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2nd Annual Kaizo Level Design Contest - Completed

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@KaizoMan666: That's a tad easy to bypass as it depends entirely on your skill and experience at the moment of playing Kaizo and Kaizo 2. If you were an inexperienced brat without any skill whatsoever you might just claim that any level would fit in...

For a first round of testing use the 'no-slowdown' test. If you're still in doubt after that have somebody else test it, or compare it to an amazing non-Kaizo hack to spot graphical problems and repetitivity.
Of course you should fight fire with fire, you should fight everything with fire.

Oooh look at my userbar!


Sadistic Designer - testing Pit without tools.
Originally posted by zKiP

Added.

Originally posted by Glitch.Mr
Originally posted by Ultimaximus
Originally posted by Glitch.Mr
Are floating munchers from Teh Hack (named by some helicopter munchers) are allowed? It was meant to be parody of floating munchers from Kaizo hacks. I want to use them in our submission.

You may not take the graphics without permission, but you may use the concept.

But I'm author of Teh Hack.

That means you have permission.

Originally posted by SoulJester726
Originally posted by OGS93
so let me get this straight... the difficulty section is for the hard with maybe small amounts of slowdown needed and different conditions for winning points

and creativity is for the "without slowdown mostly" quite hard but not insanly difficult?

because if its not that then what i am reading in the guidlines sounds like both catagories are alomst identical accept from the difficulty?

i think what he means is that creativity is more like new traps, and people actually have to think to get arround them instead of just making a percision jump, and the difficuly category is for levels that dont have as creative traps, but the whole time its trying to kill you... at least thats how I interpreted it, and so i am making a puzzle level for the creativity section... as well as an extreamly hard level for difficulty. and in difficulty you are allowed to use some glitches, as long as its obvious what to do, and if it isn't have a message block with a hint. im not sure if glitches are really allowed in the creativity category....

Yes. I see the "Difficulty" category as one you would enter if the level is specifically designed to be very difficult. You, SoulJester, seem to understand what I mean. As for glitches in "Creativity", that is fine if they aren't overly difficult, and they are generally well-known.

Originally posted by Error 52
You might want to say what kaizo levels ARE. There might be someone who is really good at making hard levels but doesn't know they are called kaizo.

Also, can I include shell jumping?

Eh, an entry is an entry. Shell jumping is fine, but just think about it's context in the level, and the category you are entering. A shell jump in "Creativity" should be designed differently than a shell jump in "Difficulty".

Originally posted by Sadistic Designer
@Error 52:I think you can, as Patgangster cleared the way for P-jumping earlier which is considerably harder.

Note: neither Patganger nor I have the authority to approve something like this, but seeing as
Originally posted by Ultimaximus
Use judgement.

Originally posted by Ultimaximus
Use your judgement.

Originally posted by Ultimaximus
Again, use your judgement.

I figured I might as well use my judgement.

Thank you.

Originally posted by SoulJester726
hey, i heard someone say earlier something about slowdowns, a hck for the difficuly category, is it allowed slow downs, that aren't nesecary, or can they be for things that are nearly impossible without them?...

It depends. Since Kaizo must be played with tools, it'll be acceptable to require slowdown for a "Creative" entrant, like say a good amount of attacking cheep-cheep as you try to bounce on them to reach a platform. This is, after all, not excessively difficult. And since it's fine in "Creative", it's fine in "Difficult".

Originally posted by Cillion
Does double shell jumps count


Originally posted by Sadistic Designer
Double shell jumps are bad ideas under any circumstances (I hate them personally and they hate me).

Burning Question: Can you perform double shell jumps without slowdown, and is it fun? Or are you submitting Pit of Death 2.0?

If you answered 'No' twice you made a mistake while creating your hack somewhere along the line.

I don't have much of a problem with shell jumps, but I haven't had too much experience with them. I do enjoy doing them on a real SNES with Super Mario World though, XD

World Community Grid: Thread | Team
 
Originally posted by Ultimaximus
I don't have much of a problem with shell jumps, but I haven't had too much experience with them. I do enjoy doing them on a real SNES with Super Mario World though, XD


Yeah, but there's a difference between shelljumps and double shelljumps...

A double shelljump would be throwing a shell up in the air, quickly performing a shelljump against a wall, catching the shell you threw up in mid-air and performing a second shelljump without landing. Quite a bit more complicated than regular shelljumping.
Of course you should fight fire with fire, you should fight everything with fire.

Oooh look at my userbar!


Sadistic Designer - testing Pit without tools.


Is the "Springboard Clipping" glitch allowed? (note: that is the glitch where a springboard can push you through sprites and/or corners)

Professional frame-by-frame time wizard. YouTube - Twitter - SMW Glitch List - SMW Randomizer
I just came up with a neat idea.

It's a cross between kaizo and puzzle.
Originally posted by Kaizoman666
Is the "Springboard Clipping" glitch allowed? (note: that is the glitch where a springboard can push you through sprites and/or corners)

Sounds rather difficult. Therefore, use your judgement and fit it properly.

As for the double shelljump, I'm a bit busy to make such a judgement after designing it. Perhaps send me a small test level to try out? β)

World Community Grid: Thread | Team
 

is it allowed to make the player use a p-switch jump if they made a tiny mistake?



I might put some sort of signature here once. I guess.

Originally posted by Ultimaximus
Originally posted by Kaizoman666
Is the "Springboard Clipping" glitch allowed? (note: that is the glitch where a springboard can push you through sprites and/or corners)

Sounds rather difficult. Therefore, use your judgement and fit it properly.

As for the double shelljump, I'm a bit busy to make such a judgement after designing it. Perhaps send me a small test level to try out? β)


I made something where you can practice the double shelljump:
http://bin.smwcentral.net/15255/Doubleshelljump.ips
Go to YI1. :P

Originally posted by JeRRy86
is it allowed to make the player use a p-switch jump if they made a tiny mistake?

Originally posted by Ultimaximus
Use your judgement.

Words.
[22:25:05] <%andy_k_250> Turkey and Grease will one day be reunited - that day will be... Thanksgiving


Originally posted by Ultimaximus
Sounds rather difficult. Therefore, use your judgement and fit it properly.

Its not that hard, you just walk onto the springboard as its falling past a corner or ground sprite.

Its just that its not as well known as say, keyjumping.

Professional frame-by-frame time wizard. YouTube - Twitter - SMW Glitch List - SMW Randomizer
@Patgangster: I'm pretty sure you can get about 2.5 tiles higher with a double shelljump than required in your hack, and you could get even higher with some momentum.

@KaizoMan666:
Originally posted by Ultimaximus
For the glitches, I do not believe it is best to have an absolute list of what is and isn't allowed. It's a Kaizo contest after all. Use judgement, and message blocks if necessary. If it is overly difficult, rethink your idea or consider the "Difficult" category. If it is obscure, explain it a bit in a message block.

Of course you should fight fire with fire, you should fight everything with fire.

Oooh look at my userbar!


Sadistic Designer - testing Pit without tools.
Originally posted by Kaizoman666
not as well known as say, keyjumping.


on that subject i hope no one is allowing that crap (mid air) in a entry unless its barely (BAAARELY!) allowd... im sorry but being a judge in a kaizo comp is somthing but thats just like taking **** and the putting it in a envolope and posting it to thier door D:<

SUMARY: mid-air kayjumping BLOWS!
REMOVED

Originally posted by Sadistic Designer
@Patgangster: I'm pretty sure you can get about 2.5 tiles higher with a double shelljump than required in your hack, and you could get even higher with some momentum.

Yeah, I know. This was made for practicing it though. It's just about 2 tiles higher than the highest you can get with one shell.

Words.
[22:25:05] <%andy_k_250> Turkey and Grease will one day be reunited - that day will be... Thanksgiving
Well, I think adding keyjumping would just diminish your score in creativity and difficulty and result in losing this contest. I'm fine with all other contestants using keyjumps, that'd make it a lot easier for me XD

No in all seriousness keyjumping is not a part of Kaizo that's likely to be rewarded in a contest, no need to worry of such things. And I'm not even talking about mid-air, just scaling a wall is hard (horizontally over munchers is doable, but boring)

@Patgangster: real, ultimate POWER.
I reckon people who use double shelljumps in a Kaizo hack will be aiming for the maximum possible height, and therefore a stack of 11 blocks with another muncher on top would be a better excersize (I sent a PM)

For all people interested in double shelljump training, here
Of course you should fight fire with fire, you should fight everything with fire.

Oooh look at my userbar!


Sadistic Designer - testing Pit without tools.
hmmm


does anyone think the screen scrolling glitch is well known enough (the one that makes enemies fall off the edge :P)?

coz i have it in 2 of my sub levels XD
REMOVED

Originally posted by OGS93
hmmm


does anyone think the screen scrolling glitch is well known enough (the one that makes enemies fall off the edge :P)?

coz i have it in 2 of my sub levels XD

i knew it after i've seen moltov's pit of shells preview, so i think its not too well known. it is also a frame perfect one, making it probably too hard.



I might put some sort of signature here once. I guess.
Originally posted by JeRRy86
Originally posted by OGS93
hmmm


does anyone think the screen scrolling glitch is well known enough (the one that makes enemies fall off the edge :P)?

coz i have it in 2 of my sub levels XD

i knew it after i've seen moltov's pit of shells preview, so i think its not too well known. it is also a frame perfect one, making it probably too hard.



i dont see how its hard... i do it on my 2nd/3rd try without slowdown while dodging munchers :P

but i'll take it out if anyone else oobjects to it D:

EDIT!!: also how about entrance deaths? like fast reaction stuff
REMOVED


Originally posted by OGS93
also how about entrance deaths? like fast reaction stuff

Use your judgement. #w{=3}

Its probably fine, since Kaizo also used it a lot.

Professional frame-by-frame time wizard. YouTube - Twitter - SMW Glitch List - SMW Randomizer
I don't think shell jumps or double shell jumps are the worst thing a person can put in a Kaizo hack. I've done some practice with double shell jumps and estimate I can do them without slowdown with about a 15% success rate, although it's hard estimate since sometimes I will fail like 20 times in a row and other times I will succeed several times in a row (I once did a double shell jump over a 11 tile high wall of munchers 4 times in a row). Things I consider worse than shell-jumping are p-switch jumping, key-hopping, and precision jumping depending on the degree of precision required. At least there seems to be a reasonable level of skill involved to do shell-jumps whereas things like p-switch jumps are basically blind luck.


P-Switch jumps: 1 frame to jump.
Key jumps: Depending on when you land on it, 1-5 frames to jump, 0-5 frames to grab at the same time.
Shell jumps: Lots and lots of frames to jump.



...In other words, if you had to choose between the above three, go with shell jumping.

Professional frame-by-frame time wizard. YouTube - Twitter - SMW Glitch List - SMW Randomizer
There's some truth in that, after a bit of practice my success rate for double shelljumps went up amazingly fast as well. But I'm not talking about an 11-tile high wall of munchers, I'm talking about an 11-tile high wall with a muncher on top (effectively a 12-tile high wall). I think even 13 might be possible (no muncher on top, a cement block), but I keep failing.

There's quite a lot of truth in that some things are much worse than double shelljumps, but double shelljumps aren't fun. P-switch jumps are fun to watch, and considerably rewarding if you pull it off.

But that's not really the issue here, or are you pleading double shelljumps add a nice touch to Kaizo hacks?

@KaizoMan66: how is that the issue? Also most P-switch jumps in Kaizo hacks have a non-moving P, making savestating far easier. Mid-air P switch jumps are definitely too hard, but P-jumping on a non-moving Pow is easier than a double shelljump over a 12-tile high obstacle.
Of course you should fight fire with fire, you should fight everything with fire.

Oooh look at my userbar!


Sadistic Designer - testing Pit without tools.
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