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SMW Graphics Remoderation 3 & Knuckles
Forum Index - Important - Announcements - SMW Graphics Remoderation 3 & Knuckles
Pages: « 1 2 » Link
Hello everyone! I'd like to announce that we'll be remoderating the Graphics section. We're long overdue on this since the last remoderation was in 2015, and unfortunately happened -right- before palmasks dropped. The team at the time understandably just made them the standard going forward, but it's left a bit of a divide in the section that we're hoping to fix.

Our standards have also changed a little, and we're more careful about optimization and compatibility these days. We're looking to keep everything as easily usable and quality as we possibly can, and so we're looking to clean things up a bit.

The major things we'll be looking at are:

- Palmasks: The biggest reason behind this remod, and our main focus is palmasks. Like I said, the last remod happened with really unfortunate timing, and there's a -lot- of files without them. By my guess looking at page numbers, about half the graphics section at the moment lacks palmasks. We will be building these as we go. If you have an older submission you'd like to update to help, please feel free to do so. The less there is to remod, the less daunting this will be.

- Duplicate Rips: We try to keep one rip of each thing in the section, with the most complete being the winner, except in cases of extreme usability differences. I know we've let some through the cracks over time and we mostly just want to clean them up.

- Quality control: Basically just making sure everything in the section is up to modern standards. They haven't changed much since the last remod, but we've put a bit more emphasis on usability and optimization since then, so we'd like to clean things up here if possible. We're mostly focusing on stuff like map16 or palette usage here, so don't worry too much if your art style has shifted a lot or you ripped graphics from a game that doesn't look too great.

- Tags: We've added some new tags, so we'll simply be making sure the older graphics use them, as well as cleaning up any tagging issues that slipped by since they were standardized.

- The New Columns: Helping a bit with issues revolving around older rips using oddball palette rows, we'll be adding the palette rows used and slots used to the graphics as we remoderate.

Just like with the other sections' remoderations we'll be archiving everything removed Here (Obsoleted Rips) and Here (Low Quality Removals), so don't worry if you needed a BG that took up all 6 FG and BG slots as well as the entire non-sprite palette space, they'll still be accessible.

If you feel like your submissions have been removed unfairly or has been modified in a way you don't want please reach out to me and I'll address it.
Hopefully it goes smoothly, I remember being brought on the team way back when and darn was that a good couple year slog. Certainly don't want to do that again, so here is to hoping that the team is strong in both mind and body. The remoderation alone was enough to stress people to quitting, going through not one, but two GFX Managers. Big job ahead of you, Hopefully you can find plenty of helpers because the section has more easily doubled in size since the last one.

Don't mean to sound pessimistic, but that remoderation was trying on the spirit. Just remember to take it one step at a time, maybe five to ten files a day and you guys should get through it no problem so long as consistency is maintained. Good luck and do not let the job stress you out. Remember to take breaks.
Good luck with the Graphics remoderation! It'll be exciting to see this unfold, along with the new tags. 8>

And yes, please do be sure to take breaks going in! Sifting through as many submissions as there are in the section is sure to be an arduous task. Rounding up helpers when needed is also a valid option.

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What is a Lunar Magic, and can I eat it?
Originally posted by Skewer
Don't mean to sound pessimistic, but that remoderation was trying on the spirit. Just remember to take it one step at a time, maybe five to ten files a day and you guys should get through it no problem so long as consistency is maintained. Good luck and do not let the job stress you out. Remember to take breaks.


I wish a good luck too and I am sure all can be done alright with the right amount of planning and follow-up. Can't wait to see a new shiny graphics section. Cheers!

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Hot threads in your area:

C3 Winter 2022 - Non-vg ports
C3 Winter 2022 - Tribute to Soul Blazer
Good luck! I think I helped with 2 files total last remoderation and it consumed my soul already. The current GFX team has some productive beasts (looking at Anorakun) and I'm sure you guys are way better than me at this stuff, but as others said, don't drain yourselves too much. I see no deadlines, so please take your time with this.
🙏 Good luck!
Can there be higher standards for ExAnimation efficiency? I've seen a lot of graphics sets that use way more slots than they need to for no good reason. It gets especially bad with palette ExAnimation; for instance, this submission uses 14 whole slots for its palette animation, when it could have combined them all into only 1 slot and put the palette data in an ExAnimation graphics file. If I were a graphics moderator, I probably would have either rejected that or fixed it myself.

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I'm working on a hack! Check it out here.
Originally posted by imamelia
Can there be higher standards for ExAnimation efficiency? I've seen a lot of graphics sets that use way more slots than they need to for no good reason. It gets especially bad with palette ExAnimation; for instance, this submission uses 14 whole slots for its palette animation, when it could have combined them all into only 1 slot and put the palette data in an ExAnimation graphics file. If I were a graphics moderator, I probably would have either rejected that or fixed it myself.

Certainly optimization of all aspects (not only palettes but map16, exgfx space, etc.) is one of the scopes of the remoderation, as mentioned in the Quality control point of the OP. As someone who has been checking and updating some old submissions, it's clear that past remoderation didn't care the minimal about optimization stuff, but only about map16 conversion (mostly).

However (and this is only a personal point of view), palette exanimations are always a bit tougher than the rest. Certianly using an ExGFX file to do a palette animation is the best option, but it's also the more tedious (and/or harder) one to set up, which is the reason I believe it hasn't been historically a popular method to do exanimations overall, considering it's been a thing since Lunar Magic 1.70, which was... 12 years ago (at least from my own experience since those times and up to this day, I've barely seen huge usage of the exgfx method in comparison to classic palette animation using multiple slots)

That said, if you (not only imamelia, but anyone) can submit your own version of a certain submission you think it's wasteful and be totally be improved (which has already happened with some submissions), I totally encourage you to do it. Remember that the remoderation is a whole site project, so any help that makes stuff go smoother is welcome.
Layout made by MaxodeX
2021 TRENO vibe check thread
Originally posted by Falconpunch
Those old Wario Land 4 rips by cheat-master I hope will be removed, since my rips were made to replace them, as the quality of them were...mixed, to say the least.

It says in the OP that duplicates will be removed and favor the better one. Why do you take every single possible opportunity to reaffirm that cheat-master's rips are bad 💀 We get it
Originally posted by Falconpunch
Those old Wario Land 4 rips by cheat-master I hope will be removed, since my rips were made to replace them, as the quality of them were...mixed, to say the least.

thanks for calling out someone unnecessarily! not sure thats the purpose of this thread!
Originally posted by Falconpunch
Originally posted by Koopster
It says in the OP that duplicates will be removed and favor the better one. Why do you take every single possible opportunity to reaffirm that cheat-master's rips are bad 💀 We get it


Originally posted by idol
thanks for calling out someone unnecessarily! not sure thats the purpose of this thread!


What? I was...just saying... #smw{o_O?}


I don't want to get involved in this but i'll say this - While I don't use his rips specifically, his (and others) have been useful to many a SMW hacker over the years that I think it is bad form to go out to remoderate someone's graphics and take potshots like that because it puts into question your sincerity on improving the graphics section and making it personal between you and the person whose submission you remoderate. It's unprofessional.

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On Pixel Art Requests: I generally do not accept work unless I either have the time, if I see your project worth my time to contribute towards, and that is usually me doing the approaching to you on that.
-I also do not accept speculative work as I do have various art I made on-hand with me.
-I am more receptive to equivalent exchange of resources in which case, you can DM me wherever I have an active presence on for the details.
-Other times I'm availible for your project is C3 request threads I may run.




Also, speaking on the subject of Tags, I think we could add a few more regarding Foreground, Background, and Layer 3 tilesets and stuff, since there are a few more themes that are pretty popular or would justify being its own tag, but wouldn't justify the "Abstract" tag. The "Abstract" tag refers to anything weird or unusual, and shouldn't be used in place of a "Misc" tag.

Such tags I would suggest include:

-Toy: Refers to anything resembling a child's plaything or imagination.
-Dream: Refers to anything "magical" or "unusual", like world inside of one's mind.
-Flower: Refers to anything involving flowers, such as large flowers, or a field of flowers.
-Alien: Refers to any weird or unusual plantlife or environments found on alien planets.
-Misc: Refers to anything that doesn't fit into any other category.

Why these tags?

-The Toy theme is VERY common and I honestly don't know why the hell it hasn't been a tag for a while. Lots of tilesets would justify this, like this, this, or this.
-The Dream tag may not seem like much, but I think this tag has potential for those who want to create more unusual fantasy stuff. If it doesn't have enough space stuff for the "Space" tag, but isn't as weird as "Abstract", maybe it should have this vibe. Think of something like Honeydew Hills from SMWCP2 (reference here); Grassland feels like too vague of a choice for that set, wouldn't you say? It's a bit more specific, but I think this could make this more distinct.
-The "Flower" tag I can also see being a subtag, since giant flowers and flower fields are a more specific theme than Grasslands. We've got Swamp as a subtag for Forests and Jungles, so why not do the same with Grasslands with Flowers? Maybe the same with "Dream" for "Abstract" and the next one I'm gonna mention...
-The "Alien" tag could refer to unusual environments that aren't earthly, involving weird plantlife, different atmosphere, etc that wouldn't justify just having tags like "Night", "Space", or "Grassland", "Desert", etc. Think of this tileset that Deeke made as a request for me (and that I made a background for).
-And finally, if there isn't a SINGLE theme that fits ANY of the tags, old or new, then they can add something like "Misc". Like, maybe a computer tileset that takes place on someone's desktop. That's not really "weird" enough to justify the Abstract theme, and isn't really "mechanical", so maybe "Misc" fits for a proper "all the more specific themes" category.

And those would be my suggestions, after having pondered them for a while.
I have nothing else to say now. Huh...
Abstract is fine, it can easily apply to geometric shapes and the such. "Aesthetic" is, well, a very popular aesthetic on the site after all. I'll be editing the description to match the colloquial use a bit better. I need to update a couple of the tag descriptions actually.

I'll probably add Toy, but honestly Space works just fine for Alien and I don't see a particularly huge use for Flower. It's like... a sub-subcategory to me, since unlike a swamp which as a very distinct look and doesn't need to be in a forested area the only use case for using flower over grassland to me is for giant flowers. I'm also not huge on Dream as a tag, I feel like the example you linked could also just fit under grassland fine. It's odd and colorful but nothing really screams "dream" about it to me.

I'm against the idea of an all-encompassing misc tag because I really don't want every second submission to use it unnecessarily. I feel like our tags are mostly comprehensive enough. If someone has something that really doesn't fit they can always suggest more.

We'll be adding some more though. I'm contemplating "Redrawn" as a tag still (though I feel it can be covered by putting "Redrawn-Style" in the name of the submission) as well as a few more to cover player graphics. Probably some more more misc tags for organizational purposes.

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Originally posted by Teyla
Abstract is fine, it can easily apply to geometric shapes and the such. "Aesthetic" is, well, a very popular aesthetic on the site after all. I'll be editing the description to match the colloquial use a bit better. I need to update a couple of the tag descriptions actually.

I'll probably add Toy, but honestly Space works just fine for Alien and I don't see a particularly huge use for Flower. It's like... a sub-subcategory to me, since unlike a swamp which as a very distinct look and doesn't need to be in a forested area the only use case for using flower over grassland to me is for giant flowers. I'm also not huge on Dream as a tag, I feel like the example you linked could also just fit under grassland fine. It's odd and colorful but nothing really screams "dream" about it to me.

I'm against the idea of an all-encompassing misc tag because I really don't want every second submission to use it unnecessarily. I feel like our tags are mostly comprehensive enough. If someone has something that really doesn't fit they can always suggest more.

We'll be adding some more though. I'm contemplating "Redrawn" as a tag still (though I feel it can be covered by putting "Redrawn-Style" in the name of the submission) as well as a few more to cover player graphics. Probably some more more misc tags for organizational purposes.


I am absolutely still for using "Redrawn" as a tag for sprite graphics (GFX) submissions in that style because as one of the few people who does use, make, and submit sprite graphics in its best attempt to fit in stylistically with icegoom's signature comprehensive GFX hack that is SMW Redrawn (and Mario's Lost World, which is SMW Redrawn but amped up with the sprite palette slots to be having 16 colors for each sprite palette row), it would distinguish itself from the custom sprite GFX that aren't in that style, on top of it being made specifically for hacks using icegoom's assets as best seen in said GFX hack. It still has its place in today's SMW hacking landscape if someone wants a different look than the default SMW graphic art style or the art styles seen in the All-Stars games.

--------------------
On Pixel Art Requests: I generally do not accept work unless I either have the time, if I see your project worth my time to contribute towards, and that is usually me doing the approaching to you on that.
-I also do not accept speculative work as I do have various art I made on-hand with me.
-I am more receptive to equivalent exchange of resources in which case, you can DM me wherever I have an active presence on for the details.
-Other times I'm availible for your project is C3 request threads I may run.




Originally posted by Teyla
Abstract is fine, it can easily apply to geometric shapes and the such. "Aesthetic" is, well, a very popular aesthetic on the site after all. I'll be editing the description to match the colloquial use a bit better. I need to update a couple of the tag descriptions actually.


Good, as long as it's not labeled as the "Misc" category for tilesets that don't fit in any category. Abstract as a tag I think would fit better for those "A E S T H E T I C" tilesets or anything weird or unnatural like vaporwave stuff.

Originally posted by Teyla
honestly Space works just fine for Alien


Well the reason I say the "Alien" tag is because Deeke and Skewer have told me that that tag refers to outer space (I.E. planets, galaxies, stars, spaceships, etc.), and that itself is its own biome. Alien planets would be a different biome from that, according to them. Although, I wouldn't be against merging the two into one tag/theme to add alien environments.

Originally posted by Teyla
I don't see a particularly huge use for Flower. It's like... a sub-subcategory to me, since unlike a swamp which as a very distinct look and doesn't need to be in a forested area the only use case for using flower over grassland to me is for giant flowers.


Flower I think would be a nice subtag because people could want a flower field or giant flower tileset, or any tag that refers to flowers. I thought that flowers are a popular theme, so perhaps it could be split from the Grassland tag. There's a fair few tilesets with large flowers or have a sort of 'flower field/grassland' vibe, seen here.

Originally posted by Teyla
I'm also not huge on Dream as a tag, I feel like the example you linked could also just fit under grassland fine. It's odd and colorful but nothing really screams "dream" about it to me.


That's fair. But honestly, the Kirby's Dreamland tilesets as well as a few other colorful, rainbow and more magical tilesets feel like the grassland/forest tag is a bit too vague and have a sort of "dreamy" atmosphere to them. The same can apply to that tileset that Deeke and I made that I linked (which is also based on a dream world). That, and I was really hoping to add more specific tags to avoid the Abstract tag being used in place of a "Misc" tag.

Originally posted by Teyla
I'm against the idea of an all-encompassing misc tag because I really don't want every second submission to use it unnecessarily. I feel like our tags are mostly comprehensive enough. If someone has something that really doesn't fit they can always suggest more.


Well, what about a tileset inside of an old windows computer (like that one tileset seen), or a piece of furniture, or a vehicle interior, or even something like, say, a cyberspace area? You could justify the cyberspace/computer theme would be "Mechanical", but that tag can refer to anything mechnical like factories or robots or so.

I'm also voting in favor of a Redrawn tag. I think StrikeForcer makes a great point.
I have nothing else to say now. Huh...
Hipe I too can offer tag ideas. Indeed I'd like to see a "village" tag as opposed to "city".

I've noticed we have a neat choice of futuristic/vaporwave fgs and bgs, but not so much for 1800-1900s outsidish sceneries.

Also iirc there's some mix-ups with the House tag, it's supposed to feature house interiors but some exteriors use it.

--------------------
Hot threads in your area:

C3 Winter 2022 - Non-vg ports
C3 Winter 2022 - Tribute to Soul Blazer
It was kind of a pain for me to find desert bgs and tiles that didn't do the typical Egyptian theme that Mario usually does. I was looking for stuff based around things that can be found in the deserts of the Western US. I would like to advocate for "Mojave", "Old West" and "Meso-American" or "Pre-Columbian" as distinct tags. The first two would be alias for each other and would tackle stuff you would find in the western US. The "Meso-American" or "Pre-Columbian" tag I proposed would cover Mayan, Aztec, Ancient Puebloan and other styles of tiles of that nature. I would also like to propose a "Prehistoric" tag as well.

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Originally posted by FireSeraphim
It was kind of a pain for me to find desert bgs and tiles that didn't do the typical Egyptian theme that Mario usually does. I was looking for stuff based around things that can be found in the deserts of the Western US. I would like to advocate for "Mojave", "Old West" and "Meso-American" or "Pre-Columbian" as distinct tags. The first two would be alias for each other and would tackle stuff you would find in the western US. The "Meso-American" or "Pre-Columbian" tag I proposed would cover Mayan, Aztec, Ancient Puebloan and other styles of tiles of that nature. I would also like to propose a "Prehistoric" tag as well.


While I can understand the need for an Arabic desert theme or a standard non-Egyptian Sahara Desert theme, or a wild west theme, we already have a "Wild West" tag for the purpose of western deserts, and I think those tags are too specific to justify its own tag. I can however, see potential in a "Prehistoric" tag, as it's a common theme in ROM hacks.

Originally posted by qantuum
Hipe I too can offer tag ideas. Indeed I'd like to see a "village" tag as opposed to "city".

I've noticed we have a neat choice of futuristic/vaporwave fgs and bgs, but not so much for 1800-1900s outsidish sceneries.

Also iirc there's some mix-ups with the House tag, it's supposed to feature house interiors but some exteriors use it.


A "Village" tag could work, though how would it be distinct from "Town"? "City" is also a pretty common theme, so I would keep it as is.
I have nothing else to say now. Huh...
Is there a chance I could help with this?

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Wow, Weird.
Originally posted by Idyllic
Is there a chance I could help with this?
You can. Indeed, everyone can contribute to this, and we'll be glad to receive help.

In general terms you can help updating old submissions that requires overhaul (tagged with "needs remoderation" tag, but if possible the oldest the better as recent submissions mostly lack just the info slots).
What I've been doing when remoderating YI stuff is:
-Adding missing palmask if the submission doesn't have it, a crucial point.
-Optimizing map16 if possible. For backgrounds the usual is to tight possible scattered tiles to reduce map16 rows, for foregrounds the usual is to re-organize the map16 to make it more readable for usage (example: original vs reorganized, trying to keep the usage at minimum too, but depending on the complexity of the fg itself it may be more lax. Removing unused tiles is important too.
-Optimize palettes if possible, according to our palette preferences diagram. This may require gfx remap in some cases.
-Remove garbage/unused tiles from ExGFX files that contains them. It was a common practice in the past due to automatic ripping tools.
-Fix/update submission images. Emphasis on first image, which should always be the in-game screenshot, for convencience for the gallery view option

EDIT: You can also take a look of our submissions without palmasks list, which is a priority over everything

You can also just:
-Report submissions that requires a special treatment (dupes, questionable/low quality submissions, merge/splits, incomplete/broken submissions, etc.)
-Submit your own version of an already existing submission, GIVEN that yours version is objectively superior and the existing one has fatal mistakes, or it's just too bad in terms of quality AND usability for today's standards (emphasis on both quality AND usability together, some old submissions are still very usable despite being not the best on quality, in these cases it's up to the team to keep or remove them)
Layout made by MaxodeX
2021 TRENO vibe check thread
Pages: « 1 2 » Link
Forum Index - Important - Announcements - SMW Graphics Remoderation 3 & Knuckles

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