - SMW Hacking Discussion - What exactly do most people here think of the abundance of Kaizo hacks these days?
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 » Link - Thread Closed
I'm not a huge fan of playing the hacks myself, since Kaizo isn't really that enjoyable for me.

But they're quite fun to watch nonetheless, and I do admire the creativity and level design skill put into many of these games. Honestly, it's been pretty neat seeing the genre go from somewhat half baked clones of Kaizo 1 and YouTube level rage hacks to stuff that's often on par with/as well designed as many of the best standard hacks and fan games.

Plus even if you don't like it, well the attention they've brought SMW hacking is nice to see, and will likely equate to more 'standard' hacks in future too. Just look at what happened to Super Mario 64. That game's ROM hacking scene had stagnated for years until folks like SimpleFlips started streaming the games and people made difficult hacks for folks like him to play. The end result was a whole host of newcomers, lots of impressive tech that we hadn't seen before and dozens of insane full length hacks with levels on par with Kaze Emanuar or SKELLUX's work.

--------------------
For gaming news and Wario discussions, check out Gaming Reinvented and Wario Forums respectively.

As for Mario's Nightmare Quest? Well, it's currently on Fusion Gameworks, ROM Hacking.net or the GCN at the moment.
I like a good challenge so I enjoy playing through some kaizo hacks, although I've been pretty selective about them to make sure they're not too trolly or not too heavy on item tricks, as they're styles I don't particularly enjoy as much.

Personally I really like how kaizo has evolved since the original series came out. They used to have a bad reputation of being made solely to be either be extremely punishing to the player, or as a low effort hack sent to popular streamers/youtubers to make them rage and get frustrated at the games. After several years, they finally evolved into a style that has been loved by many people, and honestly it's pretty nice to see the vast change in level design and premise.

Whether kaizo is for you or not, I feel like they had a large impact on SMW hacking, if not even a little bit on gaming in general? I feel like before kaizo was a thing, we haven't really seen much games in the spirit of Super Meat Boy or Celeste. I feel like some of them may be at least partially influenced by how kaizo is often a "1 mistake = die" situation, and these games have been loved by millions of people.

I also have been really enjoying how creators have been experimenting with hybrid hacks, showing that kaizo can co-exist with standard hacks. Hacks like Super Nothing World or Polyphony try to give the player multiple choices, or give them kind of a gateway to start kaizo. I think it's really interesting how far it's gone, and as a person who started kaizo the "hard way" by playing Kaizo 1, I enjoy how many newer and more accessible hacks have been made since then.
I am not fond of Kaizo hacks either.
Mainly because they are bad by design, since they allow little to no room for errors. If a game is not forgiving, it isn't really fun to plow through, unless it has something else going for it. Strictly speaking in terms of design, Kaizo is just bad and scares less-experienced players away.

That said, I did beat Kaizo Mario World 1 & 2 back in the day, because I felt like it was a "challenge".
In reality, it's just memorization of button presses and level design (the placement of invisible coin blocks, for example).

Once the novelty of this artificial "challenge" wears off, Kaizo has nothing going for it.
Personally, I prefer hacks that enhance the feel of the original game, when I wish to play a ROM hack.
"Mario in Yoshi Heaven" was a fun one, in my opinion.
Originally posted by animeloverxX93
bunch of text


Define bad level design and artificial difficulty. Throwing these words around just because you dislike a genre won't prove anything. If the level design is so bad, tell me, how did kaizo got so far?
Originally posted by Anorakun
Random gibberish


Because popular demand doesn't equal quality.
Kaizo hacks only got popular because of the novelty of challenging yourself and your knowledge about the original game's mechanics.

Maybe,you should read that bunch of text first; the answer you want is presented in my previous comment.
Originally posted by animeloverxX93
Originally posted by Anorakun
Random gibberish


Because popular demand doesn't equal quality.
Kaizo hacks only got popular because of the novelty of challenging yourself and your knowledge about the original game's mechanics.

Maybe,you should read that bunch of text first; the answer you want is presented in my previous comment.

you may not like kaizo I understand but know that you offended a lot of people including me
Originally posted by mio
Originally posted by animeloverxX93
Originally posted by Anorakun
Random gibberish


Because popular demand doesn't equal quality.
Kaizo hacks only got popular because of the novelty of challenging yourself and your knowledge about the original game's mechanics.

Maybe,you should read that bunch of text first; the answer you want is presented in my previous comment.

you may not like kaizo I understand but know that you offended a lot of people including me


Imagine feeling offended over someone criticising your design philosophy.

So far, I only see a single person - namely you - feeling "offended".
And even if you are, does that change anything about your point of view?
Of course not.
So, whats the issue again?

I am not the only one that doesn't like Kaizo, for obvious reasons.
Alone the first page of this very thread shows mindsets of similar nature.
If my words can't convince you, look deeper into it and see what others say to the matter.
Or don't, I don't care either way.
Buddy you're literally just saying "it's objectively bad because I don't like it". I find it super hard to believe the style pushes newer players away, because if it did games like Super Meat Boy and Celeste wouldn't be the smash hits that they are. Precision platformers are just a style of design and it happens to be particularly applicable to SMW and its physics.

Also calling something an "artificial challenge" is silly, all video game challenge is artificial.

--------------------
Originally posted by animeloverxX93
Originally posted by mio
Originally posted by animeloverxX93
Originally posted by Anorakun
Random gibberish


Because popular demand doesn't equal quality.
Kaizo hacks only got popular because of the novelty of challenging yourself and your knowledge about the original game's mechanics.

Maybe,you should read that bunch of text first; the answer you want is presented in my previous comment.

you may not like kaizo I understand but know that you offended a lot of people including me


Imagine feeling offended over someone criticising your design philosophy.

So far, I only see a single person - namely you - feeling "offended".
And even if you are, does that change anything about your point of view?
Of course not.
So, whats the issue again?

I am not the only one that doesn't like Kaizo, for obvious reasons.
Alone the first page of this very thread shows mindsets of similar nature.
If my words can't convince you, look deeper into it and see what others say to the matter.
Or don't, I don't care either way.


Then, how about try make your ideal "kaizo" instead of mean to others?
I'm really curious... #tb{¬_¬}
I think that some Kaizo hacks have an actual creative, fun and difficult level design, sure that it will be hard for new players at first but once you master it without using save states or rewind you will possibly master every other kaizo hack in that difficulty. Theres also Learn 2 Kaizo that i find it pretty cool since it teaches new players how to master Kaizo (duh), so yeah, if you are planning to play Kaizo one day you might wanna give this one a try. Pratice makes perfect. #smrpg{y}

--------------------
hmmm
Originally posted by Matt
Acho que alguns hacks Kaizo têm um design de nível criativo, divertido e difícil, certo de que será difícil para novos jogadores no início, mas depois de dominá-lo sem usar estados de salvamento ou rebobinar, você possivelmente dominará todos os outros hacks de kaizo tão difícil. Theres também Aprenda 2 Kaizo que eu acho muito legal, já que ensina novos jogadores a dominar Kaizo (duh), então sim, se você está planejando jogar Kaizo um dia, talvez queira experimentar este. A Prática leva à perfeição. #smrpg{y}
I love you#w{=3}
Originally posted by crm0622
Originally posted by animeloverxX93
Originally posted by mio
Originally posted by animeloverxX93
Originally posted by Anorakun
Random gibberish


Because popular demand doesn't equal quality.
Kaizo hacks only got popular because of the novelty of challenging yourself and your knowledge about the original game's mechanics.

Maybe,you should read that bunch of text first; the answer you want is presented in my previous comment.

you may not like kaizo I understand but know that you offended a lot of people including me


Imagine feeling offended over someone criticising your design philosophy.

So far, I only see a single person - namely you - feeling "offended".
And even if you are, does that change anything about your point of view?
Of course not.
So, whats the issue again?

I am not the only one that doesn't like Kaizo, for obvious reasons.
Alone the first page of this very thread shows mindsets of similar nature.
If my words can't convince you, look deeper into it and see what others say to the matter.
Or don't, I don't care either way.


Then, how about try make your ideal "kaizo" instead of mean to others?
I'm really curious... #tb{¬_¬}


Please learn how to read first, before commenting angrily lol.
I wouldn't even make a Kaizo hack, because Kaizo is, as stated before, bad by design.
Change my mind. #smw{<_<}
I wasn't being mean to anyone, unless a single person felt offended over a statement that was neither directed personally to any users on this website nor any Kaizo hack in particular.
If people are oversensitive and can't even talk over something rationally without getting personally and emotionally involved, that's their problem.

With that, I will refrain from further comments on why I think that Kaizo hacks are bad in this thread.
Originally posted by Matt
I think that some Kaizo hacks have an actual creative, fun and difficult level design, sure that it will be hard for new players at first but once you master it without using save states or rewind you will possibly master every other kaizo hack in that difficult. Theres also Learn 2 Kaizo that i find it pretty cool since it teaches new players how to master Kaizo (duh), so yeah, if you are planning to play Kaizo one day you might wanna give this one a try. Pratice makes perfect. #smrpg{y}

Well said! #smw{:TUP:}
Originally posted by animeloverxX93
Originally posted by crm0622
Originally posted by animeloverxX93
Originally posted by mio
Originally posted by animeloverxX93
Originally posted by Anorakun
Random gibberish


Because popular demand doesn't equal quality.
Kaizo hacks only got popular because of the novelty of challenging yourself and your knowledge about the original game's mechanics.

Maybe,you should read that bunch of text first; the answer you want is presented in my previous comment.

you may not like kaizo I understand but know that you offended a lot of people including me


Imagine feeling offended over someone criticising your design philosophy.

So far, I only see a single person - namely you - feeling "offended".
And even if you are, does that change anything about your point of view?
Of course not.
So, whats the issue again?

I am not the only one that doesn't like Kaizo, for obvious reasons.
Alone the first page of this very thread shows mindsets of similar nature.
If my words can't convince you, look deeper into it and see what others say to the matter.
Or don't, I don't care either way.


Then, how about try make your ideal "kaizo" instead of mean to others?
I'm really curious... #tb{¬_¬}


Please learn how to read first, before commenting angrily lol.
I wouldn't even make a Kaizo hack, because Kaizo is, as stated before, bad by design.
Change my mind. #smw{<_<}
I wasn't being mean to anyone, unless a single person felt offended over a statement that was neither directed personally to any users on this website nor any Kaizo hack in particular.
If people are oversensitive and can't even talk over something rationally without getting personally and emotionally involved, that's their problem.

With that, I will refrain from further comments on why I think that Kaizo hacks are bad in this thread.
it's like saying you don't like gays and hoping no one is offended
Please keep this thread civil, thank you.
Originally posted by FPzero
Please keep this thread civil, thank you.

Sorry
Originally posted by FPzero
Please keep this thread civil, thank you.


Sorry about that too... #tb{''}
Originally posted by animeloverxX93
I wouldn't even make a Kaizo hack, because Kaizo is, as stated before, bad by design.
Change my mind. #smw{<_<}


It sounds like your definition of 'bad' is 'you personally do not like it', while I doubt anyone is making a kaizo hack to intentionally conflict with your personal concept of good design. You're upsetting people because you appear to be making blanket statements based on a personal preference.

If anything, I would presume that a kaizo hack requires a greater affinity for design, since the whole point is to challenge the player's mastery of the game's engine, physics and reflexes, and there is usually less of a focus on aesthetics and decoration. A normal hack has a much greater tolerance for players to be unskilled, make mistakes, and experiment with different styles. A kaizo hack is built like a machine; there is usually only one correct way to play it, and you will fail unless you can figure out what it is.

That is not my idea of fun, any more than it is yours, but that doesn't make it bad. I can appreciate the effort it takes to design a working kaizo level, and the effort it takes to master one as a player, even though I'd never bother making or playing one myself.
GANYMEDE

Chapter two: Land of No Shame
Coming January 2022
There's absolutely nothing wrong with challenging level design, nobody is forcing you to play them; after all Kaizo hacks weren't allowed here just a few years back. Hating on it now because it became popular shows how much of a nerd you are considering Kaizo has been around almost since the beginning of SMW hacking, I do somewhat agree that now platforms like Twitch/YT made the demand even higher for Kaizo causing people to flood the hack section with nothing but Kaizo and sometimes they do feel rather "forced".

My only real pet peeve I see is how most Kaizo hacks feel and play the same, I know SMW is limited to graphics and has no original/interesting level design, but when people just starting using the same 1F0 gimmick in every hack it gets VERY tiresome.
Originally posted by Aram
My only real pet peeve I see is how most Kaizo hacks feel and play the same, I know SMW is limited to graphics and has no original/interesting level design, but when people just starting using the same 1F0 gimmick in every hack it gets VERY tiresome.

I think this often (but not always) stems due to many kaizo hacks being by new hackers. As a consequence of kaizo becoming popular, hacking being very accessible now as well as the fact that kaizo hacks are much shorter than what people usually go for with standard hacking, many new people have been putting out new hacks like bunnies put out babies. And more often than not, those new hackers don't think very much about doing anything different from the norm, because they know their hack will be played anyways.

Odd Sands, which just came out today, is a great testment that kaizo can be much, much more than shell jumps, enemy hops and ultrastars. e: cozyduck's hacks are others that come to mind.

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Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 » Link - Thread Closed
Forum Index - SMW Hacking - SMW Hacking Discussion - What exactly do most people here think of the abundance of Kaizo hacks these days?

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