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A Defence for the Difficulty Level of an SMWC Production
Forum Index - Sunken Ghost Ship - Old Contests & Events - An SMWC Production - A Defence for the Difficulty Level of an SMWC Production
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So recently I've read a lot of things and seen a lot of people talking about an SMWCP being too hard and I'm hear to back up an SMWCP over the users. Although I haven't played it yet myself (since I promised my fans a blind LP of it) the difficulty is something that our age group of gamers (considering most of the users are teens or older) should be able to cope with. There's no denying the fact that recent real Mario games have been designed in such a way that the younger generation should be able to beat them. Take for example most Mario games on the Wii. They now usually include things such as guides or an overflow of 1ups in order not to frustrate the player. What you have to remember is that these are purely optional and have mainly been implimented for the younger generation.

As I previously stated, an SMWCP wasn't really designed for the younger generation. I surmise the reason most people are finding it so difficult is because in real Mario games they have fallen for the trap of making use of these luxuries and have hense become worse in terms of gaming. A lot of people also refuse to use savestates nowadays. Why this is the case I do not understand. An SMWCP was mearly built over a SNES game. It was not designed to be a SNES game. It was designed to be run on an emulator. And remember when it comes to emulators such as ZSNES, one of the most commonly used functions is the savestate. Savestates are effectivly 1ups and level guides as you can go on ahead and take a look and if you make a mistake you can try again like it didn't happen.

Of course I am not here to tell people how to play the game. But the difficulty is nothing to be complained about considering the fact you have the option of using luxuries to make the game easier for yourself.

If you're one of the none who played through Super Mario Galaxy 2 without collecting a single extra life and are currently struggling through an SMWCP then I will happily put up with your moaning... If not, remember you have the option of a load of extra chances.

Thank you for reading

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Originally posted by marioVSshadow
the difficulty is something that our age group of gamers (considering most of the users are teens or older) should be able to cope with.

Since when did age = skill? I could be 8 and be amazing at games or 18 and be terrible at them. Age has nothing to do with the skill of the players.

Originally posted by marioVSshadow
I surmise the reason most people are finding it so difficult is because in real Mario games they have fallen for the trap of making use of these luxuries and have hense become worse in terms of gaming.

Savestates are much, much easier to get than extra lives. I would think that savestates are what would make us worse at gaming, since they take no effort to use whereas extra lives usually take some effort to get. Most hacks on this site are easily possible without savestates so why should this hack be an exception?

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Originally posted by marioVSshadow
I haven't played it yet myself (since I promised my fans a blind LP of it).


You need to play the hack before you can make comments on its difficulty. Really, aside from a few levels, it isn't that hard.

And doesn't this belong in the SMWCP forum? I'll move it if you guys think so.
Originally posted by marioVSshadow
It was not designed to be a SNES game. It was designed to be run on an emulator.

That's a bullcrap argument. Of course it was designed to be a SNES game, that's why there's that little hint that says "You should be able to beat your own levels without savestates".

Originally posted by marioVSshadow
Savestates are effectivly 1ups and level guides as you can go on ahead and take a look and if you make a mistake you can try again like it didn't happen.

This isn't Braid, this is Mario.

Originally posted by marioVSshadow
But the difficulty is nothing to be complained about considering the fact you have the option of using luxuries to make the game easier for yourself.

What about the people who want to play it on the SNES? Or without savestates? (As I am, as it feels like I should be able to). It's hardly fair to them, I've died well over 300 times, and I'm only on world 3. Granted, most of those lives were spread between 3 levels, so it's not like the whole thing is ridiculously hard, just most of the levels where people tried to really stand out form the crowd.

Originally posted by marioVSshadow
If you're one of the none who played through Super Mario Galaxy 2 without collecting a single extra life and are currently struggling through an SMWCP then I will happily put up with your moaning... If not, remember you have the option of a load of extra chances.

I beat Kaizo Mario savestateless (sans OW savestates), I don't want to go back through that on a legitimate hack.
Originally posted by marioVSshadow
I haven't played it yet myself (since I promised my fans a blind LP of it).


How can you defend it if you haven't even played it? >8(

Now you wonder why sometimes you don't get any respect? =/
TL;DR
But, from what I understand from the first couple of sentances, you are bitching about people who dislike the difficulty. However, you have to realize the difficulty curve is extremely steep (The warp pipe you go into at the beginning sends you to a place with World-4 type difficulty)

Also, >MFW I have a SNES controller with a fastforward, rewind, savestate, LED screen showing you what buttons are being pushed, and 3 reprogramable buttons that can use up to 5 buttons at once. U JELLY?

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To be honest it's not that the game is "hard" perse, but that the difficulty is all over the place. Now, I don't mind this, while others may not agree. It's a collab and some people have ways of making their levels differently than how others would do it. Then, some of the levels end up being too hard for their current location or end up not fitting, so instead of having the author redo said level, they were switched to different places in the hack. I think we should give the complaining about said curve a rest, I mean, this was our first collab, so we tried methods of organization that we now know probably wont cut it next time, so we'll most likely try something else, not to mention organizing a huge one such as this is no easy task. Who knows, maybe if there is a second one there will be a more efficient way to get levels organized and inserted.

If you haven't played it, then how do you know the difficulty?
Anyways, SMWCP isn't hard, im already on world 6 of a savestateless re-play through, there are plenty of places to obtain lives (hint: Toad Town/W1-2) and most levels are designed well enough that you can tell what you should avaid doing.

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Just because it's a hack doesn't mean it's designed to be play on an emulator with savestates. This is a site that supports fair level design, thus not needing to use savestates.

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Good fucking bye.
Originally posted by marioVSshadow
the difficulty is something that our age group of gamers (considering most of the users are teens or older) should be able to cope with.


OH, SO WE YOUNGER PEOPLE APPARENTLY HAVE NO SKILL? I'M ASHAMED!

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Frankly there's three classes I put hacks into. Everyday hacks, purposely hard hacks and joke hacks. If I have to use savestates for an everyday hack, it's not worth playing. I don't understand the mentality of "savestates exist to use them" since you're only using them as an easy way out. With savestates you can create a completely unbalanced hack and back up people attacking it for its difficulty by saying "use savestates if it's too hard!". No hack should require you to use savestates since you're not hacking the game to create the equivalent of a cave shmup, rather to create your own game that's in par with Nintendo's products. I don't recall Nintendo introducing savestates in any of their games either.

Also I'll move this to the SMWCP forum since that place is for discussion about it as well.
Also, younger gamers in general are worse players then older gamers. Not that a 6-year-old gamer can't be awesome at games or a 20-year-old gamer can't be absolutely terrible at games, but still, you're more likely to find that an older gamer is better then a younger gamer.

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Good fucking bye.
Originally posted by GoldenSonic15
but still, you're more likely to find that an older gamer is better then a younger gamer.


WE STILL HAVE SOME SKILL, YOU KNOW!

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Tone down on the caps lock, thanks.

Not sure why the difficulty for this hack needs to be "justified". Everyone and their grandmother is aware that a couple particular levels (you all know them by now) were quite out of place, and that is but a flaw to be corrected in a potential sequel (although they were toned down in v1.4). Regardless, the hack is what it is, and it's made for both young gamers and old gamers alike.

Shrug.
Oh, I didn't know there was ANOTHER version already out. Ah well, I'm good now.

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Linkable Links: Youtube Channel - If any of you want me to do hack videos, I will. I cannot guarantee sound, however.

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To add to the savestate argument: There are people who - like me - don't like playing on the computer and rather use consoles. If it wasn't for the bugs with SNES9X (on which the SNES emulator for Wii is based) I'd be playing this on my Wii. While savestates are available in this emulator they simply take a lot longer to save or load. Therefore it isn't much fun using them. Also the fact that savestates excist is no excuse for bad level design (because most of this game's difficulty IS a result of bad level design).

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The difficulty in a lot of the 'hard' levels comes from not realizing the shortcuts around the area. Zephyr Manor for instance, my least favorite level, in part due to the difficulty combined with the length, is actually not all that hard for me after having beaten it a few more times. And playin' it again on the 1.4 patch puts it almost in check with the other levels. It's still by far the hardest of world 4, but it's not so unjustifiably hard for world 4 anymore!

Some levels are just naturally cruel with no shortcuts, like Rupture in Reality, but hey, if you can't beat it, there's another, easier path to the end of world 8 to help you reach the end.

Pretty much, unless you're looking for 100% completion, you're given a ton of different ways to the end of the game. I'm of the opinion that 100% completion of a game is allowed to be ungodly difficult, it gives completionists something to gloat over when they finally get it. If everything was spoon fed to you, you might as well just be watchin' an interactive movie.
I don't think I've ever once complained about the difficulty of this game. All of my posts concerning it have basically been me being objective and looking at the game from the point of view from a less-skilled, average player.

That being said, I welcome punishing difficulty. My only problem with ASMWCP's difficulty is that it wavers ridiculously, but that's unavoidable in a team hack so I'm rolling with it.
Originally posted by LuigiMania
Originally posted by GoldenSonic15
but still, you're more likely to find that an older gamer is better then a younger gamer.


WE STILL HAVE SOME SKILL, YOU KNOW!


Originally posted by me in the same post
blah blah blah Not that a 6-year-old gamer can't be awesome at games blah blah blah


Somebody didn't get my point.

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Good fucking bye.
Originally posted by GoldenSonic15
Originally posted by LuigiMania
Originally posted by GoldenSonic15
but still, you're more likely to find that an older gamer is better then a younger gamer.


WE STILL HAVE SOME SKILL, YOU KNOW!


Originally posted by me in the same post
blah blah blah Not that a 6-year-old gamer can't be awesome at games blah blah blah


Somebody didn't get my point.


You haven't met my Little bro then.
He's only 7, and since he's grown up with 3 older bro's that are classic gamers, he is pretty darn amazing at Games for his age.

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