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Lunar Magic suggestions and discussion (LM v2.52)

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Originally posted by Torchkas
We really should be able to customize the appearance of objects.
Using them is very beneficial in terms of space, and right now they're really not usable at all because they'll most likely look like total garbage in the editor.


Level size doesn't seem to have been much of an issue since the Direct Map16 object was upgraded. If it were, I'd just look into implementing one of the other measures I had in mind at one point to reduce it further.
Editing them is also nicer. Like what happens when some of the SMW ledges overlap and change tiles. The way that you can make presets of combinations of tiles. The fact that they run code on level start. These are all very beneficial things and right now they're a pain to deal with. If we would have any way of editing their appearance I think more people would start using them.
Indeed. Even with the new Direct Map16 objects...have you ever taken a look at level 104 or 11E in SMWCP2? Those levels would be half the size they are if custom objects and extended objects were used for most of them. And you don't have to mess with as many objects either; if you want to place one of the large rectangular platforms from SMB3, for instance, you have 9 objects to put in the level and 5 to resize, but that all can be done with only 1 custom object. There are also things that custom objects can do that Direct Map16 objects cannot, such as be affected by item memory or spawn different tiles depending on what they're placed on top of. I have made levels almost entirely out of custom objects before, but I seem to be a notable exception in this.

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I'm working on a hack! Check it out here.
Those levels serve as ideal examples for what I had in mind for possible further Direct Map16 object optimization. The size difference between DM16 and custom extended objects can be reduced to 0 after the first couple uses of the object in the level for fixed size objects like that. Might be worth implementing someday.

As for platforms and other such objects, yes you'll save some space... at the cost of 10x more time spent coding the object, to get the exact same arrangement of tiles you already had. Unless you're desperate for space, it just isn't going to be a worthwhile tradeoff for most people.

For collectibles, Conditional Direct Map16 can serve in that area pretty well in most cases. Though if usage levels there are any indication, there isn't exactly much demand in that area either.
Originally posted by FuSoYa
For collectibles, Conditional Direct Map16 can serve in that area pretty well in most cases. Though if usage levels there are any indication, there isn't exactly much demand in that area either.

I use it! :(


The conditional flags are probably just too difficult to make use of for most people. IIRC there isn't an easy and well known way to hijack the level loading routine to set the flags (the standard levelasm patches do their level initialization hijack after LM's populated the level with objects, I believe). Yeah people could use the flags globally instead of per-level, but eh... that'd bothersome too.
Originally posted by FuSoYa
As for platforms and other such objects, yes you'll save some space... at the cost of 10x more time spent coding the object, to get the exact same arrangement of tiles you already had. Unless you're desperate for space, it just isn't going to be a worthwhile tradeoff for most people.

Unless there are pre-coded custom objects available already. I also often use templates for mine, so for instance, all stretchable rectangles will call the same routine with different indexes.

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I'm working on a hack! Check it out here.
Also, I just thought of an idea how you could do multiple midway points without adding any extra blocks or objects. It was actually inspired by my experiences with YI hacking. In YI, you set the checkpoint number per sublevel, more or less (actually, I believe it depends on the item memory setting). So, for instance, if that were true for the original SMW, you could give Yoshi's Island 1 two checkpoints if you put one in level 105 and one in level 1CB. While I wouldn't really want to have to put every checkpoint in a separate level, there's no reason you couldn't also make them depend on the screen number, so screens 10-1F would be counted separately from 00-0F or something. And all that would require nothing other than a bit of free RAM and hijacking the codes for the midway point object and tile, both of which are documented in the ROM map.

And another thing (probably shouldn't triple-post)...is there any change we could get some sort of VRAM customization/remapping support? It wouldn't have to be selectable in the editor, since it would only really be used by advanced users, but being able to set some addresses in levelinit or something, or at least being able to prevent things like this from being all kinds of glitchy every time a significantly-changed new version of Lunar Magic comes out, would be nice. SMW does not have mirrors for $2107-$210C by default, so it's tough to change anything like that.

----------------

I'm working on a hack! Check it out here.
Originally posted by Kaijyuu
The conditional flags are probably just too difficult to make use of for most people. IIRC there isn't an easy and well known way to hijack the level loading routine to set the flags (the standard levelasm patches do their level initialization hijack after LM's populated the level with objects, I believe). Yeah people could use the flags globally instead of per-level, but eh... that'd bothersome too.


Sounds like an option to turn all the flags on when entering a level from the overworld might be useful...

Originally posted by imamelia
Unless there are pre-coded custom objects available already. I also often use templates for mine, so for instance, all stretchable rectangles will call the same routine with different indexes.


Pre-coded/templates would help, but there's still the setup. If foreground tileset graphics came with their own object definitions to minimize that people might be willing to use them, but otherwise...

Originally posted by imamelia
Also, I just thought of an idea how you could do multiple midway points without adding any extra blocks or objects. And all that would require nothing other than a bit of free RAM and hijacking the codes for the midway point object and tile, both of which are documented in the ROM map.


And require SRAM, unless it's not to be saved. But that's kind of veering into areas better left to an external patch.

Originally posted by imamelia
And another thing (probably shouldn't triple-post)...is there any change we could get some sort of VRAM customization/remapping support? It wouldn't have to be selectable in the editor, since it would only really be used by advanced users, but being able to set some addresses in levelinit or something, or at least being able to prevent things like this from being all kinds of glitchy every time a significantly-changed new version of Lunar Magic comes out, would be nice.


Doubtful it'd be implemented. It may not be a complete solution for that patch anyway, think it does some other things that still require playing in smkdan's patch. Haven't looked at it too closely though.
Dear FuSoYa

Your Lunar Magic 2.30 is cool, adding the layer 3 editor was a good way, but the problem is that the Layer 3 BG editor isn't included. Why Fusoya?

It seems that the Layer 3 editor was inspired in the add-ons made by kipernal during the C3 2014 summer.
Originally posted by Roberto zampari
but the problem is that the Layer 3 BG editor isn't included.

Actually it does exist...

Overworld Editor>File>Layer 3 Level/Submap
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Is it me or the Layer 3's position doesn't update whenever I set its Initial X/Y Position to some different value?

Edit: I think the Tileset Specific is the only one that doesn't update its position when changed; the others were fine.

Edit 2: When you check the second option in the "Advanced bypass settings for Layer 3", then clicked OK and then reopen the dialog, the first setting gets re-enabled (it gets disabled when you check the second option, which is the intended behavior?).
Yeah, changing the initial XY position in the editor does not change the display. It will show up in-game. That and putting the Layer 3 editor in the overworld editor I thought were kind of weird and counterintuitive, but...oh well.

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I'm working on a hack! Check it out here.
The new version's cool, but my edited ROMs don't work now, they just turn black in zsnes.
Originally posted by FuSoYa
Pre-coded/templates would help, but there's still the setup. If foreground tileset graphics came with their own object definitions to minimize that people might be willing to use them, but otherwise...

Well, would it be possible to make them display correctly via a plugin? I don't know what all Lunar Magic allows to be changed that way, but...it's something.

Originally posted by FuSoYa
And require SRAM, unless it's not to be saved. But that's kind of veering into areas better left to an external patch.

Well, if you were only saving one level's flags at a time, you could potentially use $1F2B-$1F2D. Though SMW has plenty of unused SRAM even without expanding it.

Originally posted by FuSoYa
Doubtful it'd be implemented. It may not be a complete solution for that patch anyway, think it does some other things that still require playing in smkdan's patch. Haven't looked at it too closely though.

I would think that in a lot of cases, allowing the VRAM addresses to be changed would just be a matter of replacing immediate values with free RAM addresses. Things like allowing the camera to follow different layers or swapping Layer 1 and Layer 2 I'm not sure about. And aren't $06F9-$0700 unused by both SMW and the patch?

I also have a question about the Layer 3 settings. What values of $212C, $212D, $2130, and $2131 (mirrors $0D9D, $0D9E, $44, and $40) result from the various flags? I would assume that $212C and $212D just take their values from the level mode and the "Move Layer 3 to Subscreen" option (for instance, level mode 00 normally sets them to #$15 and #$02, but the flag would presumably make that #$11 and #$06), while $40 would be similar except with the CGADSUB flag (so it would change the setting for level mode 00 from #$24 to #$20). But if you want a different setting...well, does your Layer 3 initialization code run before or after LevelInitASM? For that matter, does the main code run before or after LevelASM?

Also, FuSoYa, have you ever thought about making another hack? I know Super Demo World was mostly just intended as, well, a demo, but I'd be curious to see what you could come out with now, with all the advancements that have been made since 2003.

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I'm working on a hack! Check it out here.
Mouse gestures seem to be broken. The object isn't being selected when the dialog is closed.
Let's milk Sunny Milk. Then she'll have enough money to fund Sunny Milk Real Estate.
Everypony's digging with a shovel
That changelog is the most engaging piece of prose I've read in weeks. #tb{:j}
Undo buttons, auto-filling with tiles, pasting right from the Map16 editor, two de-facto-additional OW graphics slots, not to mention all the layer 3 functionality you could ever wish for. (Looks like the loss of open-source Layer 3 ExGFX hacks will be a price well worth paying here.)

Thanks for all the work you're doing, FuSoYa! It's incredible what you pulled through over the last... fourteen years.


 
just thought that it'd be nice if, when you do stuff and then undo all the way back, to not have the "save level" icon stay (since you are back to where you started before doing any changes)


but yeah, amazing update #thp{O_O2}


EDIT: BUG probably:

when you check "move layer 3 to subscreen", the cgadsub line greys out. but if you close the window and reopen it, the cgadsub line is no longer grayed out
Increbible update. #thp{O_O1}
Awesome piece of work you did there. Other than the afore mentionen bug about initial layer 3 position not working I was wondering if it was possible to reduce the "fill" shortcut a little.
Ctrl + Alt + Shift + Right Click seems sorta overkill, no?
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Yay Layer 3 support :D

Btw, there's a way to make the Layer 3 BG go behind every layer without affecting the Layer 3 Status Bar? It's the only issue I have now :P
put layer 3 on subscreen with HDMA to keep the top (status bar) on the main screen.
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