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¿ Kaizo Hack Submission Rules ?
Forum Index - SMW Hacking - Works in Progress - Kaizo Hacks - ¿ Kaizo Hack Submission Rules ?
Pages: « 1 2 »
So it had been considered whether Kaizo Hacks should have rules or not in this forum. Well, not in this forum per-say, since as with Hack Discussion, you can make a thread for any kind of hack you want, you may just not be able to submit it. I mean for if we are to have a showcase thread of completed hacks (and maybe demos), what would the quality requirements be for allowing them? After all, we don't want junk to be allowed.

Also note that the older "classic" and "famous" hacks, such as the original Kaizos and Item Abuse and the other famous ones, will be let through on the same "Legacy" policy that SMWC has for it's own hacks: Certain hacks are let through on exception due to their age (were made before the guidelines) and how well known they were.

I want you all to collaborate on a set of *guidelines*, not *rules*, for allowing Kaizo hacks to be accepted in the proper location. Remember, guidelines are more lenient than rules, and therefore hacks can be let through, rather than stopped simply for containing one single banned element.

(also I suppose bsnes/SNES playability is null for compatibility since Kaizo hacks are unplayable on real hardware anyways)

World Community Grid: Thread | Team
 
Kaizo

1. DIfficulty
1. The Kaizo Hack should be possible.
  • This means no pit hacks.
  • Nothing that involves hard to do frame perfect glitches.
    • This involves walljumps, and alternating B and A every other frame, such as under a smasher.
    • This does not involve P-Switch jumps that involve multiple midair jumping, or entering doors midair.
  • Shell jumps are not very hard to do, but multi-shell jumps in midair, is a very difficult thing.
    • This is, throwing a shell up, a bit off the the right. Grabbing a second shell, and hitting the first one with Mario, making it spin. Hitting the first shell, bouncing off of it, throwing the second one, and landing on the second one.
    • An example of the above can be found here at about 1:47


2. The Kaizo Hack should not be too easy.
  • In case you are wondering, precision jumping every five seconds is not hard at all.
  • Something to the equal difficulty of ASMT or the VIP series is not very much Kaizo. Stay away from making it that tier of difficulty. Make it harder.


3. Not all things are hard to perform.
  • This refers to shell jumps and Yoshi jumps.
    • You should not abuse these, as it is just plain annoying to do it every 2 minutes.
    • They should be used in a more difficult way. Like between death blocks or something.
  • Don't make the glitches impossible to do.
    • This also corresponds to rule 1B, about frame perfect glitches.


4. General Playability.
  • Remember the original Kaizo? It was actually playable without the usage of Save States. So your hack should fit in the difficulty range of the original Kaizo. This corresponds to rule 1.
  • Is it fun?
    • Sure, Kaizo Hacks are hard. But that is what makes them fun. If it is a blatant edit, or its just generally to linear, it will not be accepted.
  • Glitches that are a real pain to perform will also be denied.
    • Such as entering a door midair with a P-Switch, or a key.
    • Doing the above takes a lot of time, and is very hard.


2. Graphics
1. Just because its a Kaizo hack, doesn't mean you should make it unappealing.
  • Things such as floating munchers and cutoff are still unappealing to the eye.
    • The hack will not get accepted if there is continual "ugliness".
      • Though, if used in a "clever" way, floating munchers will be accepted.


2. General Graphics
  • Note that Glitched Graphics are still very, very bad. This may seem like a joke, "Glitched graphics bad in a Kaizo hack? Why not?
    • This goes with rule 2.1.A, it is still unappealing.


3. Distraction
  • Having awesome graphics in a hack can be a bit of a distraction. I mean distraction in a good way, as it can make the level a bit harder than it actually is.
  • Just please don't make the graphics have eye-searing palettes


3. Misc. Tips and Tricks
1. Just because its a Kaizo hack, that doesn't mean bad grammar is acceptable.
  • Get a person that is good with grammar to beta test your hack and proofread your text.


2. Death traps.
  • This is Kaizo, how can you not make death traps? But seriously, they are cheap and stupid. It is not a removal reason, but most people would stay away from it.
  • Kaizo is far more than death traps, hacks that consist mainly of cheap deaths are unlikely to be played


3. Check for breaks.
  • Keep in mind that because this is a hard hack, people will look for breaks to skip a whole segment. Make sure that the hack does not have any easy-to-do breaks. Get help from beta testers with a sharp eye and skill to help you find breaks.


4. Music
  • Most Kaizo hackers tend to not insert Custom Music into their hack. Now this is not a thing that would get your hack removed, but it would be encouraged.


5. OverWorlds
  • Overworlds are a very nice addition to hacks. If you don't have an overworld change, don't sweat it. Not having an edited overworld is not a removal reason. Its just nice to have. Edited overworlds are heavily encouraged to include in your hack


6. Common Sense and Other Misc. Info
  • ROM files, broken Patches, and screwed up games will be denied instantly.
    • Submitting a ROM file will get you an instant 72 hour ban.
  • Continual submissions with nothing fixed from the last removal will result in a 24 hour ban.
  • Screenshots must be valid.
    • This means that it must have an image of actual gameplay.
    • The hack will be removed if the screenshots are "not valid" or there is only a screenshot of the title screen.
      • To take a valid screenshot in ZSNES, press F1 while you are in the hack and choose save screenshot.
  • The hack must be at least 15-20 minutes playthrough, at the least. This goes in accordance to the difficulty rule.




These are the first things that came to mind while I was discussing this with mockingod, perhaps this list can be used to base guidelines on.

--------------------
Of course you should fight fire with fire, you should fight everything with fire.

Oooh look at my userbar!


Sadistic Designer - testing Pit without tools.
@ 3-3 : really? is that a removal reason?
I mean being able to break a hack is a privalige! (maybe for silly breaks like in my latest level it could be a removal reason)

--------------------
u r lay out is remove
Kaizo hacks are supposed to be fun and hard. Easily breakable Kaizo hacks are no longer hard, right?

Note: the keyword is 'easily'. That line is mainly there to remind people to check for breaks, as this is a lot more important in Kaizo hacks than in other hacks.

--------------------
Of course you should fight fire with fire, you should fight everything with fire.

Oooh look at my userbar!


Sadistic Designer - testing Pit without tools.
3-3 is not a removal reason, its more of a tip. Also sadistic you stole my gold. :<

Breakable Kaizo hacks, you break the hack, you skip a really hard part. Whats the fun in skipping hard?

I also want to propose that there be rules for Normal Kaizo, Harder than Kaizo, and Pit.

The Normal Kaizo rules can be seen above, the Harder than Kaizo rules are basically the same rules, except that it allows more harder things to be done, such as entering a door midair with a key or a p switch. The Pit, well thats pretty much self explanatory. Pit is basically "anything goes", except it must be possible.

I took the Kaizo list and edited it. Don't worry, the Pit one will start from scratch, minus the GFX, Overworld, and Music part.

Harder than Kaizo

1. DIfficulty
1. The Kaizo Hack should be possible.
  • This means no pit hacks.
  • Nothing that involves hard to do frame perfect glitches.
    • Walljumps are still not allowed, because if a person plays the hack at full speed, its more of a luck thing.
    • This does not involve P-Switch jumps that involve multiple midair jumping, or entering doors midair.


2. The Kaizo Hack should not be too easy.
  • In case you are wondering, precision jumping every five seconds is not hard at all.
  • Something to the equal difficulty of ASMT or the VIP series is not very much Kaizo. Stay away from making it that tier of difficulty. Make it harder.


3. Not all things are hard to perform.
  • This refers to shell jumps and Yoshi jumps.
    • You should not abuse these, as it is just plain annoying to do it every 2 minutes.
    • They should be used in a more difficult way. Like between death blocks or something.
  • Don't make the glitches impossible to do.
    • This also corresponds to rule 1B, about frame perfect glitches.


4. General Playability.
  • Remember the original Kaizo? It was actually playable without the usage of Save States. This is Harder than Kaizo, so if its not possible without Save States, don't sweat it. Just make it still possible without slowdown. This corresponds to rule 1.
  • Is it fun?
    • Sure, Kaizo Hacks are hard. But that is what makes them fun. If it is a blatant edit, or its just generally to linear, it will not be accepted.
  • Not all hard glitches or tricks will be denied.
    • Such as entering a door midair with a P-Switch, or a key.
    • Doing the above is a pain, but it still is very possible to do in real time.


2. Graphics
1. Just because its a Kaizo hack, doesn't mean you should make it unappealing.
  • Things such as floating munchers and cutoff are still unappealing to the eye.
    • The hack will not get accepted if there is continual "ugliness".
      • Though, if used in a "clever" way, floating munchers will be accepted.


2. General Graphics
  • Note that Glitched Graphics are still very, very bad. This may seem like a joke, "Glitched graphics bad in a Kaizo hack? Why not?
    • This goes with rule 2.1.A, it is still unappealing.


3. Distraction
  • Having awesome graphics in a hack can be a bit of a distraction. I mean distraction in a good way, as it can make the level a bit harder than it actually is.
  • Just please don't make the graphics have eye-searing palettes


3. Misc. Tips and Tricks
1. Just because its a Kaizo hack, that doesn't mean bad grammar is acceptable.
  • Get a person that is good with grammar to beta test your hack and proofread your text.


2. Death traps.
  • This is Kaizo, how can you not make death traps? But seriously, they are cheap and stupid. It is not a removal reason, but most people would stay away from it.
  • Kaizo is far more than death traps, hacks that consist mainly of cheap deaths are unlikely to be played


3. Check for breaks.
  • Keep in mind that because this is a hard hack, people will look for breaks to skip a whole segment. Make sure that the hack does not have any easy-to-do breaks. Get help from beta testers with a sharp eye and skill to help you find breaks.


4. Music
  • Most Kaizo hackers tend to not insert Custom Music into their hack. Now this is not a thing that would get your hack removed, but it would be encouraged.


5. OverWorlds
  • Overworlds are a very nice addition to hacks. If you don't have an overworld change, don't sweat it. Not having an edited overworld is not a removal reason. Its just nice to have. Edited overworlds are heavily encouraged to include in your hack


6. Common Sense and Other Misc. Info
  • ROM files, broken Patches, and screwed up games will be denied instantly.
    • Submitting a ROM file will get you an instant 72 hour ban.
  • Continual submissions with nothing fixed from the last removal will result in a 24 hour ban.
  • Screenshots must be valid.
    • This means that it must have an image of actual gameplay.
    • The hack will be removed if the screenshots are "not valid" or there is only a screenshot of the title screen.
      • To take a valid screenshot in ZSNES, press F1 while you are in the hack and choose save screenshot.
  • The hack must be at least 15-20 minutes playthrough, at the least. This goes in accordance to the difficulty rule.
Originally posted by MGOD|Scary
Pit is basically "anything goes", except it must be possible, except with reactions quicker then any human being can have unless slowdown's being used.


Fixed.

--------------------
Good fucking bye.
Pit allows (and was made especially for) using traps that require faster reactions than any human being. Pit is the collection of very hardest hacks possible, barely doable with massive slowdown and often requiring Frame Advance. No need for human reactions.

--------------------
Of course you should fight fire with fire, you should fight everything with fire.

Oooh look at my userbar!


Sadistic Designer - testing Pit without tools.
Originally posted by Lavenderat
Originally posted by MGOD|Scary
Pit is basically "anything goes", except it must be possible, except with reactions quicker then any human being can have unless slowdown's being used.


Fixed.


except it must be possible

Its the exact same. ]:[
Originally posted by MGOD|Scary
]:[


these emotes keep on making me think i am the only one with a dirty mind in this forum :S

anyways cant there be some sort of guideline for pits?

--------------------
u r lay out is remove
I just made it. More copying stuff yay.

Pit

1. DIfficulty
1. Pit hack is basically "anything goes."
  • But please note that the Pit hack must be possible with extreme slowdown, frame advance, and the usage of extreme glitches.


2. The Pit should not be too easy.
  • In case you are wondering, just walljumping every 5 seconds isn't hard at all. Its boring.
  • Something to the equal difficulty of Kaizo Mario 1 is too easy, and its possible without save states, make it way harder than that.


3. Not all things are hard to perform.
  • This refers to shell jumps and Yoshi jumps.
    • You should not abuse these, as it is just plain annoying to do it every 2 minutes.
    • They should be used in a more difficult way. Like between a lot death blocks or something.


4. General Playability.
  • Remember the original Kaizo? It was actually playable without the usage of Save States. This is pit, its anything goes. You can make it 100x harder than the original Kaizo, just make it possible.
  • Is it fun?
    • Sure, Pit Hacks are extremely hard. But that is what makes them fun. If it is a blatant edit, or its just generally to linear, it will not be accepted.
  • Glitches will not be denied.
    • These glitches refer to walljumps, multi P jumps and more.


2. Graphics
1. Just because its a Pit hack, doesn't mean you should make it unappealing.
  • Things such as floating munchers and cutoff are still unappealing to the eye.
    • The hack will not get accepted if there is continual "ugliness".
      • Suggested: Change the muncher graphics to a red X square.


2. General Graphics
  • Note that Glitched Graphics are still very, very bad. This may seem like a joke, "Glitched graphics bad in a Pit hack? Why not?
    • This goes with rule 2.1.A, it is still unappealing.


3. Distraction
  • Having awesome graphics in a hack can be a bit of a distraction. I mean distraction in a good way, as it can make the level a bit harder than it actually is.
  • Just please don't make the graphics have eye-searing palettes.


3. Misc. Tips and Tricks
1. Just because its a Pit hack, that doesn't mean bad grammar is acceptable.
  • Get a person that is good with grammar to beta test your hack and proofread your text.


2. Death traps.
  • This is Pit, how can you not make death traps? But seriously, they are cheap and stupid. It is not a removal reason, but most people would stay away from it.
  • Pit hacks are expected a lot of deaths. Adding onto the death counter with death traps is what is going to make your hack get "taken a rest" on faster.


3. Check for breaks.
  • Keep in mind that because this is a hard hack, people will look for breaks to skip a whole segment. Make sure that the hack does not have any easy-to-do breaks. Get help from beta testers with a sharp eye and skill to help you find breaks.


4. Music
  • Most Kaizo hackers tend to not insert Custom Music into their hack. Now this is not a thing that would get your hack removed, but it would be encouraged.


5. OverWorlds
  • Overworlds are a very nice addition to hacks. If you don't have an overworld change, don't sweat it. Not having an edited overworld is not a removal reason. Its just nice to have. Edited overworlds are heavily encouraged to include in your hack


6. Common Sense and Other Misc. Info
  • ROM files, broken Patches, and screwed up games will be denied instantly.
    • Submitting a ROM file will get you an instant 72 hour ban.
  • Continual submissions with nothing fixed from the last removal will result in a 24 hour ban.
  • Screenshots must be valid.
    • This means that it must have an image of actual gameplay.
    • The hack will be removed if the screenshots are "not valid" or there is only a screenshot of the title screen.
      • To take a valid screenshot in ZSNES, press F1 while you are in the hack and choose save screenshot.
  • The hack must be at least 15-20 minutes playthrough, at the least. This goes in accordance to the difficulty rule.
that was the quickest reply without getting ninja'd ever...

but its nice to see there are rules for them now :)

--------------------
u r lay out is remove
Originally posted by Shadowed Reaper
Originally posted by MGOD|Scary
]:[


these emotes keep on making me think i am the only one with a dirty mind in this forum :S


No you're not :S

--------------------
Your layout has been removed.
Some suggestions:

In Pithacks playtesting and breaktesting is even more important than in Kaizo, so rather than being just a miscellaneous tip it should be an really important rule.

I think a rule should be added about the use of unknown glitches, specifically those that cannot be found in the glitchlist. Most of those glitches should be so obscure that they will only cause TAS'ers to find their effort to be naught after a while. In Pit you should hint for it if you use glitches that are unknown. (Once again in Kaizo this should be a tip, but in Pit it is a must.)

--------------------
Of course you should fight fire with fire, you should fight everything with fire.

Oooh look at my userbar!


Sadistic Designer - testing Pit without tools.
Originally posted by Sadistic Designer
Some suggestions:

In Pithacks playtesting and breaktesting is even more important than in Kaizo, so rather than being just a miscellaneous tip it should be an really important rule.

I think a rule should be added about the use of unknown glitches, specifically those that cannot be found in the glitchlist. Most of those glitches should be so obscure that they will only cause TAS'ers to find their effort to be naught after a while. In Pit you should hint for it if you use glitches that are unknown. (Once again in Kaizo this should be a tip, but in Pit it is a must.)

I agree, since pit IS pushing SMW to its limits I think there should be "complusory" rules for a pit not just tips :)
@leod: I'm so glad :')

--------------------
u r lay out is remove
I think you should organize it like this, with the saying what difficulty each is.

Kaizo: (Very Hard Dfficulty)

List

Pit: (Insane difficulty)

List
again, i agree with the rules.
so it's decided: three categories, right?

i would suggest naming them "[True] Kaizo", "Modern Kaizo" and "Pit", for semi-obvious reasons.
  • True Kaizo (or simply Kaizo) hacks are on par or slightly above below the original Kaizo Worlds, because that's the original idea of kaizo: harder than difficult.
  • Modern Kaizo hacks are what was commonly found in the old kaizo thread towards th end, because the old level of difficulty is simply not enough. the difficulty range being above True Kaizo up until the Kaizo/Pit gray area. ("gray area" referring to stuff like the latter half of Panga's SASH and that new hack that he's making.)
  • Pit hacks being what was discussed above. so, the SMW-engine-limit-pushing, slowdown and/or frame advance hacks. (we should put the "gray area" hacks in this category, too, because they wouldn't necessarily go into modern kaizo out of difficulty level, but meh, whatever)
so yeah.
we are all 😎 but some are more 😎 than others
I'd agree with you, except that Modern Kaizo more than often requires occasional use of slowdown, so your definition of Pit is a little off. Also I don't really like the names as they don't speak for themselves, what's wrong with Kaizo, Hard Kaizo and Pit?

--------------------
Of course you should fight fire with fire, you should fight everything with fire.

Oooh look at my userbar!


Sadistic Designer - testing Pit without tools.
a section for true kaizo isn't really necessary, because pretty much all new hacks are "modern kaizo". of course they would be accepted due to being the originals, like some of the older hacks.
Originally posted by Sadistic Designer
I'd agree with you, except that Modern Kaizo more than often requires occasional use of slowdown, so your definition of Pit is a little off. Also I don't really like the names as they don't speak for themselves, what's wrong with Kaizo, Hard Kaizo and Pit?

i just thought mine sounded cooler. ¯\(°_o)/¯

more seriously, those that would require some slowdown are exactly the gray area hacks i am referring to: SASH, Bowser's Ruins, World of Pain, C|C (being towards the bottom of the gray area), Super Skill World i guess... you can't really call them Pit, as there's no constant requirement of frame advance or extraordinary glitch/timing abuse, but they would fall under the banner of 'hack from hell'.
we are all 😎 but some are more 😎 than others
Pages: « 1 2 »
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