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Tip: Bad things to do in the title demo: Enter a door or a pipe, activate a P-switch or a star, complete the level, hit a message block, or die. These will either glitch the music, or force the player into an endlessly looping title level until they reset the game.Not logged in.
Super Mario Odyssey - MSU1 Teaser
Forum Index - SMW Hacking - Works in Progress - Super Mario Odyssey - MSU1 Teaser
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 »
Originally posted by Kaizoman666
Meh, I don't really like the music. It just doesn't give the same kind of feel that an SNES game should have. Maybe I'm alone in this, but I'd rather have the music we have on the site than the fancy WAV music.

I mean, sure, the ASM and stuff is cool, but I'm not at all excited about the music.

This I agree with. I mean, the songs are nice, and they do suit, but it just can't beat .spcs in my book. It makes the game feel less like a hack, and more like a fan made/made from scratch game. Though, it is pretty impressive!

Overall though, I really did enjoy this demo. The graphics are awesome, and the level design is great from what I could see. The ASM was superb as well.

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Hacks:
- 3+World (Cancelled - Download Available)
- Super Mario World Beta
Originally posted by Kaizoman666
Meh, I don't really like the music. It just doesn't give the same kind of feel that an SNES game should have. Maybe I'm alone in this, but I'd rather have the music we have on the site than the fancy WAV music.

I mean, sure, the ASM and stuff is cool, but I'm not at all excited about the music.

I have the exact same opinion on this.


Or actually that plus "WHY DID YOU KILL THE ORIGINAL SMO THAT I LOVED SO MUCH IT WAS LIKE THE FIRST HACK I PLAYED ;_;".

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Good to know I'm not alone in this. :P

---Long Bla Bla Starts Here---

The reason I started hacking SMW was because I loved the original game. The things that made it great were actually the limits and trying to find ways to overcome those limits. Now with MSU1 pretty much all music-related limitations are simply gone. No limits to overcome anymore. That's the main problem I'm seeing here. If people wanted good quality music so badly, why not program games in C++ or something? There are Mario Editors for the PC that are much more powerful than anything you could do with ASM and allow you to use any kind of music and graphics. So why ruin SMW Hacking by "modernizing" it? To make it short: I hope most people will still stick to ported music and appreciate the work put into them.

---Long Bla Bla End---

Super Mario Oddyssey is great, but the original version was simply amazing. A master piece of it's time!

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Feel free to visit my website/blog - it's updated rarely, but it looks pretty cool!
Originally posted by RPG Hacker
I hope most people will still stick to ported music and appreciate the work put into them.


Of course they will.
A) Not everyone will know how to do this, same as not everyone can do music.
B) Who knows how long (If ever) the zsnes/snes9x dev teams will take to implement this chip? Personally I won't even think about making one using this until they do that, for the simple reason that very few people will actually be able to play it.

On a side-ish note, I never liked the original SMO, and while this game has not nearly enough time for me to decide if I like it or not, I had endless fun putting some of my favorite songs into SMW.
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nhBMPUzNWKw?fs=1&hl=nl_NL"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nhBMPUzNWKw?fs=1&hl=nl_NL" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Music can actually be edited, for any of those who haven't seen/heard it yet, there is a video. (Video by me)
Answering to RPG Hacker's post...

I don't think it would ruin the SNES game feeling if you use the proper music. For example, if you use only original SNES game tracks, it's almost like you're using custom samples with sample tool. Of course, if you insert some hard rock/techno/mainstream pop/etc. song in your hack, it can ruin the original SMW feel. And like HuFlungDu said, obviously not everyone will use this feature. Or more likely, a very few people (included me) will use this feature in the future. It takes a lot of space and it works only with bsnes (yet).
I wasn't referring to the game's feel, but to the feel of making a game yourself. It just doesn't give the same satisfaction if you know that everything you work hard for to accomplish could be done much easier and better.

But yeah, enough of that. Don't want to hijack this thread anymore.

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Feel free to visit my website/blog - it's updated rarely, but it looks pretty cool!
Yes, that's actually true. :) I will still use ports though (after I learn to handle this), since I can't really force people to download my hack in a 300 MB large zip. Only who wants to. ;)
Originally posted by Hadron
I don't think it would ruin the SNES game feeling if you use the proper music. For example, if you use only original SNES game tracks, it's almost like you're using custom samples with sample tool.


It would sound like an SNES all right, but I doubt it'd feel like one too. The music isn't technically in the ROM, the SNES doesn't seem to be capable of supporting that, and you'd be playing the hack with that in mind all the time. Knowing that what you play wouldn't be possible on a real console - which is what hacking is all about, after all - would really ruin the fun for me. If too much revolutionary stuff is added, beyond the limits of the SNES, and the hack feels too "modern" overall, I might as well move on to making real PC games.

Now, I'm not saying that MSU1 feature is a bad thing - It's really amazing of whoever it did (byuu?) to pull off something like that, in fact. All I'm saying is that nostalgia and "retro-ness" (can't explain it too well, but you know what I mean) play a great role in hacking, and having limitations is actually fun if you consider that your game would have been playable on a real SNES. Just getting rid of those limitations would simply ruin the feeling of hacking.

tl;dr: I'm no keen on this MSU1 thing, since it kind of ruins the fun for me. If only one or two hacks use it, though, I guess I'll be fine with it.

And yeah, I think all's been said that needed to be said. If a lot more people do have a lot more to say on the subject, I guess we should open a new thread for that. This one's about a hack, after all.

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I have to admit, BMF, that the sound and music was indeed amazing

However, that does not mean I liked it...


As said in the posts before me, this game did not have the right feel to it...
The level design was neat, it had a nice status bar, and great music too, but it just felt like I was playing some (admittedly nicely made) fan game that should belong in MFGG...

It was especially the sound and the controls that felt wrong for being a SMW hack, in my opinion

Never the less, it is a nice showcase of byuus MSU1, and as I have already said, it is still fairly nice by fangame standards

~Sind
I am thinking in something now, Since MP3 can have voices, after converting it, it will keep those voices, right? if so it would be possible to insert dialogues with voices in a hack, no?



Like /Everlude
Follow @Ludus.Art

Quote
If people wanted good quality music so badly, why not program games in C++ or something?


Please pardon me for ranting, but this really strikes a nerve. If you want better music, there are two options:

One: spend years porting an entire game from the SNES to the PC. Disassemble the entire game, figure out every last algorithm, every last random number generator, every last damage calculator, every last power-up generator, everything. Spend months getting the physics exactly right, spend months essentially cloning the SNES PPU to get effects like the ghost houses exactly right. Spend weeks ripping every last sprite and re-inserting it. And realize that no matter how much work you do, you will never recreate the original gameplay balancing, mechanics and physics 100% perfect.

Once you're done with all of that, now you get to port it to every system ever made. And now you get to spend another several months taking bug reports because JoeSixpack's Turtle Beach Santa Cruz and Hercules ISA graphics card have problems with their drivers. But the users blame you, so you get to work around it. And now you get to rewrite all your video, audio and input code for what the PSP uses, for what your cell phone uses, for what OS X users, for what Linux uses, for what FreeBSD uses, and of course for whatever API Windows uses this week (XAudio3D Pro 11?). And you'll have to keep porting it as new operating systems and hardware comes out, forever and ever.

And two years in when you realize how much work it is and want to stop, you'll have to make up an elaborate lie about how Company X's lawyers threatened to sue you if you don't discontinue the work prior to release.

OR, two: spend ten minutes overriding the game's "play music track #N" command with "is there an MSU1? Play PCM file #n. Otherwise, play music track #N". Ten minutes, and you have the game, 100% correct with all algorithms and levels and physics, etc.

You don't have to do any video/audio/input drivers, or any operating system ports. There are SNES emulators everywhere, and they will get fixed and ported for you. Your hack is every bit as portable as a real SNES game.

Note how I said to play audio above: by falling back on the old SPC code when you don't detect the MSU1, you'll even get full audio everywhere. You just have the option of some special enhancements, if you so choose, by using an MSU1-capable emulator.

Frankly, you're out of your mind if you recommend someone to go with option one.

That said, I totally understand the nostalgia factor of limiting yourself to just the S-SMP. By all means, I'm not asking everyone to use this in their hacks. It's just there if you want it.

Quote
the SNES doesn't seem to be capable of supporting that


The SNES, even without special chips, is perfectly capable of it. Take a look at this ROM:

http://byuusan.kuro-hitsuji.net/lunar.sfc
(warning, it is a 64MB download)

That does not use MSU1 at all, it only uses the S-DD1 memory mapper. Listen to that sound quality. Not impressed because of the ROM size?

Try this:
http://nesdev.parodius.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?p=57882#57882

2.9MB, and this streams a true, CD-quality, 16-bit stereo, no ADPCM compression, song on stock SNES hardware. You can run that right now on your SNES.

The only reason this isn't possible in stock games is because of ROM size costs. So don't say it's about technical limitations, it's about cost limitations. If you don't like MSU1, then your hangup is that it would cost too much to make in the 90s.

Quote
if so it would be possible to insert dialogues with voices in a hack, no?


Yes. There is only one stream for MSU1, though. So you would have to do your music on the SMP, and your voice tracks on the MSU1. Or you would have to intermix the audio and voices and time everything.
For those complaining about the songs using spc files and such, why not just equip some songs with a SMW soundfont to make them sound like they came from the game, not only would they sound like SMW, but you'd be able to do more with the music than a normal txt. Just saying.
Originally posted by byuu
Yes. There is only one stream for MSU1, though. So you would have to do your music on the SMP, and your voice tracks on the MSU1. Or you would have to intermix the audio and voices and time everything.

Sweet, that is simply amazing.



Like /Everlude
Follow @Ludus.Art

That is a possibility, Adam, but for some reason that just sounds like "cheating" to me. =/

Of course I realize that in a few years, using MSU1 in your hack might be considered the standard, and doing otherwise might even lead to being ridiculed for using "crappy old limited addmusic", but it still doesn't help make that "cheating" feeling go away =/


And another thing that bugs me about MSU1 is that it literally runs Wav files, which forces the game to be "divided" into separate files, another thing that makes it loose its "this is a rom(hack)" feel.

~Sind
Originally posted by byuu
Please pardon me for ranting, but this really strikes a nerve. If you want better music, there are two options:

One: spend years porting an entire game from the SNES to the PC. Disassemble the entire game, figure out every last algorithm, every last random number generator, every last damage calculator, every last power-up generator, everything. Spend months getting the physics exactly right, spend months essentially cloning the SNES PPU to get effects like the ghost houses exactly right. Spend weeks ripping every last sprite and re-inserting it. And realize that no matter how much work you do, you will never recreate the original gameplay balancing, mechanics and physics 100% perfect.


Byuu, you got me completely wrong. I never talked about porting SMW to modern systems to modernize it. What I wanted to say was: If people really wanted to make games with modern music they could stick to other systems which have supported modern music for several years already, like, for example, PCs. If they choose by themselfs to hack SMW, however, which they do mainly because they liked the original game, then they should also stay true to the original game. Because, as I said: If they really wanted to make use of that modern music they could have chosen another system than the SNES that had supported it for a long time already before starting to hack SMW in the first place. I never meant porting over the whole game to a modern system, I rather meant not using the game in the first place and rather using a game that is similiar to it and has been on this modern system to begin with.

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Feel free to visit my website/blog - it's updated rarely, but it looks pretty cool!
I wanted to put the audio files into the MSU1 datafile bundle, but that would make it very difficult for non-ROM hackers to swap out songs, and would limit the lengths of songs if the ROM hack packed them together.

And the MSU1 4GB data ROM is separate so that the ROM hacks can still run in other emulators.

This won't ever get adopted by the ZSNES or Snes9X teams, so don't worry about it catching on and replacing all classic SMP music.

Overall, I don't want to convince everyone to use this. I would just prefer to let it be up to the hacker, let that person do whatever they want.

This is obviously something most veteral SMW hackers won't like, but that most end users will. Very similar to the N64 hi-res texture packs.

Quote
I never meant porting over the whole game to a modern system, I rather meant not using the game in the first place and rather using a game that is similiar to it and has been on this modern system to begin with.


Ah, I see. But the SNES has wholly unique games. What if you want to experience an enhanced Super Mario World or Chrono Trigger? I don't see any reason to tell someone, "no, you can't do that." just because it's less nostalgic.
I think we're going a little too ff-topic here - this thread is about BMF's hack, after all. I don't want to stop this interesting discussion though, so I created a new thread for it. Feel free to continue discussing there, and leave this thread for actual comments on the hack.

(If any other staff member thinks this is a bad idea: Feel free to close that other thread and revive the discussion in this one again.)

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Uh... I finally managed to extract the files, but I can't seem to get the music to play even in bsnes. D:

Why do I keep wanting to type bsense?!

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Good fucking bye.
All I have to say about this demo is that the game is completely different from the original SMW. It doesn't even feel like Super Mario World anymore.

Even though there's not much, I am loving this more than the original. So keep it up!
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Forum Index - SMW Hacking - Works in Progress - Super Mario Odyssey - MSU1 Teaser

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