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Warning: Hacks with custom music break on real hardware

Originally posted by Andy_k_250
I find this interesting. How can BSNES (the holy grail of accurate emulators) fail to crash a ROM that the SNES would crash? I realize that it is currently the most accurate emulator on the market, but little things like this are all the more reason not to buy into the ongoing fellating of BSNES.

There is a reason it is 99% accurate, not 100% accurate. Just because it isn't perfect doesn't mean it's not a better alternative to one that has many more times the bugs BSNES does.

Originally posted by Andy_K_250
or just don't care (90 percent of the userbase, at least), BSNES is not a viable option.

That, my friend, is bull crap. You don't care about compatibility so it's not a viable option? I don't even think this deserves a sarcastically witty reply...

Originally posted by Luigi'sKingdom
Who freaking cares if it's able to play on the actual SNES

It seems that anyone deep in ASM cares, and everyone else in the entire freaking world does not...

Originally posted by Luigi'sKingdom
Most people are fine with using an emulator, no matter what emulator it is, sure, a rom might not be compatible with a certain emulator, just get over it download all three

I'm fine with using an emulator as well, just one that actually works would be great. The point is, zsnes will eventually catch up and emulate things correctly, then all the idiots who think compatibility isn't an issue will have no where to go, all of their work will be invalidated because no one will be able to play it except with an extremely dated program, which would still happen for this "generation" of lazy hackers, but the next "generation" won't even consider it.

Originally posted by Luigi'sKingdom
that is for my hack testing, and It does not suck, it does a fine job.

AHAHAHAHAHA! No. ZSNES does not do a fine job, not only will it NOT crash when it should, there are also times where it WILL crash when it shouldn't, for instance on Roy's boss for SMWCP and within a level I am currently making. Any self respecting hacker should use a something that actually emulates the snes correctly when testing their hacks.

Originally posted by Luigi'sKingdom
what about people who don't have a real SNES or a Wii/DS to homebrew play hacks?

BSNES!!!
EDITED TO NOT STRETCH TABLES
Can't really say I like it any better...
It's weird you have inclusive pronouns, but still only have the binary options for gender. Where is Non-Binary, Agender, etc? Not a gripe. Just curious lmao.
Originally posted by Satan
There is so much that can go wrong with AddmusicM. Miss just one instruction by a bit and it's not going to work. For experienced hackers like us no problem, we simply try again until it works out. Some people function differently than us, though. You seem to forget that in all of your arguments. Some people easily get frustrated if something doesn't work out even after multiple tries, and since so much can go wrong with AddmusicM the chance for that happening is pretty high.

So true. I spent a good two hours the other day trying to get it to work...I swear I did the exact same thing that I did before when it worked, and I followed the instructions in the tutorial to the letter (not that it's exactly difficult to remember what to do anyway), but I could not get it to work no matter how hard I tried. I never did figure out why; I finally just said "to heck with it" and used Romi's instead.

Originally posted by Kaijyuu
Are they frustrated because what they're using lacks documentation?

HECK YES...and that applies to more than just AddmusicM.

Originally posted by Satan
No, they're frustrated because a tool got replaced by a tool that's harder to use for a feature they NEVER, EVER, EVER asked for and NEVER cared about. That's pretty much the point of all my arguments.

And a very good point it is. The basic-level hacker who just wants to add a couple custom songs to a short hack won't care about .brr samples, extra N-SPC commands, and the like. Also, some of the more primitive and malfunctioning tools may even have more features than the better-quality ones...I'm still not sure that AddmusicM allows any sort of custom sound effects. It looks like there may have been plans for it, judging by SESupport.bin and the (woefully paltry) information about what they referred to as channels #9 to #12, but the information about it is just too poor.

Originally posted by Kaijyuu
It's a useful thing to know how to do, since every patch nowadays uses it. If someone wants to use addmusic, it's not far fetched to assume they'll want to use at least one of the patches in the patch section.

While I agree that everyone should learn how to use xkas, I would like to bring something up. Remember how we were complaining about AddmusicM not checking for freespace before inserting its hacks? Well, just how much freespace does it require? There is still quite a bit in the unexpanded portion of the ROM...and if the hacks were always installed in the same place in the unexpanded area, it would be possible to make INIT.asm into an IPS patch if necessary.

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ZSNES sucks (no) (yes)

I've just recently begun to use bsnes for most things, many of which I would previously have used ZSNES for. It still has some things about it that I find rather annoying, but it's worth it. I don't think we should write off ZSNES, though, just because it (rather, the savestates it creates) is required for things like edit1754's BG ripper.

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I'm working on a hack! Check it out here. Progress: 64/95 levels.
I just want to say that the statement that ZSNES will catch up and

Originally posted by HFD
then all the idiots who think compatibility isn't an issue will have no where to go


doesn't really make any point as people could just download an older version.

Regarding the whole thing, I am totally on andy's side.
As long as there is no completely bug free addmusic that doesn't make the game crash under certain circumstances SNES compatibility shouldn't be forced.
However, if, for example, addmusicM fixes the bugs that have been found then there really is no excuse for incompatibility.
Your layout has been removed.
We don't need to be anal about standards, like if this were some snotty high art group. A little compromise won't kill anyone for the moment.
Originally posted by Satan
Now don't argue with "I don't have sympathy for people who get frustrated over a failure". That's just your personal opinion and doesn't have anything to do with this discussion.

Well, my personal opinion (which you are right about) has just as much to do with the discussion as yours. I don't think people in such a mindset are worth worrying about. You do.

Aaaand I don't think there's any more to say about that. Agree to disagree sound good?

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No, they're frustrated because a tool got replaced by a tool that's harder to use for a feature they NEVER, EVER, EVER asked for and NEVER cared about.

There are a lot of SNES limitations these people never cared about yet are still forced to abide by to have their hack hosted here. How is this different?

I'd encourage such people to move on to game maker or something else, as they're a lot easier and have less limitations. I guess they chose romhacking due to the pre-made assets, which isn't unreasonable I guess... but you don't build your house next to a coal power plant and complain about the smoke. Or something like that.




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It seems that anyone deep in ASM cares, and everyone else in the entire freaking world does not...

Eh, not sure I'd draw the line right there. I think some people are here because they want to make a SNES game, and some are here to make any game. If they don't care about the SNES part, of course they don't care about compatibility. See my previous paragraph for what I think about them.


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While I agree that everyone should learn how to use xkas, I would like to bring something up. Remember how we were complaining about AddmusicM not checking for freespace before inserting its hacks? Well, just how much freespace does it require? There is still quite a bit in the unexpanded portion of the ROM...and if the hacks were always installed in the same place in the unexpanded area, it would be possible to make INIT.asm into an IPS patch if necessary.

Hrm, not totally sure it's worth it. People should know how to use IPS patches as well, but IPS patches carry their own risks. Good chance people would patch out of order and screw something up.

An easy to understand step by step guide should be fine. This is ok, but it links to an outdated version of addmusicM.


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Are they frustrated because what they're using lacks documentation?
HECK YES...and that applies to more than just AddmusicM.

Heh. Agreed. However, if addmusicM gets fixed sometime soon, the documentation is something we can do without too much trouble. A disassembly even wouldn't be bad, as it's no where near as big as Lunar Magic and applies all the ASM hacks at once.

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The basic-level hacker who just wants to add a couple custom songs to a short hack won't care about .brr samples, extra N-SPC commands, and the like.

Non-issue. Those things are handled by the music porter, not the bumbling new user. As for .brr samples, they're actually easier to import than samples with smkdan's tool, so...

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I'm still not sure that AddmusicM allows any sort of custom sound effects.

You really want those sound effects :)

Even if addmusicM doesn't support them, I doubt they'll be too hard to implement with some knowledge of SPC coding.

Not worth breaking your ROM over, imo.


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I just want to say that the statement that ZSNES will catch up

Last I heard ZSNES's development has ceased.

And yeah people can download it if they want to play an old, broken hack. I think it's in everyone's best interest to limit the number of broken hacks, though. Nothing's stopping people from using Romi's without the -se command (from what I've heard that's the only thing that breaks).

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We don't need to be anal about standards, like if this were some snotty high art group. A little compromise won't kill anyone for the moment.

Who's more snotty, the artist that ignores a blatant flaw in their work, or the artist that ignores art with blatant flaws?

...actually they're both rather annoying. Hrm.
Originally posted by Kaijyuu
Nothing's stopping people from using Romi's without the -se command (from what I've heard that's the only thing that breaks).


well, as stated previously, only users that have been at this for awhile actually do this, so, we should be good if we get something like this out to those users by putting it in a tip or something "Tip:don't use the -se command with Romi's Addmusic", or, we could just get rid of that function of Romi's, either way would work.
It's weird you have inclusive pronouns, but still only have the binary options for gender. Where is Non-Binary, Agender, etc? Not a gripe. Just curious lmao.
but if you dont use it, custom sfx cant be inserted ;_;
Originally posted by Spooky Luma
but if you dont use it, custom sfx cant be inserted ;_;


I think we know that.. but we have no other choice since it freaks up the game shtuff if put onto a real snes or wii/ds
It's weird you have inclusive pronouns, but still only have the binary options for gender. Where is Non-Binary, Agender, etc? Not a gripe. Just curious lmao.
Originally posted by Kaijyuu
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No, they're frustrated because a tool got replaced by a tool that's harder to use for a feature they NEVER, EVER, EVER asked for and NEVER cared about.

There are a lot of SNES limitations these people never cared about yet are still forced to abide by to have their hack hosted here. How is this different?


Yeah, but most of these are either easy to handle or have already been there from the beginning. The echo issue for example. People had been doing that wrong all the time. However, since it only requires a change of one value in the song it's not too hard to handle and not too much to expect from the userbase (or rather the music porters). Forcing them to switch from carol's and Romi's Addmusic to AddmusicM, however, is a much bigger step. I'd like to emphasize once again that AddmusicM is a LOT harder to uses than the other two, even if it doesn't seem so.

I mean I completely get almost all of your points, but I think SMW Hacking is still mostly about fun. The harder it gets, the less fun it is for some people. Making an art out of SMW Hacking kind of kills the purpose of everything in my opinion. People are not doing this as a job, but rather as a hobby, so it should stay as fun and easy as possible. Or look at it like this: If Lunar Magic hadn't been invented, most people here had never started hacking SMW. Lunar Magic made everything a lot easier, which was the reason many people started hacking the game in the first place. Now just imagine if LM had a bug that made the game crash on the SNES. Would you tell them "Don't use LM, rather use custom ASM patches and xkas to hack your games. Using LM makes your hacks incompatible with real hardware!"? And would you argue "You had limitations to pass by in the first place, this is just one more limitation!" Obviously you wouldn't say that (I guess?) and noone would do that, anyways. They'd continue using LM. Even if a new level editor got made that was less functional but had that bug fixed most people would still continue using LM. That's just how it is, the Addmusic issue is the same thing.

The only way to make people switch over to AddmusicM - and that's the essence of my posts - is to make it better AND at least as easy to use as the previous Addmusics if not even easier. Instead of telling people to switch over to AddmusicM, why not just work on achieving this goal and improving Addmusic? I'd be glad to help as much as I can to do this, but until we've reached that goal I won't tell people to switch over to AddmusicM. Words are cool, but if you really want people to switch over to a "better" Addmusic you need more than that, you need actions.
Feel free to visit my website/blog - it's updated rarely, but it looks pretty cool!
Originally posted by Kaijyuu

Who's more snotty, the artist that ignores a blatant flaw in their work, or the artist that ignores art with blatant flaws?

Failed analogy. I'm not arguing that the current hacks are perfect as they are. Next.
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Making an art out of SMW Hacking kind of kills the purpose of everything in my opinion. People are not doing this as a job, but rather as a hobby

It already is an art, imo, like any form of game design. People paint, draw, compose, write, etc all the time as hobbies and I don't think this is any different. Hobbyists can of course ignore criticism and such under the excuse of "I'm just doing it for fun" but that doesn't fix the problems their work may have.

Analogy time: Painters pick their paint and canvas carefully if they know what they're doing. If their paint and/or canvas isn't working the way they want, they should switch to a new medium that does. Maybe watercolor instead of acrylic, or whatever.

Picking the SNES to make one's game is like picking a canvas or paint. The limitations of the SNES are why one would make the game on the system. If a designer wants high quality music, more than 256 colors, or whatever, perhaps they should switch to a medium that allows that.


I know I'm repeating myself, but I just can't take the "it's too hard" arguments seriously when there are plenty of easy alternatives to make a game in. They just don't have all the pre-made assets that SMW does (not that I'm dismissing the allure of pre-made assets, as I'm not exactly making homebrew here either).

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If Lunar Magic hadn't been invented, most people here had never started hacking SMW. Lunar Magic made everything a lot easier, which was the reason many people started hacking the game in the first place.

Very true. I'd be lying if I said I'd be hacking SMW anyway without LM existing.

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Now just imagine if LM had a bug that made the game crash on the SNES. Would you tell them "Don't use LM, rather use custom ASM patches and xkas to hack your games. Using LM makes your hacks incompatible with real hardware!"? And would you argue "You had limitations to pass by in the first place, this is just one more limitation!" Obviously you wouldn't say that (I guess?) and noone would do that, anyways. They'd continue using LM. Even if a new level editor got made that was less functional but had that bug fixed most people would still continue using LM. That's just how it is, the Addmusic issue is the same thing.

I personally would stop using LM and would yell at fusoya to fix the bug. I can't yell at the authors of addmusic since they're not here.

Yes I would argue hacks with such a flaw, regardless of if LM inserted it or any other tool, would be extremely devalued. Would I ignore them entirely? Eh, that'd be snotty of me, but yeah probably.


And I fully understand most people are going to keep doing whatever they're doing right now, regardless of what I say. The only people I hope to convince are the hack moderators/admins, since I assume they're at least browsing this thread once in a while. And since none of them are regularly posting, the only arguments I can rebut are everyone else's :)

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The only way to make people switch over to AddmusicM - and that's the essence of my posts - is to make it better AND at least as easy to use as the previous Addmusics if not even easier. Instead of telling people to switch over to AddmusicM, why not just work on achieving this goal and improving Addmusic? I'd be glad to help as much as I can to do this, but until we've reached that goal I won't tell people to switch over to AddmusicM. Words are cool, but if you really want people to switch over to a "better" Addmusic you need more than that, you need actions.

Totally agree that words aren't going to change the average hacker's view. Baiting people with an easier to use addmusic isn't the only way though. The biggest influence on the way hacks are made on this site are the hack submission guidelines. So far, only kaizo hacks have continued to be made and popular in defiance of those rules.

Stop accepting broken hacks and broken addmusics will stop being used.

Also, I'm not trying to get people to use addmusicM (not until it's fixed anyway). Romi's without -se works as far as I know, and I think that's quite reasonable.

Originally posted by Vaiyt
Originally posted by Kaijyuu

Who's more snotty, the artist that ignores a blatant flaw in their work, or the artist that ignores art with blatant flaws?

Failed analogy. I'm not arguing that the current hacks are perfect as they are. Next.

Analogy...? I'm being quite literal there. I'm saying that people who ignore this music issue are ignoring a blatant flaw in their work and that that is "snotty." I'm not talking about visual art or anything. Also, I said blatant, not minor, so I'm not talking about perfection either.
Originally posted by HuFlungPumpkins
There is a reason it is 99% accurate, not 100% accurate. Just because it isn't perfect doesn't mean it's not a better alternative to one that has many more times the bugs BSNES does.

I guess I should have clarified my comment further. As I said, I realize bsnes is the best option in terms of accuracy. However, it's not perfect, and combine that with accuracy =/= user-friendliness and you already have alienated several casual ROM hackers/emulators.

Originally posted by HuFlungPumpkins
Originally posted by Andy_K_250
or just don't care (90 percent of the userbase, at least), BSNES is not a viable option.

That, my friend, is bull crap. You don't care about compatibility so it's not a viable option? I don't even think this deserves a sarcastically witty reply...

I do care about compatibility. I stand by my comment that 90 percent of the userbase probably does not. By taking away the main reason for them to switch to bsnes, what do you think that 90 percent of the userbase is going to do? Answer - continue doing what they have been doing and using inaccurate emulators. As the staff, we can do all we can to encourage them to do otherwise, but ultimately nothing is going to change a person's personal preference.

Let's be honest - there are very, very few "outside-of-the-hood" differences between how the various emulators emulate games, so much of their use comes down to personal preference as far as features and the GUI go, or plain stubbornness to change to a different program.

Essentially, from my point of view, there's really only three types of people who use bsnes at this time:

1. People who want to ensure their ROM's accuracy on actual hardware without using actual hardware. These people are likely to use one or more emulators in addition to bsnes.

2. The people who are always on the curve of new software developments who are just using this emulator because it happens to be the newest thing. These people have no particular allegiance to bsnes because they will move onto the next good thing if/when it comes along. If nothing better comes along, they will stick with bsnes because it is "the most advanced."

3. The people who use bsnes because it is "the cool emulator used by cool people." They know it's a good solid emulator for demonstrable reasons, but they also exhibit a quantifiable elitism about their software of choice - much like the common stereotypes of Mac users, Linux supporters, and Matroska video proponents - and will use every opportunity to dog anyone who uses anything else.

All emulators have similar groups of users within their camps, but the other emulators also have the fourth (largest) group of people:

4. Casual users who don't care.

Group 4 happens to also be the same group of people who want a version of AddMusic that can be easily run on a ROM, inserting the majority of most music offered on the site with one command and without lots of little set-up steps. No one wants a program that can only be run on a clean ROM or that requires 10 different checks to ensure that everything is going to work right. I know that the answer to that is "if they can't do it, they shouldn't be hacking," but I'm the type of person who can take the time to follow instructions and I know I don't want an overly convoluted program if it doesn't need to be. Simplicity is often best.

Originally posted by Kaijyuu
And I fully understand most people are going to keep doing whatever they're doing right now, regardless of what I say. The only people I hope to convince are the hack moderators/admins, since I assume they're at least browsing this thread once in a while. And since none of them are regularly posting, the only arguments I can rebut are everyone else's.

What exactly are you trying to convince us of? The general opinion still stands that until we have a practical version of AddMusic that is as easy to use as the current breaking versions are, there won't be any changes in SNES-accuracy music requirements. In the meantime, we're happy to promote accuracy for accuracy's sake. If there's something else we're missing, please make it clear.

[?] Miscellaneous Helpful Hints
If I moderated your hack, there was apparently a 90 percent chance it was rejected.
Originally posted by Kaijyuu
Romi's without -se works as far as I know


Ah, I forgot about that option. Yeah, I guess that would be a reasonable alternative. The only thing that would get a little bit harder would be patching more.asm (-se did that automatically), but oh well. Just another reason for someone with knowledge of music to make a working tool. :P
Feel free to visit my website/blog - it's updated rarely, but it looks pretty cool!
Can anyone tell me exactly what -se does? I've been using Romi's addmusic for a while now, and I never heard of -se until this topic (not that I'll ever use it if it breaks hacks on the real SNES). (I manually patched MORE.asm because one of the first addmusic files I inserted said it required it.)

Anyway, I honestly don't care that much about compatibility with the real SNES... well, I care about it from a theoretical standpoint (who doesn't), but there's not much point practically when quite a large majority of people do not. I'm trying to support the viewpoints of the people who do care about it, though, since they're the ones who will continue to speak up if nothing is being done.

I'd like to re-suggest my proposal... The people who don't care (which I say is more like 95%, not 90%) can continue not to care. And an increase in concern for compatibility is likely to happen over the long term, which should be more satisfying to those who are concerned than not making any change at all. Meanwhile, everyone who prefers one emulator or another can save a bit of time as well, meaning that it wouldn't be a major change made for only a few people. (The only real problem I see is getting the system started in the first place...)

(By the way, compatibility with Snes9x matters more to me, as unless a hack runs on at least one version of Snes9x, you won't be seeing any TASes of it-- at least not by the good TASers that use frame advance. (See how people's opinions vary widely?))

Anyway, the one thing I see here that just about everyone agrees on is that there needs to be an easier-to-use addmusic.


(Also, 501st post. Yay? Will it lead to anything conclusive? Who knows?)

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Advynia: a Yoshi's Island editor - Alyssa's Unlikely Trap demo 3
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What exactly are you trying to convince us of?

That continuing to accept broken hacks is a bad thing.

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No one wants a program that can only be run on a clean ROM or that requires 10 different checks to ensure that everything is going to work right. I know that the answer to that is "if they can't do it, they shouldn't be hacking," but I'm the type of person who can take the time to follow instructions and I know I don't want an overly convoluted program if it doesn't need to be. Simplicity is often best.

Simplicity's great and all, but what's really important is what the tool does. An easy to use program that doesn't work right is inferior to a difficult but working program, period.

I wouldn't care so much if this were a minor glitch we're talking about, like crackling sound effects or something, but this is a full SPC crash. No sound. Frozen game as soon as a level or overworld loads. Unplayable hack.



Anywho, I expect you guys to do what you think is best, not what the majority - or a minorty - wants. If you've got reasons other than "because I/most people don't care" then I'll be glad to hear them.
Originally posted by Luigi'sKingdom
Who freaking cares if it's able to play on the actual SNES, seriously, Most people are fine with using an emulator, no matter what emulator it is, sure, a rom might not be compatible with a certain emulator, just get over it download all three, I myself already have two, but the snesx9 or whatever is so I can play my YI stuff, and the zsnes, that is for my hack testing, and It does not suck, it does a fine job. Let's just end it so people, like us, who come on this site to play rom hacks and such, don't get freaked out about this thread.


You are pretty naive if you think that people are going to download a particular emulator just to play your hack. Once Zsnes 2 comes out (whenever that is), no one is going to go back to an older version just to play a hack.

I made this thread because I do care about this, so your statement that "no one cares" is certainly not true. I also made this thread as a warning that when emulators get updated, these broken hacks will stop working, and that you will have a flood of people complaining that they do not work. Sure, the people on this board might know about the limitations, but if you want to have a wide audience for your hacks, you need to ensure that they will continue to be compatible in the future. After all, don't you want your hack to be played by a wide audience? SNES flash carts are getting popular, and people want things like these hacks to play on them. But when the highest rated SMW hacks break on real hardware, it will turn them off. Hacks that are broken should not be considered "featured", they should be fixed.
Originally posted by badinsults
Originally posted by Luigi'sKingdom
Who freaking cares if it's able to play on the actual SNES, seriously, Most people are fine with using an emulator, no matter what emulator it is, sure, a rom might not be compatible with a certain emulator, just get over it download all three, I myself already have two, but the snesx9 or whatever is so I can play my YI stuff, and the zsnes, that is for my hack testing, and It does not suck, it does a fine job. Let's just end it so people, like us, who come on this site to play rom hacks and such, don't get freaked out about this thread.


You are pretty naive if you think that people are going to download a particular emulator just to play your hack. Once Zsnes 2 comes out (whenever that is), no one is going to go back to an older version just to play a hack.

I made this thread because I do care about this, so your statement that "no one cares" is certainly not true. I also made this thread as a warning that when emulators get updated, these broken hacks will stop working, and that you will have a flood of people complaining that they do not work. Sure, the people on this board might know about the limitations, but if you want to have a wide audience for your hacks, you need to ensure that they will continue to be compatible in the future. After all, don't you want your hack to be played by a wide audience? SNES flash carts are getting popular, and people want things like these hacks to play on them. But when the highest rated SMW hacks break on real hardware, it will turn them off. Hacks that are broken should not be considered "featured", they should be fixed.


*ahem* look at my posts above, I'm trying to resolve the issue now.

EDIT: Ah, yes, but I don't even use the -se commaand so I'll be fine there
It's weird you have inclusive pronouns, but still only have the binary options for gender. Where is Non-Binary, Agender, etc? Not a gripe. Just curious lmao.
Are you guys sure that the -se command is the only thing that glitches (not necessarily crashes) on real hardware? I thought there was a problem with custom music being used in the same level as sound effects with echo, or something like that.

Originally posted by Kaijyuu
You really want those sound effects :P

Yes, yes I do.

Originally posted by Kaijyuu
Even if addmusicM doesn't support them, I doubt they'll be too hard to implement with some knowledge of SPC coding.

Yeah, that's what Kil said...it just seems like it would be too easy to screw something up, though. (For one thing, where would the data even go? I was under the impression that AddmusicM a) didn't put anything in a specific place and b) entirely filled the ARAM.) Also, here we find the biggest problem with SPC coding: lack of resources. It's not that SPC-700 assembly is hard, it's just such a freaking pain to figure out anything with it because it's so obscure. I mean, if the RAM map, ROM map, and all.log had all been nonexistent when I started learning plain old 65816 ASM, I highly doubt I would have wanted to continue with it.

By the way, does anyone know what the heck the stuff about "channels #9-#12" in AddmusicM is?

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I'm working on a hack! Check it out here. Progress: 64/95 levels.
Originally posted by Kaijyuu
I personally would stop using LM and would yell at fusoya to fix the bug.


That's not nice, Fusoya has worked hard in making that program, he's a human being and not somebody you can yell just because you found a bug. Show some respect for the man. =/

Just report any bugs without whining. In fact, that reminds me of this quote:

Originally posted by Ayosuf
Whining about it to me isn't going to accomplish anything.


There's a difference between informing and whining. <_<

Originally posted by Kaijyuu
And I fully understand most people are going to keep doing whatever they're doing right now, regardless of what I say.


Just because you said something right now isn't going to have an inmediate effect instantly. It takes time.

If you want them to make bug-free hacks that work perfectly in accurate emulators then you have to make reasonable, convincing arguments with evidence and without whining.

Let's not forget that the staff can enforce the rules and remove any hacks that have game breaking bugs. They are an example.

This isn't the first time that I heard about incompatibility issues. A few years back, I heard that d4s hdma kit didn't work on a real SNES because of the heavy modifications it did and it required a clean rom in order to get hdma effects and not to mention that it changed some of the sprites' priority. After a staff discussion, they decided to remove it because at that time they found another way to get hdma effects in a modified rom without restarting from scratch or transfering everything. So far, nobody complained about this change in public. <_<

If any of you find the SNES limitations to be frustrating, then look at this:

Originally posted by Ayosuf
If reverse engineering is something you don't enjoy, you might want to consider a different hobby than ROM hacking. ;)


Another option to SMW hacking would be to recreate the entire game from scratch so it can be played and edited on computers without the trouble of emulation and any of the SNES limitations. There are tools that can accomplish that but it takes time and dedication.