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Improvements, Thoughts, and SMWCP2

I do need to complete it. And it is great, well done to all of you. If we were to do a SMWCP2. I would definately take part in the level design!! I also found the BANZAI BILLS as REGGIE quite funny.
I've played through about 70% of this hack so far. I'm sure what I'm about to write has been said by plenty already, but I'll say it myself.

-Level Design: From what I've seen so far, level design hasn't been anything terrible. However, none of it has been particularly memorable or impressive. So many levels drag on WAY too long and get boring really quickly. The biggest offender would have to be P-Switch and spring board puzzles. I see those used to extend levels unnecessarily by having players carry them from one extreme end of the level to the correct location all the way on the other side, and it simply isn't fun.

For SMWCP2, I'd recommend having more guidance from team leaders for what type of levels to design and what type of gimmicks to include. Just specifying what setting for the level to take place in apparently hasn't fueled a lot of creativity. And I don't think it's unreasonable for team leaders to reject a level or ask for more work to be done on it if they don't feel the quality is up to par.

-Graphics: Graphic choices for the most part are pretty good, but the biggest problem is their inconsistencies. It's really weird seeing a desert level attempting to use vanilla graphics, and then the next level using custom desert graphics. More care should be taken for the next SMWCP, perhaps you can have more graphic artists contribute tilesets or aid level designers in which tilesets they should be using in order to maintain consistency.

-Difficulty: As many of others mentioned, difficulty is very unbalanced. Even though I know most level designers were aware of what world their levels took place in, they still went nuts and made their levels too hard anyway. I don't think team leaders should be afraid to tell designers to rework their levels if the difficulty is not right, and not just to add or remove a few sprites here and there, but to completely rework the level if it just doesn't fit.

Overworld and music, I thought were fine.
Originally posted by Blind Devil
-There's an issue about Pink'n'Purple Path: In the Sky submap, the level appears as a water level, but the level has no water at all. This should be fixed.

Oh boy, how many times have I mentioned that to SNN...

contributive post coming soon


 

Extras



I should have something witty to put here (even if it's just to update dated info), shouldn't I?

Advertising Space

This isn't the thread for that stuff, PM SNN instead.

Can anyone explain why the second half of Football Canyon is completely full of custom enemies that like to get cheap shots on you (with only a vague warning message)? It feels as though someone somehow managed to get a Kaizo level accepted into this hack.

(It took me a whole 5 attempts to pass the first surprise snapping enemy (including realizing that it can appear anywhere, not just where the bones are, and that it's fast enough that you have to lure it out before you pass). Then there are more of them later on... as well as the "helicopter" enemies, which shoot aimed rocks-or-something at you (how are you supposed to know that?) at an unfairly fast rate...)

Look, if you're going to use custom enemies in the first place, make sure to introduce them properly. That is, in ways that people can react fairly to them. Shouldn't this have been caught in beta-testing? Or had every beta-tester played "Cave Story" or whatever game these are from?

(By the way, from the number of complaints I've seen about Football Canyon, I feel like the second half should be completely replaced with something different. The first half is actually pretty creative though... I'm really surprised that they were made by the same person. (Unless the level credit document is incorrect and they weren't made by the same person?))


Also, regarding the lack-of-multiple-midpoints issue that various people have mentioned... why not just add additional midpoints now? It's not like this hack has been shipped to stores or anything else that prevents major additions like that.

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Advynia: a Yoshi's Island editor - Alyssa's Unlikely Trap demo 3
Originally posted by Zeldara109
Look, if you're going to use custom enemies in the first place, make sure to introduce them properly. That is, in ways that people can react fairly to them. Shouldn't this have been caught in beta-testing? Or had every beta-tester played "Cave Story" or whatever game these are from?

Now I gotta ask you something, were enemies like the chuck ever introduced properly in the original SMW?
Were any enemies ever introduced properly in, say, Secret of Mana?

And yes, they both were made by me, though I have to agree that the level ended up way too long and some of the enemies are a bit unfair to dodge.
Your layout has been removed.
I don't know if this has been mentioned so far, but I really didn't like the death theme. I mean it's just the original death theme except in "bad" since some instruments got removed (or changed?). The original one beats this by far.
Feel free to visit my website/blog - it's updated rarely, but it looks pretty cool!
VWF Dialogues Patch must be used for SMWCP2 or death will occur.

Everyone should go to #radbusiness, my epic irc channel, RIGHT NOW!
Layout by the super-mega-awesome Counterfeit! THANKS!
Taking ASM requests! PM me if ya want something, but don't ask for sprites.
Also please install Dropbox It'll help both you and me! :3


Extras



I should have something witty to put here (even if it's just to update dated info), shouldn't I?

Advertising Space

I was under the impression that the Too Bad jingle was going to be "fixed" or updated with the more upbeat one in the Music section. I guess not.

Originally posted by leod
Now I gotta ask you something, were enemies like the chuck ever introduced properly in the original SMW?


I assume the difference here in that enemies such as Critter and Sandcroc require Mario to get really close to them before they attack (and they attack fast, especially Sandcroc), as opposed to enemies such as Charging Chuck, where the range needed before they attack is larger nor are they as fast.

Quote
Were any enemies ever introduced properly in, say, Secret of Mana?


RPGs are a lot different from platformers, especially when you have a lot more health in RPGs to compensate the damage newer enemies take off.

Originally posted by leod
Now I gotta ask you something, were enemies like the chuck ever introduced properly in the original SMW?
Were any enemies ever introduced properly in, say, Secret of Mana?

Does a Chuck ever appear and damage you with no warning at all in the original SMW? You can see the baseballs/footballs/rocks/etc. coming in advance, and have a noticeable amount of time to dodge them (although I have to say footballs can sometimes be annoyingly random).

I've played other SMW hacks that use custom enemies, and although in general I find I dislike custom enemies (mainly because most of them have programming errors), I've never encountered a sudden-ambush enemy before. Something like that has the same impact as an enemy placed above the screen that suddenly falls on you, except you have even less time to react.

By the way, I interpreted the warning about the skulls as a generic "danger ahead" message (I expect there are other people who interpreted it the same way)... then, after being unfairly ambushed by an enemy twice, I interpreted it as an "avoid the skulls" message... leading to being ambushed several more times, since the enemy also appears in the rest of the pit.

(Also, I've never played Secret of Mana, but I'm pretty sure you don't die in 1-3 hits in that game (and many RPGs contain forced damage anyway). Since Mario can take so few hits (in the platformers at least), it's very important for things to be fairly dodgeable.)

Edit:
MrDeePay explained it a bit better than I did. (Is Critter the helicopter enemy?)

(Also, it appears the ninja warning doesn't activate if you've previewed your post after the ninja post was made.)


Another note: Different series have different design philosophies... For example, in the Megaman series, it's pretty common for an enemy to surprise you by jumping out of a pit, knocking you into the pit (if you don't wait for it to appear first). But something equivalent in a Mario game (example: invisible block trap) would be considered unfair.

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Advynia: a Yoshi's Island editor - Alyssa's Unlikely Trap demo 3
I have a question before make a review of the hack: how can i beat toadsworth boss? i cannot hit him in any ways.

My short tentative review: i played the 85% of this hack and i found some things awesome, and other parts boring. Where are the problems with this hack? I think that problems are in people line toughts about the level design. I found that 50% of the levels involve in some way a p-switch or springboard puzzles. After beat 3 or 4 of those puzzles i'm getting boring easily playing the hack. Also i have to say that i really like the long levels, however the long level with springboard or p-switch puzzles were the worst levels in this hack. Another thing that i hate in this hack is the "wild wet castle level":(long level+p-switch+springboard+horrible pallete+boring shell block puzzle+ glitchy sprites (like the ballom with the albatoss bomb)+ bad time limit for the boss= the worst level in the pack, anything was good in this level).

So here is my tentative conclusion about this hack:

The best levels:
·Sanctuary Fortress
·Luluboo's mansion
·Arbiter grounds
·Palace acropolis
·Zephir manor (although i think it needs more midway points)

The worst levels:
·wild wet castle
·chateau of storms
·confusion chambers
·gramen terra
·the p-switch room in the void part of Bowser's castle
·Weaboo manor
·Buried graveyard
·Dark desert night
·Gaijin cave

Suggestions for the next update:
·More midway points for long levels
·Bugfixes (i will PM SNN with some bugs i found in v1.3)

This is all for now... (sorry for my bad english)
There were some levels that I liked, such as Sanctuary Fortress (for the FG replicating a 2D version of the Sanctuary in Metroid Prime 2), not only cuz I'm a Metroid fan, but of the interesting gimick of having to obtain an item in order to "climb the Spider Tracks".

What was more interesting for me was whne you get to the game's secret world... of course granted you get through the pipes level, and beforehand, "buy" a Spacesuit.

If there is ever a plan for SMWCP2, I'll probably give a hand with a level or two. :3


Originally posted by nnn
I have a question before make a review of the hack: how can i beat toadsworth boss? i cannot hit him in any ways.

SPOILER
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Spin jump on the fuzzys 3 times then pick them up and toss
Now Playing:
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I'm Outta Here


I'll share a few of my thoughts:

I'm sorry, but I absolutely hated Zephyr Manor. The expectations it impressed upon the player were... absurd. The level was unbelievably long- I wouldn't be surprized if I were to be told that it was the longest level in the entire hack. The precision
required was ridiculous- you had to plan nearly every movement you made on the cloud platform or whatever that you rode because of the goddamn boos, which is pretty fucking hard when you're on a constantly moving platform in the middle of a maze of spikes. The resources you provided the player with were obscenely insufficient- the level is impossible without the use of savestates. I probably took at least an hour to beat it, and that was with rewinding.

Another thing that I noticed was that toad town was strangely empty, except for the Bar 'n Grill. It looks like it's incomplete- there's a small house that contains a lone coin, but no other treasure exists. Oh, and I believe you forgot to add SNN to the Bar 'n Grill.
I've been seeing a lot of people complaining about "Gramen Terra", but I actually thought it was very good; it's a world 1 level, meaning that you don't have a whole lot to work with, and while the result is, well, a rather boring level to an experienced player of SMW, that very fact makes it the perfect world 1 level. I don't know if I'm getting my point across, but essentially what I'm saying is this: "And So It Begins..." is a good level, but would be very confusing to a new player with its crazy landmasses and that springboard "puzzle." "Gramen Terra," while comparatively simple and boring, is an ideal example of a world 1 level because it is so simple.
I should get a new layout.

Probably won't, though.
There is a reason my "avatar" isn't in the Bar and Grill. Those who have beaten the game fully already know why.

To address some other points:

-The two levels which have caused a lot of controversy were Football Canyon and Zephyr Manor, and I do agree. Zephyr Manor IS very possible without savestates - however, in my savestateless playthrough, I believe it took me the longest of any level in the hack to beat.
-Toad Town is unusually empty aside from two necessary buildings, yes. We had a lot more planned for it, but essentially ran out of room in the ROM to do anything else.
-I can't believe I actually forgot about "Palace Acropolis" in my original review. That was actually one of my favorite levels as well since MrDeePay put so much effort into making the level play out "differently" depending on which state you were in/which switch palaces you had passed/etc. It was like, different each time you went through it. I'd love to see more levels like that in SMWCP2.
I have not beaten this hack yet, so I can't really say what is my favorite and what is my least favorite. If I ever get around to it, I might edit this post. (or make a new one)

I really do not like the difficulty curve in this game. I'm only in world 2 and I'm not really enjoying it. For example, "So It Begins..." and a lot of the grassland levels in the first world are balanced nicely, but the castle pushes it way too far over the limit for the first world. Comparing the 1st castle boss to Iggy Koopa of the original Super Mario World, it easily rivals Bowser. The castle itself has an optional door for 5 Dragon Coins, which is nice, except I don't have nearly enough time to collect them all while carrying things like a springboard/p-switch and et cetera, and it's just annoying to find out you did all that work with 100 seconds left that the door just had a Cape, and not a secret exit or bigger reward. Onto the boss, the spiny boss. This boss takes a few tries to know it's pattern, and when I mean tries I mean deaths, plus doing the castle over. With rewinds or savestates it's much easier, but what if you're playing this on a Wii or SNES hardware? The spiny boss very annoying at the fact you can hardly dodge the fireballs it throws, and in it's second 'rage' form it keeps following you AND shooting the same fireballs at a faster pace. It is possible to beat, it's just too difficult at that point in time.

In world 2, the first level has a puzzle where you need to spin jump off of a Torpedo Ted to get up this land mass, but you have to hold 4 keys at once. Let me explain:

One key to spin jump & keep spin jumping (A button)
One key to keep up with the Torpedo Ted (Y button)
One key to go in the direction of the Torpedo Ted (Right D-pad)
One key to jump high enough at the end to reach the top (Up D-pad)

These are 4 keys to hold at the exact same time, because you have to hold up at the end too. I've tried countless times trying to manipulate it, even on slow-mo, and couldn't do it. Why? Keyboard limitations. Most standard keyboards only allow you to hold 3 keys at once, meaning this puzzle is only possible on a joystick or real hardware.

edit: I found out you can get the key another way, but then why include this in the first place? It makes no sense.

I also have to complain about most of the global graphics. The dolphin in this game is unfinished. The creator only edited one frame of the dolphin, so the dolphin's 'flipper' transforms back to the original SMW one. Rip Van Fish for some reason is a bird, and why would a bird be swimming in the water? Back to the dolphin, he also has a bird beak. I'm not trying to offend anyone here, but the Dry Bones and his lil' cousin guy need to be worked on.
I am part way through the second world and I love this hack.

I currently don't have a favourite level, but the level I hate the most is the Fire Brigade or something along those lines. There is just too many fire sprites.

Things that could be improved are the difficulty spikes.

So far great hack, great sprites and great level designs.
If anyone wants me to test their hacks, PM me and I will test them.
Originally posted by moondigger
but the level I hate the most is the Fire Brigade or something along those lines. There is just too many fire sprites.


...are you sure you're playing the right hack? I can think of a level in world 8 which might fit that criteria, but none in world 2 at all.
Originally posted by Snowshoe
One key to spin jump & keep spin jumping (A button)
One key to keep up with the Torpedo Ted (Y button)
One key to go in the direction of the Torpedo Ted (Right D-pad)
One key to jump high enough at the end to reach the top (Up D-pad)

You do know that holding the "Up" arrow doesn't do anything, right?

Originally posted by Snowshoe
The dolphin in this game is unfinished. The creator only edited one frame of the dolphin, so the dolphin's 'flipper' transforms back to the original SMW one.

Wrong. The dolphin is completely edited, just SNN still hasn't fixed the graphics, despite me (And others) having brought it up numerous times and spelling out exactly how to fix it. (hint hint, nudge nudge)

Originally posted by Snowshoe
Rip Van Fish for some reason is a bird, and why would a bird be swimming in the water?

No idea. Never figured that one out. I think it looks kinda like a puffin, which does swim in the water.

Originally posted by Snowshoe
Back to the dolphin, he also has a bird beak. I'm not trying to offend anyone here, but the Dry Bones and his lil' cousin guy need to be worked on.

The dolphin is a penguin. Hard to tell due to the aforementioned graphic bug...