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Activity - Lets get this going again.

All the main levels have been claimed already. You can only get secondary levels now.
Originally posted by ArcticPrism
All the main levels have been claimed already. You can only get secondary levels now.

Have fowwlowing the whole conversation?
Okay! I haven't thought about this for months, but I'm up for it. I hope it works out, too. By the way, I don't see a signup sheet for custom sprites, or one for patches either. Should I make one? Or is there one here that I'm just not seeing?

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I'm working on a hack! Check it out here.
I suppose we don't have a signup thread for custom sprites, but the mods have decided we aren't allowed to insert them. There are some sprites in it, though.

The same goes for patches.

THANK GOD THIS IS GOING AGAIN! SNN, YOU ROCK!

edit: leveled up for praising SNN. coincidence?
aran - Graces of Heaven
By the way, I think Riolu was planning to talk to Hach about allowing custom sprites into this (such as long as we use a similar sign-up) thread. Really, I see no reason why it shouldn't be okay - we have everything else.

Yep.
Originally posted by imamelia
Okay! I haven't thought about this for months, but I'm up for it. I hope it works out, too. By the way, I don't see a signup sheet for custom sprites, or one for patches either. Should I make one? Or is there one here that I'm just not seeing?


Hach and FP apparently wanted this to be very vanilla, they won't even let me use levelASM. And they would hardly even allow me to use custom sprites.

Apparently they're "afraid that we might run out of space somewhere"
(yea right.)
I own a community of TF2 servers!

ASMT - A new revolutionary ASM system, aka 65c816 ASseMbly Thing
SMWCP - SMW Central Presents a Product- tion long name

frog

http://esolangs.org/wiki/MarioLANG
I don't agree with the idea of this hack being vanilla. I think that a collab hack for this forum should really show off a lot of creative ASM ideas and such.
What it should be is basically "let people do what they want with their levels". We're already allowing ExGFX, blocks, music, and like, everything else. As I stated elsewhere, it would just be dumb dumb dumb to not allow sprites.

It isn't that difficult to manage. Just make a list thread and we're set.
I just posted the sprites signup thread. I'm not going to make a patches signup thread, though. That's just unnecessary, IMO. I don't get why you guys are like this. It makes me want to just give up because I don't think I can lead this if I just let you guys have every last thing you want. I'm not the kind of leader who leads by giving in. :|
<Adam> I feel like smwc is a prostitute now, because we put up a porn ad for money
I don't have a problem with restrictions as long as they are clear and reasonable. I mean, if we were doing a vanilla hack, it would be easy (although, then again, there was an argument about that in the vanilla contest...). It just doesn't make sense to me that we would go halfway on something. But as long as the restrictions, as I said, are clear, then it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

----------------

I'm working on a hack! Check it out here.
Originally posted by imamelia
I don't have a problem with restrictions as long as they are clear and reasonable. I mean, if we were doing a vanilla hack, it would be easy (although, then again, there was an argument about that in the vanilla contest...). It just doesn't make sense to me that we would go halfway on something. But as long as the restrictions, as I said, are clear, then it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

On sprites, I agree, my reasoning was dumb. For patches, though, I have a very good and clear reason:

What is the point?

Patches are generally used to change something about a hack across all levels. If I allow you all to pick and choose patches you want, what will happen to the ROM? Sure, you can repoint freespace, but then you're forgetting something more important: The hijacks. What happens when two patches hijack the same location, and you can't change one of them to hijack somewhere else without losing some functionality or whatever? In fact, ignoring that, when do we decide how much is too much? And going PAST that, what if your chosen patch actually harms another person's level? I'd hate for that to happen...even though it's most likely very unlikely. There's more to think about here than with sprites... So I'm going to be EXTREMELY adamant about patches. I honestly do see more harm than help here. (Note: all the bolding was just for emphasis, no anger intended. ^_^)

...And again, I apologize for disallowing sprite signups previously.
<Adam> I feel like smwc is a prostitute now, because we put up a porn ad for money
Although one could easily add one's own checks for their level, effectively nullifying your last two arguments. As for your first one, as I said in another thread, we could just have someone go through all the patches and combine them (you don't need to have them hijack new places, just put them together, it's not that hard really). Fakescaper already volunteered to do this, and I wouldn't be averted to doing this either if it makes patches allowed (probably not though I suppose). I think too much is when the ROM is full to be brutally honest... And we can get up to 8mb so... I doubt we would ever get "too much".

Anyways, what if you at least allow level ASM, then each person can send you their level ASM code that their own level uses, and you (or someone else) could add it into the main level ASM code for the hack. No conflicting, and no effecting the entire ROM. It's just a single patch. If someones code doesn't work, you just have to send them a PM telling them to fix it. This way we could at least have some way of distinguishing levels ASM style. I guess one could just use a generator for this, but we only have 16 generator slots...
Well, I kinda lost my level, exgfx, etc whilst stupidly reformatting my computer. I really don't have the will/motivation to hack anymore, so if you wouldn't mind, would you guys please take me off the list? Thanks a bunch.

Err, I forgot to mention, I currently have level 131.
Originally posted by Riolu180
Originally posted by imamelia
I don't have a problem with restrictions as long as they are clear and reasonable. I mean, if we were doing a vanilla hack, it would be easy (although, then again, there was an argument about that in the vanilla contest...). It just doesn't make sense to me that we would go halfway on something. But as long as the restrictions, as I said, are clear, then it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

On sprites, I agree, my reasoning was dumb. For patches, though, I have a very good and clear reason:

What is the point?

Patches are generally used to change something about a hack across all levels. If I allow you all to pick and choose patches you want, what will happen to the ROM? Sure, you can repoint freespace, but then you're forgetting something more important: The hijacks. What happens when two patches hijack the same location, and you can't change one of them to hijack somewhere else without losing some functionality or whatever? In fact, ignoring that, when do we decide how much is too much? And going PAST that, what if your chosen patch actually harms another person's level? I'd hate for that to happen...even though it's most likely very unlikely. There's more to think about here than with sprites... So I'm going to be EXTREMELY adamant about patches. I honestly do see more harm than help here. (Note: all the bolding was just for emphasis, no anger intended. ^_^)

...And again, I apologize for disallowing sprite signups previously.


What's the point?
Well if you think patches are useless why did you use the pirahna patch fix?

Two patches hijacking same spot: THATS WHY YOU COMPILE THEM ALL INTO ONE PATCH.

I'd be willing to do this. I did for ASMT and I think I could figure out how to fix any problems with that and even levelASM codes. I can even completely remove a broken patch as long as I have the origional.


when do we decide how much is too much?
Like we're going to run out of space in a ROM. Patches are the LEAST likely thing to make us lose space in a rom. Now music and levels - those take up tons of space. The compiled patch for ASMT had TONS of patches and asm included in it, and it only took up about 3000 bytes (hex) in our rom. Whereas levels music and exgfx take up MULTIPLE banks of 8000 bytes. And we still had alot of freespace left in the rom afterwards after inserting all of that stuff.

what if your chosen patch actually harms another person's level?
Well if I could compile the patches (and you sent me any that people make) I'm pretty sure I'd be able to fix it. Plus since you give out an actual base rom don't they HAVE to make sure it works. Even still, if they wanted whatever it was to not apply to their level, all they'd need to do is notify me (if I'm compiling them) and I'd know easily how to make it not apply to their level. Even if I can't fix a patch there's tons of other people who know ASM.

(not trying to sound mean here.)
(Also if you do end up finally agreeing can I make the thread?)
I own a community of TF2 servers!

ASMT - A new revolutionary ASM system, aka 65c816 ASseMbly Thing
SMWCP - SMW Central Presents a Product- tion long name

frog

http://esolangs.org/wiki/MarioLANG
Why do you want patches so bad? o.o Stop forcing him to keep on saying yes to EVERYTHING. There is a point where you should just stop asking for things and work with what you're allowed.
I think the point here is that, considering we're the hub of all SMW hacking, there should not be such large limitations. We should be able to go all out, and if these patches are going to increase the quality of the final product overall ... and if Fakescaper is WILLING to do the merging, then there is literally NO reason why this shouldn't be fine.
We aren't vanilla hackers, we are ASM junkies. And as SNN said, this hack should really be the end all. It should be better than any other hack ever. We have the largest collection of hackers in the western world (probably the whole world really), to cheapen this by not allowing, well, anything that is entertaining, would be a disgrace to our site quite honestly. If someone wants to do the merging (and probably make the patch level specific, since there is some stuff want in my level that most other people would not want, but that wouldn't work in sprite form, I can do that if no one else wants to) then we should be able to do it, as there is a near 0 possibility for catastrophic failure.
Originally posted by S.N.N.
I think the point here is that, considering we're the hub of all SMW hacking, there should not be such large limitations. We should be able to go all out, and if these patches are going to increase the quality of the final product overall ... and if Fakescaper is WILLING to do the merging, then there is literally NO reason why this shouldn't be fine.

My answer is still no, and that is final. I know the risks of going either way, and I am not budging on this fact. No adding new patches. (Except dsx.asm and Fakescaper's piranhafix fix and fade disable fix patches.)


HuFlungDu: Thanks for proving my fears. That is half of why I tried to keep this hack so vanilla before- YOU GUYS CARE MORE ABOUT ASM THAN YOU DO LEVEL DESIGN.
<Adam> I feel like smwc is a prostitute now, because we put up a porn ad for money
If you guys are making everything happen to your liking then there is no leadership here. You're trying to get Riolu to bend over and do things for your liking when he is going against it. It's already been made clear he isn't going to allow it. The only option you have at this point is to just go with what he says and stop moaning about whatever is decided.

Not trying to sound mean, but there's simply no changing how it is.
Originally posted by Riolu180
YOU GUYS CARE MORE ABOUT ASM THAN YOU DO LEVEL DESIGN.


No. We fucking don't. Do not just jump to that conclusion when you have no idea what you're talking about. 99% of the people who have requested these patches, dynamic sprites, and everything else KNOW what makes a level good. They have PROVEN they can design solid levels in the past, and they are BEYOND the realm of vanilla. They are ready to push this hack beyond the "good" range and into the "awesome" range, and if you're just going to come out and tell them they can't, that isn't very fair. Yes, you are right on some points - for instance, stuff like VWF would be more of a hassle than anything - but as for that merged patch .. there is literally no reason to not use it.

You may be the leader of this, but this is NOT 100% your project. If the community is crying out to you and you refuse to listen to them, you are going to drag the project down.

e: also not trying to sound mean. i can actually live without most of this, but my words come on behalf of the many people who want this stuff.