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Lunar Magic suggestions and discussion (LM v2.52)

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Originally posted by PaperWario
Windows Defender won't stop thinking Lunar Magic is now a Trojan, and it looks like I'm not alone on that. Thankfully I can still use it if I set Windows Defender to just ignore it, but it's still a problem. Hope this gets fixed soon.


And how did you get it to ignore it? Im not getting amy options to do so.
Super Mario World 3: The Koopas Strike Back
Super Mario: Grand Journey
I think I have what might be a bug. Simply put, overworld animations that use multiple slots in order to animate at 15+ fps show up properly in Lunar Magic but don't always show up properly in-game.

test ips

I'm not sure about the technical details about this, but from what I can tell level exanimations start with slot 0/7/10/17 like they should, but what slot overworld exanimations start with is effectively random.
Originally posted by Ladida
any chance of fixing up the 2bpp viewing mode (ctrl shift f7)? if FG1 contains a 4kb file with 2bpp graphics, then ideally the first 2kb would show up in FG1 and the second would appear where FG2 is (cuz that'll happen ingame). but instead whatever is written into FG2 will overwrite what should go into FG2, which isnt how it'll show up ingame. also, in the level editor (not the map16) the palettes are pulled as if they were still 4bpp


I believe that mode was originally added in case one wanted to edit the title screen and some other things in the Map16 editor. That was back before the overworld editor had its own new 8x8 tile selector. It wasn't really meant to mimic what the game would do in a level. Are you planning to actually have 2bpp levels?

Originally posted by Coolmario
Can we have a feature that allows levels to activate a specific event set by the user when the player found a secret exit, instead of automatically activating the event after the normal exit. That way, we won't have to redo every event we made after the secret exit event that you mistakenly forgot to do.


That's really not much different than just changing the level to use some other event that has event+1 available too. The only time it'd be an issue is if you're nearly out of events.

Originally posted by RZ1
has anyone had the issue where windows 10 wont let you download lunar magic because it is considering it malicious software?


False positives should be reported to your virus scanner vendor. For Microsoft, that would be here.

Originally posted by Noivern
I think I have what might be a bug. Simply put, overworld animations that use multiple slots in order to animate at 15+ fps show up properly in Lunar Magic but don't always show up properly in-game.

test ips

I'm not sure about the technical details about this, but from what I can tell level exanimations start with slot 0/7/10/17 like they should, but what slot overworld exanimations start with is effectively random.


I do seem to recall the overworld in the original game having this problem... you can see the effect with Nintendo's own waterfall animation when it doesn't consistently match up with the bottom tile.

You can try clearing $13/$14 on overworld load to see if that fixes it. Might be something I'll have to add to LM.
Originally posted by FuSoYa
I believe that mode was originally added in case one wanted to edit the title screen and some other things in the Map16 editor. That was back before the overworld editor had its own new 8x8 tile selector. It wasn't really meant to mimic what the game would do in a level. Are you planning to actually have 2bpp levels?

yeah, thats the idea. it works/displays fine if you stick to FG1, but thats it pretty much.
I would not try to mess with antivirus settings like suggested by people here.

We can never be 100% sure anything is a false positive under any circumstance.
Being able to export and import overworlds, just like what you can do with levels.
BANANA SLAMMA.
Originally posted by Pixel-Gon
Being able to export and import overworlds, just like what you can do with levels.


You caaaaan! Open OW editor in hack you want export OW from, then open another rom you want import into and edit something in OW editor. Save and you'll get same OW.


That's not the same as actually exporting an Overworld to a proper file to re-import anywhere else at any point. It's honestly a feature that's really needed, but FuSoYa never got around to it for some reason.
Your layout has been removed.
Agreeing with leod. Porting overworlds is possible, but only manually, which means you need to set all GFX, export and reimport all palettes, remake all the animation if you have some... which is a long and tedious process (trust me, I've done it more than one time). I've never said it before but I do support the idea of an actual quick export/import method wholly.

Also @RussianMan, Pixel-Gon explicitly told "just like what you can do with levels." lol
Originally posted by Path
@RussianMan


But it's possible anyways. Yeah, easier way of doing that won't hurt.


May I request a 16x16 tile mode for the Layer 3 editor?

----------------

I'm working on a hack! Check it out here.
While we're suggesting things, I'd like to be able to export/import exanimations (either singular or all animations) to a file. Porting exanimations is even more tedious than porting overworlds.
Originally posted by Ladida
yeah, thats the idea. it works/displays fine if you stick to FG1, but thats it pretty much.


I suppose I could look into adding an alternate mode for it, as the way the current mode loads GFX files might still be useful for the odd thing here and there.

Originally posted by leod
That's not the same as actually exporting an Overworld to a proper file to re-import anywhere else at any point. It's honestly a feature that's really needed, but FuSoYa never got around to it for some reason.


The end result is in fact the same, hence it's never really been needed.

Originally posted by Mathos
Agreeing with leod. Porting overworlds is possible, but only manually, which means you need to set all GFX, export and reimport all palettes, remake all the animation if you have some... which is a long and tedious process (trust me, I've done it more than one time).


...eh? I don't know what strange process you've been following, but none of that is required. The only exception might be for shared palettes, but those wouldn't normally be stored in an overworld file anyway.

Originally posted by Noivern
While we're suggesting things, I'd like to be able to export/import exanimations (either singular or all animations) to a file. Porting exanimations is even more tedious than porting overworlds.


It's a button click to copy all global animations to the clipboard and another click to paste into another ROM. While level ExAnimations can be done the same way, they're already carried within mwl files.

(also, for your animation test patch... initializing $13 to 1 got it to show up correctly, but I think I'll tweak LM's overworld ExAnimation ASM for the next version to implement a more reliable fix)

Originally posted by imamelia
May I request a 16x16 tile mode for the Layer 3 editor?


There are no plans for that currently.
Well, I did the usual Ctrl+shift+pgdn to view internal sprite data for how LM sees sprites, go into the 8x8 tile selector, then this:


From what I remember about LM was how it started as an editor for Sailor Moon and eventually became the LM we know today but how did this get overlooked after so many revisions?
Hi, I'm a signature!
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Originally posted by FuSoYa
Originally posted by leod
That's not the same as actually exporting an Overworld to a proper file to re-import anywhere else at any point. It's honestly a feature that's really needed, but FuSoYa never got around to it for some reason.

The end result is in fact the same, hence it's never really been needed.


Yes, a method already exists. But it's not at all intuitive, very user-unfriendly, and easy to mess up (if you open the ROMs in the wrong order when doing it, you lost your overworld).


Originally posted by FuSoYa
Originally posted by Noivern
While we're suggesting things, I'd like to be able to export/import exanimations (either singular or all animations) to a file. Porting exanimations is even more tedious than porting overworlds.

It's a button click to copy all global animations to the clipboard and another click to paste into another ROM. While level ExAnimations can be done the same way, they're already carried within mwl files.


Most of the time, it would be basically the same: open one ROM and save to file, open the second ROM and load from file. There are two situations where saving global animations to a file is better than the current method.

  • It makes porting to a new ROM easier. You can save global animations to a file and you never have to edit that file unless you edit the animations. When you port to a new ROM, instead of opening up two copies of Lunar Magic, opening the global exanimation dialog in each, and copypasting, you can open one copy of Lunar Magic and insert from file.
  • Submitting graphics with global animations (level or overworld) to the graphics section is cleaner and easier for people who download them. It's much easier to insert because you can insert the graphics, animations, and map16 (if needed) from files. The current method requires inserting graphics and map16 from files, but patching a .bps to a clean ROM, then opening two copies of Lunar Magic, etc.

Like with the overworld thing, there's no real reason not to make this easier and more intuitive. "You can already do these" doesn't mean anything if the methods to do so are bad. It's not like they can't ever be improved on.

If you just don't want to do it, that's fine; we can't make you do anything. Just say so. But let's not pretend the methods we already have for these things are good. An easier method to import/export these things to files is very much needed. Just about everything else that can be edited can also be saved to a file; why not standardize these?


Originally posted by FuSoYa
(also, for your animation test patch... initializing $13 to 1 got it to show up correctly, but I think I'll tweak LM's overworld ExAnimation ASM for the next version to implement a more reliable fix)


This is very much appreciated. Thank you!
what are $FA-$FD used for in lm? (also does lm use anything in the $F0-$F9 area?)
Originally posted by Konata Izumi
From what I remember about LM was how it started as an editor for Sailor Moon and eventually became the LM we know today but how did this get overlooked after so many revisions?


It's not really related to Sailor Moon, but it has been noticed before. It's just a message for anyone that looks at the exe in an SNES tile editor. #ab{;)}

Originally posted by Noivern
Yes, a method already exists. But it's not at all intuitive, very user-unfriendly


No one claimed it was intuitive. But it works and only takes a few seconds.

Originally posted by Noivern
and easy to mess up (if you open the ROMs in the wrong order when doing it, you lost your overworld).


I think it'd be rather hard not to notice which overworld you're saving, as you're staring right at it when you save. But even if you somehow did so, that's what the restore feature is for.

Originally posted by Noivern
It makes porting to a new ROM easier. You can save global animations to a file and you never have to edit that file unless you edit the animations. When you port to a new ROM, instead of opening up two copies of Lunar Magic, opening the global exanimation dialog in each, and copypasting, you can open one copy of Lunar Magic and insert from file.


You don't actually need to open 2 copies of LM. Open the first ROM and copy to clipboard, open the second ROM and paste. But either way works.

Originally posted by Noivern
Submitting graphics with global animations (level or overworld) to the graphics section is cleaner and easier for people who download them. It's much easier to insert because you can insert the graphics, animations, and map16 (if needed) from files. The current method requires inserting graphics and map16 from files, but patching a .bps to a clean ROM, then opening two copies of Lunar Magic, etc.


Copy the global slots to local ones in a level, and save to an mwl. Problem solved. Not exactly ideal, but not a big deal either.

Originally posted by Noivern
Like with the overworld thing, there's no real reason not to make this easier and more intuitive.


*sighs* Of course there is. You do a very basic cost/benefit analysis for this sort of thing. When the cost in time to develop and maintain does not justify the gains realized, you question whether it should be done at all.

Having separate files for the overworld or global animations would be a bit more convenient/usable and save a few extra seconds. If you were importing many of those into a ROM, it could be worth it. Except you don't. A ROM only has one overworld, one set of global level examinations, and one set of global overworld animations. Creating separate files for operations that are not carried out very often, for very small gains over existing methods... I'm afraid that gets rather hard to justify spending my time on.

Originally posted by Noivern
If you just don't want to do it, that's fine; we can't make you do anything. Just say so.


By the same token, if you don't understand one of my decisions, that's fine. Just say so. But please don't assume that because you don't personally see the reason for something that there cannot be one. #ab{:P}

Originally posted by Noivern
But let's not pretend the methods we already have for these things are good. An easier method to import/export these things to files is very much needed.


No, it really isn't. I'm sorry, but pretending that wants are needs and failing to fully consider the costs and benefits does not make for a very convincing argument.

Originally posted by Noivern
Just about everything else that can be edited can also be saved to a file; why not standardize these?


Because not everything needs to be a separate file, obviously.

Originally posted by Erik557
what are $FA-$FD used for in lm? (also does lm use anything in the $F0-$F9 area?)


It's for older ASM features. I don't *think* the latter range is currently used, but I can't say for sure without going back and checking over all the files (which I should likely do someday, the area might be useful).
Alright, thanks!
User: Hinalyte / ID: 1553 ~ loading kotori.css
Add the option to see the directory of your ROM in the program's title. That'd make multi-tasking easier and it'd help avoid confusion when you have two ROMs opened!
Originally posted by FuSoYa
Originally posted by Noivern
But let's not pretend the methods we already have for these things are good. An easier method to import/export these things to files is very much needed.

No, it really isn't. I'm sorry, but pretending that wants are needs and failing to fully consider the costs and benefits does not make for a very convincing argument.


This is insulting. You must have missed the long string of users in a row this page supporting saving overworlds to file. How many people need to suggest this feature before you actually consider it? What about this guy, or this guy? How about these fine lads? Clearly we're all just being selfish. If you're claiming we are all only suggesting this because we want it and not because it's something that we think is needed... well I don't know what to say to that.

I will concede that saving global animations isn't really needed because most people don't make custom global animations. But your arguments that saving overworlds to file is not necessary are quite honestly bad. You are simply pretending the benefits do not exist. I've listed two very real situations where these features would be used for the user's benefit, and every other scenario where the current method is replaced with saving/loading from file would take the same amount of time as now. Most people do make custom overworlds, and the current method of porting overworlds is confusing as hell to users who need to use it for the first time and there's no reason it needs to be that way other than you just don't want to fix it.

I understand that you have to weigh costs and benefits, and you know we appreciate everything you do and have done for this community. But this has been suggested for years, and it is insulting to even hint that we only request this feature because we want it, and not because it would be super useful or anything.

There have been some complete bullshit pipe dream suggestions, but this is not one of them.
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