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Just hopeless or not used to the difficulty?

Heya. Been watching Kaizo streamers and clips every week for around 4-5 years & been thinking about trying it out myself for perhasp half of that time.
So, finally i got to it last week and bought a controller. 4-5 days ago I played through most of learn2kaizo. I got stuck at the double shell jump and just couln't make it after perhaps 50 minutes of practice. So. I decided to give Baby Kaizo world a try and boy was it harder that I thought. I have just recently cleared "Sky tree Jr" with a total of 1420 deaths & I don't know how many hours played so far.

Some levels have been so challenging that I've almost wanted to cry lol.

So basically. Am I just hopeless when it comes to Kaizo or is this to be expected? Have anyone had any similar experience when trying out kaizo as a beginner? I know I'm very new to it but Baby Kaizo world is supposed to be the easiest games there are out there and I'm baraly scraping on, clearing a level per hour more or less.
Nah, it's just hard. I also started with Learn2Kaizo and I remember that one of the first test levels (one with a shell jump at some point) took me more than two hours. After that I played Quickie World and every level would cost me at least one hour, with a couple of them taking 10-15.

Everyone sucks at kaizo when they start playing, you will get better with time.
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Everyone in their first days think they're hopeless, it's normal. Once you get the grasp of the tricks and the difficulty, it should flow seamlessly, but you don't know if you'll like playing [light or hard] kaizo if you don't try.

Speaking for myself, I am more of the hard kaizo guy, so I still resort to savestates even in light kaizo nowadays. It took me a long time to actually get good at playing and making hard kaizo.
I've started downloading a handful of Kaizo beginner hacks just to see how much I can do of them (and maybe as a guide for what difficulty I might wanna aim for in my own project). The fun tends to come from the rush of making it through a particular section and surprising yourself, but I wonder if I might compromise by using only a handful of savestates if I'm truly desperate or impatient.

Originally posted by Katerpie
Speaking for myself, I am more of the hard kaizo guy

I used to be as well (and still am just for this one project that's subject to that grandfather clause) but I find that I'm leaning more toward the light difficulty nowadays (as they are way more fun IMO, having both fun factor AND spectacle), and some of my recent/current works kinda felt like a transitionary period (and in fact there was a project that was originally going to be the hard type that I've decided to retool into being the light type, and may or may not also end up being a batch of optional secret levels).
I look at videos of various Kaizo contest entries and there's no shortage of creativity in them (enough to make me blush), like the modern day equivalent of being inspired by worldpeace's levels.
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Thanks for every reply. I really needed a 'lil confidence boost here. I did use save state for the first time today (the shell level) was just not motivated to grind that skill now ^^
It feels a bit like learning how to ride a bike. However with old man mechanics and way less free time.
That's completely normal. Getting into SMW hacks and getting into SMW Kaizo hacks is like two entirely different worlds. If you don't come from a background where you can easily complete vanilla SMW and scaled through the difficulty with Hard/Very Hard hacks, kaizo will be a tremendous step up.

Keep in mind that kaizo usually requires you to have mastery of basic SMW mechanics, much more than most hacks. Knowing how to jump is not enough, you have to know precisely how to control your jump and your movement to do exactly what you want.
For example, while normal Super Mario World might want you to jump on a 3-tile wide platform, where you have room to overshoot or undershoot a jump, kaizo hacks (even beginner ones) take for granted that you can land on a 1-tile platform everytime. If you can't do that, you will need to learn. And then they also want you to land on 1-tile moving enemies, multiple times. You need to have the movement down to your muscle memory, and this takes time to practice and learn.

While it is important to learn specific kaizo tricks, it's more important to make sure you have the basics down. And this is where Learn2Kaizo is actually not a good hack to start. Learn2Kaizo is completely focused on teaching you individual kaizo tricks, and that won't help you if you can't do advanced platforming. Shell Jumps, Spring jumps, cape tricks and the like surely are common in kaizo, but for every one of those tricks you come across, there will be 50 jumps beforehand that require you to have good platforming mastery. If you can't nail those 50 jumps, knowing the shell jump won't help you...
You should first play kaizo beginner hacks that are more focused on platforming challenges, to get the hang of the platforming, the movement, the basic mechanics and the quick reaction needed for these hacks. And don't be afraid to savestate your way through them, that's how a lot of us learn! Heck, if you need to savestate before a trick and try it 1000 times before moving on, do it, playing through the entire level again just to have a shot at a single trick can be too taxing when you're starting.

And of course, most importantly, don't give up! You should take a break from time to time, and it's good to recognize when a level might be too much for you, so you can focus your energy on something else first, but at the end of the day, you have to realize this is what kaizo is. It's difficult, it's unforgiving, it can feel hopeless... but then eventually you get it, and that's when it's all worth the effort!
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Thanks alot for your reply ECS.98. I tried to do some research before choosing which hacks to try out. First I downloaded Quickie world i think but it was way too hard. As you say, some levels in Learn2Kaizo were atm impossible for me to beat. I have 0 experience apart from clearing the vanilla games many years ago. And watching a lot of kaizo ofc. Do you have any recommentations regarding hacks that could be a help towards "my goal" of clearing Kaizo hacks like quickie world and the like?

I've also used save states a couple of times in Baby Kaizo. It really feels shitty though because I want to beat the level without any assistance.
Originally posted by Hemmagymmet
First I downloaded Quickie world i think but it was way too hard.

That's kinda why i tend to disagree with people when they say "Kaizo isn't a difficulty". I know in principle kaizo is a design style that goes way beyond just being hard, and there's a lot to building a proper kaizo hack. But i've yet to see a single kaizo hack, even the ones people call "easy kaizo" or "free kaizo" that is not objectively difficult for beginners. Kaizo is inherently difficult.

But that aside, you don't need to start straight into kaizo. A lot of hacks can give you valuable experience in your way to conquering kaizo. Many Standard: Hard hacks have a lategame experience that can be very challenging and help you practice your skills without being as overwhelming as a kaizo.

I haven't played many recent hacks, especially Standard hacks, so some people could probably give you better options to start off. But i will say some hacks i've personally played and enjoyed a lot:

This Hack Needs a Name: A full length hack that starts from Standard: Normal (very familiar difficulty to vanilla) and quickly picks up the pace to Standard: Hard. Later worlds and especially the Special World have some very challenging levels, and it can be a good test of your skills.

Of Jumps and Platforms: A 7 level hack focused purely on platforming. This hack has a great difficulty curve, starting straight into Standard: Hard territory and building up from there. Every level has an ASM gimmick, but the main focus is always on fast-paced and satisfying platforming.

Scary Bosses and Nice Sprites: This hack is your entrance door to Kaizo, as it effectively mixes kaizo and standard together. The levels in this one are definitely a step up from the previous hacks, and it has a similarity to kaizo in that there's no power-ups, so you have to get used to executing things correctly. You don't need to be able to beat this hack before you start getting into kaizo, but you should make this your goal at some point.

As as for Kaizo: Beginner hacks, the one i enjoyed the most so far has been Sweet World, it's a very platforming focused hack with some simple levels, it has some common kaizo themes and presents them in a very welcoming way, as a true introduction to these tricks (such as shell jumps having a bucket). You should give this one a try along with Quickie World and Baby Kaizo World.

Originally posted by Hemmagymmet
I've also used save states a couple of times in Baby Kaizo. It really feels shitty though because I want to beat the level without any assistance.

Using savestates to practice doesn't prevent you from coming back to the level and beating it after you're done. That's actually a great way to learn, even for the Standard hacks i listed here for you (if any of them feel too hard). Play the level multiple times if you need to, to get more practice out of it.

When i started, my first kaizo hack was actually the original Kaizo Mario World, which nowadays people consider to be a terrible starting hack lol. I savestated the heck out of that hack, and then as i got better i started to use less savestates (as in, first i'd savestate after every jump, then i'd play the level again and savestate after every 2 jumps, and so on). Eventually you can get better with that.
There's no shame in doing that, and eventually, when you feel confident enough, you can try without the savestates. The important part is you're using the savestates to practice your own skills, not just spamming them to get through the hack and be done.
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Thank you so much for the leanghty reply. I will check out those hacks for sure :)
As the others have said, getting used to kaizo stuff is really hard. I used to mess around with kaizo hacks myself years ago, and even with save states I would often spend hours on a single level.

The others have given some great recommendations for hacks that could help you ease into the difficulty - but since you mentioned shell tricks specifically, you might like Lurn 2 Shell by Wolfguy423. I messed around a bit with that earlier in the year, and actually learned quite a bit from it.
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I felt the exact same way, plus I didn't have the patience to keep at it. You might though so keep at it aight
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