A little update to the Hack Submission Guidelines :) - Announcements

Originally posted by AmperSam

Originally posted by Sariel

Is it also possible to include the Credits in the hack submission directly or do they need to be a seperate file in the submission folder?

They do not need to be in the zip file you submit if your game has credits within it.

Sorry I wasn't clear enough with that.
I understand that I can include credits ingame or add a credits-file to the submission folder.
Though my intention was to ask, if one can add the credits directly in the despription of the hack's dowload site, e.g

Name: Super Bowser World
Author: Bowser
Added: 1990
...
Description: This is a creative description for a hack dedicated to bowser.
I want to credit the following guys, who helped me in making this.
Credits: Show/Hide

Music:
Ludwig, Wendy

Graphics:
Lemmy

Tools:
Larry

Patches
Iggy

I hope this example was more clear.
Personally I'd prefer this way, as most resources are on this site and you can stay directly on smwc, which saves a few clicks compared to
1. Visiting smwc to download the hack
2. opening the credit file and look for the resource
3. get back to smwc and look for the patch, music, whatever

But I can't judge if this is a legit way, too or if this might screw the hack's download site in any way.

Originally posted by AmperSam

I've amended the OP with the updated text of the guidelines.

Thank you Amper

Sariel raises a lot of good points about providing credits on the SMWC site itself, instead of requiring users to download the submission zip, extract the Readme, and then search the site for those resources.

It would be great if SMWC allowed submitted hacks to be linked to resources (e.g. MyHack -> SomePatch). Then Credits could be another field on the submission, like Featured or Tags. It would hold a list of SMWC IDs referencing specific sprites/music/blocks/tweaks/uberasm/patches.

It would also be cool if patches/music/etc had back-references to hacks, to see what hacks have used that resource (e.g. Pressure Water -> Casio, Bunbun, etc).

Originally posted by yogui

I have one question that may be controversial that I need to ask :
If a resource in a hack is from a user that is permabanned on smwc, should the creator still be credited?

The user in question worked on said resource, whether they are dispicable or otherwise, it is only moral to credit that individual. If a user has done something so horrific that people desire not to credit said user, I suggest just downright removing said resource despite how useful that resource might be.

Alright, I'm a little late to this, but I always thought giving credit was something you always had to do when submitting a hack. I mean, it's common sense really.

Also, not to start up an argument, but are we seriously arguing about giving credit now?

As I've said before, it's common sense to do that kind of stuff! I mean, games do that all the time people! And I doubt it needs to be anything too detailed! Just as long as you're giving credit for what they did, it's good enough!

Not trying to start anything, but I just find it silly how giving credit being required is suddenly controversial when again, common sense would tell you to do that anyways. That's my take on it.

Edit: I just realized that the whole argument happened a few days ago, (I just came across this thread, so I didn't check to see when it was first posted. My bad.) so I am late to say this, but my point still stands.

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Originally posted by yogui

I have one question that may be controversial that I need to ask :
If a resource in a hack is from a user that is permabanned on smwc, should the creator still be credited?

You still should; not all permabans are the same anyway. Of course, there are some permabanned people that were especially shit, but in those cases, I would just opt not to use something they made or reduce them down to their account ID number.

Originally posted by derv82

It would also be cool if patches/music/etc had back-references to hacks, to see what hacks have used that resource (e.g. Pressure Water -> Casio, Bunbun, etc).

I've been making a hack for the last eleven years, patiently adding in shiny resources as I find them--wouldn't you say noticing how pretty something is makes it yours in a sense, perhaps~~ :hyperkawaii:--also I'm a literal fucking magpie. Also there is no mention in your new so-called 'rule' of how much I need to change something for the worse so that no one in his right mind would want to be credited for it. I'm extremely confused here. I'm not going to say that you've ruined my life but you should really feel like you have.

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I’m still confused as to why people hate this rule change so much? It’s pretty much common manners and respect, but again it seems as if just about nobody has had proper morals for decades at this point.

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Originally posted by yogui

I have one question that may be controversial that I need to ask :
If a resource in a hack is from a user that is permabanned on smwc, should the creator still be credited?

Adding to what skewer said, if you have a problem crediting a user for whatever reason I would think you probably would have a problem using their resource if you are opposed that much to crediting them. So no, either credit them or don't use their resource if you don't want to credit them (~~or don't submit the hack to smwc)~~.

EDIT
"If you have an appropriate reason to not include an author in your credits."
I honestly can't see an appropriate reason outside of if the author remains to wish anonymous. Any other reason than that feels a bit hypocritical to use a resource to use if you dislike/hate the person enough to not credit them (or just plain spiteful). Feels appropriate to reword this rule to something like
"If the author wishes to remain anonymous."

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Originally posted by idol

heyy

i would like to note that, as of november 19th 2023, we will now be asking hack submissions to abide by the following hack moderation core value:

Originally posted by Hack Moderation Core Values

Authors should make an effort to credit resources used
If you use resources from the community, you should make a good effort give credit to the authors of those resources, this includes things submitted to the site as well as off-site resources that have known authors.

What we look for in included credits:

Either a formatted text document or in-game credits (you can do one or the other, you need not do both).
That good faith effort was made to include all authors of resources used.

When you can leave things out:

If an author states that credit is not necessary (if it is unclear, we recommend going with crediting them).
If you have an appropriate reason to not include an author in your credits.
If the author of a given resource is unknown.
If the resource is a Tweak (hex edit) since it is a very minimal change.

Including credits is a good way for resource makers to know the impact of their contributions and for hack makers to acknowledge that. So we recommend providing as detailed credits as you can.

the hack submission page has already been updated to accommodate this change. current waiting hacks will be grandfathered in, although we would highly suggest if they are missing credits for their authors to go back and add them properly. we will reserve the right to reject hacks that make no attempt at crediting any resources used for any new waiting hacks.

thank you! 🐎🤠

Edit: put the updated text in the announcement for visibility.

Can it also be assumed then that sometimes a creator might not know who the resource belongs to, and they can be provided benefit of the doubt that when it is pointed out it belongs to someone, that they can add the appropriate credit to the hack, file, and/or smwcentral alleviating any concern?

Obviously not all hack creators are out to ruin credits for people and some might legitimately not know who should be credited.

Originally posted by Keating

Can it also be assumed then that sometimes a creator might not know who the resource belongs to, and they can be provided benefit of the doubt that when it is pointed out it belongs to someone, that they can add the appropriate credit to the hack, file, and/or smwcentral alleviating any concern?

Obviously not all hack creators are out to ruin credits for people and some might legitimately not know who should be credited.

I guess it would depend on how they got the resource in the first place. I would imagine that the majority of people are using resources that they download from SMWC's sections, which always credits the author. Well, with the exception of submissions marked as "anonymous" - in those cases, crediting the resource as anonymous should be perfectly fine.

I'm not sure how you wouldn't know a resource's author, unless you got it from some other obscure site that didn't say anything about its origins. Or if you're using some incredibly ancient file from the early days of pre-2007 SMWC or Acmlm's Board / Challenge Games. Either way, if you end up in that situation then just do the best you can and ask around. Personally, if I had that problem I'd likely even add a little note to the credits saying something like "If you know who made x, please let me know!". As long as you're acting entirely in good faith, I doubt you'll have any problems.

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Originally posted by K.T.B.

I'm not sure how you wouldn't know a resource's author, unless you got it from some other obscure site that didn't say anything about its origins.

There are some relatively popular unsampled japanese song ports that get used where it's very unclear where they came from due to the fact they came from compilation packs. Usually I credit Gocha and 757 for them, but I'm never sure if that's correct.

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Originally posted by K.T.B.

Originally posted by Keating

Can it also be assumed then that sometimes a creator might not know who the resource belongs to, and they can be provided benefit of the doubt that when it is pointed out it belongs to someone, that they can add the appropriate credit to the hack, file, and/or smwcentral alleviating any concern?

Obviously not all hack creators are out to ruin credits for people and some might legitimately not know who should be credited.

I guess it would depend on how they got the resource in the first place. I would imagine that the majority of people are using resources that they download from SMWC's sections, which always credits the author. Well, with the exception of submissions marked as "anonymous" - in those cases, crediting the resource as anonymous should be perfectly fine.

I'm not sure how you wouldn't know a resource's author, unless you got it from some other obscure site that didn't say anything about its origins. Or if you're using some incredibly ancient file from the early days of pre-2007 SMWC or Acmlm's Board / Challenge Games. Either way, if you end up in that situation then just do the best you can and ask around. Personally, if I had that problem I'd likely even add a little note to the credits saying something like "If you know who made x, please let me know!". As long as you're acting entirely in good faith, I doubt you'll have any problems.

Yep that's what I was implying. Put in notes that you aren't sure, someone please tell me and then update with credit yepyep

If we use a Base ROM such as BLDC1 or 2, Romhack Races, or the Flux baseROM, do we need to credit every resource that was inserted into them, or just provide credit to whoever put together the base ROM? Or were the resources used for them already credited?

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Originally posted by Sokobansolver

If we use a Base ROM such as BLDC1 or 2, Romhack Races, or the Flux baseROM, do we need to credit every resource that was inserted into them, or just provide credit to whoever put together the base ROM? Or were the resources used for them already credited?

As far as I know, both BLDC2 and RHR baserom already come with a text file with detailed credits. No idea about the Flux or BLDC1.

Since those baseroms you listed are "knowable resources"--they're public so what is in them is easily found/sourced--and many of them already credit things in them, the minimum you need to do is credit the baserom "Built on X Baserom", and (if the baserom comes with one) include any credits file in your project's zip when submitting (plus the credits you have compiled for resources you've added). Listing out the resources that a baserom uses or tracking down all the authors when you are unsure is not required of hack makers, because people can reference the credits of the baserom by looking it up.

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Originally posted by MrDeePay

Of course, there are some permabanned people that were especially shit, but in those cases, I would just opt not to use something they made or reduce them down to their account ID number.

Personally I think crediting someone's ID number sounds much more reasonable than scrapping a resource that I built a hack or individual level around and has so much creative potential since the resource itself didn't do whatever heinous act.

Originally posted by Skewer

I suggest just downright removing said resource despite how useful that resource might be.

I wonder, would it be acceptable for a non-problematic user to recreate the resource (either using the exact or very similar code), put their name on it, and submit it? Not that I had any specific plans to myself.

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Originally posted by Sokobansolver

I wonder, would it be acceptable for a non-problematic user to recreate the resource (either using the exact or very similar code), put their name on it, and submit it? Not that I had any specific plans to myself.

Either way, it's still under the problematic user's authorship, and as such, I feel they should be credited. That is, unless you recreate their resource, in which case you could mention it was "based on [problematic user/ID]'s idea/code", but I don't think recreating it is necessary if it's usable.

Using and submitting the exact same code without changes would merely net you a rejection due to it already existing, though.