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[v0.21] The Title is Irrelevant (January 2 - some words)

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The title is more relevant than ever this time.

That's right guys, it's back and better than ever before! I'm so excited that I'm using exclamation marks! WHOA!!!


it's a download!


Play, rate, review, comment, vote for featured. Don't go forgetting that last part now.

Now get going, guys (and maybe also girls)!

P.S. If you really like this hack, go ahead and throw the userbar into your sig or bio:

And maybe even link it to this thread if you're feeling really lucky.
May we meet again outside the battlefield.
Looks cool, i think i played the first demo, but i don't really remeber.

I'm going to play it tomorrow.
WIP Thread

Progress:
not so NEW progress! (56.25% done) [18/32]

... Why the first level of like every hack has a shooting pipe.
Looks like a good hack and being vanilla-ish makes me want to play it more. The title of the hack is sounds like something I would come up with. Will have to get to playing it tomorrow unfortunately.
While I am truly excited for another demo, I unfortunately procrastinated with my Winter Level. I'll be spending the next day wrapping up the loose ends with it and then I'll give this a whirl.
YES! Me gonna go play it right now. :D
Good fucking bye.
COOL!!!!!


*Downloads*
Okay. How are you supposed to get through Dilapidated Mansion?!
Good fucking bye.
Originally posted by GoldenSonic15
Okay. How are you supposed to get through Dilapidated Mansion?!

In the room with heaps of boxes in it, there should be a P-switch somewhere. Take the P-switch to a very slightly differently coloured box (a little less red, more on the left side on the room), which will be a pipe. From there you can take the P-switch into the room with the Big Boo. Run past it, through the wall into the small area with the dragon coin and press the P-switch.

The next ghost house I make won't be a puzzle level, I can assure you.

EDIT: In case you were wondering, no, there's no secret exit.
May we meet again outside the battlefield.
When you get into the Big Boo room holding the switch, the Big Boo disappears... Not that it's a huge problem, seeing as how you aren't supposed to kill it, but eh.
Good fucking bye.
Green Switch. I found a key in the ouside area, but there doesn't seem to be anything I can do with it...
Good fucking bye.
Take the key back into the room with the switch. I assume since you found the key you found the P-switch and noticed it made a ? block that did nothing appear. Press the P-switch again, put the key on top of the ? block, stand on the key and walk into the wall. You'll be taken to a room that looks the same, but with a working switch.
May we meet again outside the battlefield.
Isn't anyone going to post any kind of feedback?

Anyway, I have a small "gift" for some of you I suppose. For those of you that played Demo 1 and can't be bothered playing all the way back up to where you were to reach all the new content, here I have made a .srm which has all the content that was in the first demo completed already. So now you have access to all the new content without having to play through the old content.

Here is the download for those of you that want it.

So, uh, yeah.

EDIT: I suppose this is a little late for most of you, but I was originally making this only for Blumiere, so eh.
May we meet again outside the battlefield.
Originally posted by Forty2
Isn't anyone going to post any kind of feedback


I'm not completely done playing through the new parts first but if there was any word to best define this hack, it would be 'sublevel'. My favorite part of this hack, by far, is coming across a little pipe and discovering what and who lies in it. There are just so many little sublevels to explore. Thats part of the reason why I haven't posted feedback yet, just looking around, exploring, doing things. Palettes are great for the most part, there are a couple I wasn't crazy for but thats bound to happen.

The challenge was a little bit iffy. While there were tons of areas that offered a legitimate challenge, there were little points here and there that I felt had an unreasonable thing thrown in. There was a point in The Goldfields where I hopped up in a 2 block gap between a row of munchers and a wall. Without any warning - bam! Paragoomba in my face. There are a couple other little sections like that as well.

My favorite level so far has been A Change of Seasons. While this is one of those 'its been done before' gimmicks, you executed it really well and made me really curious what Autumn was really like where I was at. I was able to break the level in a little bit by spinjumping into the terrain at a 1-block tall passage. In terms of visual aspects, no contest: Crystaline Caverns. For some reason, the level reminds me of LEGOs and that makes me happy.

Other minor nitpicks - I felt like there weren't too many coins in the levels. Most levels had only the dragon coins, an odd coin block near a powerup, and maybe some guiding coins to help with blind jumps. I don't know if that was a conscious decision or not. Also, layer priority issues popped up here and there. You may want to fix some of the more glaring issues with that.

But yeah, I think January was a great month for vanilla hacks between this and Back to the Classics. I will probably nominate this for a featured hack (and probably should nominate BttC). And I of course look forward to more level updates in this thread.

Edit: I made it to the end of the Demo. I am still missing 10 exits though, which I'll hopefully find soon. I really did not like Forest Camoflauge. While the visual aspect was great, especially in the second half, it was just a whole lot of visual confusion. I fell through the earth a couple times in the first half because the slopes didn't properly connect in the first half and I didn't know what was a log and what was just background design. Other than that, Lakeside Stroll was pretty nice. I didn't realize how close I was when I made my original post.
When you beat the secret level Walking Up A Hill, you gain access to another pipe leading to another End of Demo submap. You can go to the left of that pipe, and enter an endless bonus game. Fix?

Edit: Oh, and I found some bg glitchinnss when I found the secret of A Change of Seasons. It appears after leaving the cave area.
Good fucking bye.
Originally posted by keckcellent
I'm not completely done playing through the new parts first but if there was any word to best define this hack, it would be 'sublevel'. My favorite part of this hack, by far, is coming across a little pipe and discovering what and who lies in it. There are just so many little sublevels to explore. Thats part of the reason why I haven't posted feedback yet, just looking around, exploring, doing things. Palettes are great for the most part, there are a couple I wasn't crazy for but thats bound to happen.

It's nice to know somebody is actually going through finding and enjoying all the things I put into my work. I'd be willing to take any suggestions you may have about some of the palettes if it really bothers you. (I know there were some palettes I thought I could never get right. Especially the End of Demo levels.)

Originally posted by keckcellent
The challenge was a little bit iffy. While there were tons of areas that offered a legitimate challenge, there were little points here and there that I felt had an unreasonable thing thrown in. There was a point in The Goldfields where I hopped up in a 2 block gap between a row of munchers and a wall. Without any warning - bam! Paragoomba in my face. There are a couple other little sections like that as well.

I'll have to look into that. If you could tell me where these other sections are as well, it'd be much easier for me to fix. (I remember there being one section in Cooking Classes that I had to change multiple times so it was possible to get through unharmed after about twenty tries.)

Originally posted by keckcellent
My favorite level so far has been A Change of Seasons. While this is one of those 'its been done before' gimmicks, you executed it really well and made me really curious what Autumn was really like where I was at. I was able to break the level in a little bit by spinjumping into the terrain at a 1-block tall passage. In terms of visual aspects, no contest: Crystaline Caverns. For some reason, the level reminds me of LEGOs and that makes me happy.

A Change of Seasons was one of the most fun levels to design as well, though quite tedious (because I was essentially having to make the same level four times). The same with Flipping Fortress (except only two times, but it was harder because I had to flip everything as well). I'll have to find that 1-block high passage you're talking about, I don't remember it. Crystalline Caverns was a pretty fun one too, I remember I had had the idea for the level long before actually designing it.

Originally posted by keckcellent
Other minor nitpicks - I felt like there weren't too many coins in the levels. Most levels had only the dragon coins, an odd coin block near a powerup, and maybe some guiding coins to help with blind jumps. I don't know if that was a conscious decision or not. Also, layer priority issues popped up here and there. You may want to fix some of the more glaring issues with that.

I've noticed that I don't put many coins in when designing levels. Probably because I find them to be completely useless. I plan to eventually go through and add coins in places though. The thing about layer priority issues is that they're basically impossible to locate and fix in Lunar Magic. I need some better beta testers. (You seem like you'd do a pretty good job yourself.)

Originally posted by keckcellent
Edit: I made it to the end of the Demo. I am still missing 10 exits though, which I'll hopefully find soon. I really did not like Forest Camoflauge. While the visual aspect was great, especially in the second half, it was just a whole lot of visual confusion. I fell through the earth a couple times in the first half because the slopes didn't properly connect in the first half and I didn't know what was a log and what was just background design. Other than that, Lakeside Stroll was pretty nice. I didn't realize how close I was when I made my original post.

Hmm, I only came across one broken slope in my preliminary testing. Guess I better go through and fix them all up. Also, what in particular was confusing? I didn't have any trouble distinguishing foreground and background myself (although that may be because I already knew the design of the level). Should I make the background darker/paler? Forest Camouflage took just about a month to make, the longest if I remember correctly, and I still managed to screw it up? Oh well.

As for GS's post:
Originally posted by GoldenSonic15
When you beat the secret level Walking Up A Hill, you gain access to another pipe leading to another End of Demo submap. You can go to the left of that pipe, and enter an endless bonus game. Fix?

That's something I never could have found on my own. I think I might have an idea of what might be causing that. If I'm right, there might be an issue with one of the other End of Demo submaps.

Originally posted by GoldenSonic15
Oh, and I found some bg glitchinnss when I found the secret of A Change of Seasons. It appears after leaving the cave area.

Another issue that can't be found in LM. Having to go through and fix all the broken FG/BG positioning was so much of a chore that I eventually gave up and expected a beta tester to find all the BG glitchiness for me. Obviously they didn't.

Note to self: in future, hire competent testers.

Anyway, in regards to updates, I'll probably get to work on some new stuff after ironing out all the bugs in the current Demo 2 and updating the version on this site. That's assuming that it's accepted soon.

I'll probably be taking a different work approach from now on. The whole "make everything, test after" approach doesn't seem to be working for me. Also, would you guys prefer if I updated with in-game screenshots, or if I continued my old style of updates with editor images?

So, yeah.

REALLY NOT VERY fun fact: After fully typing up this post (which took most of an hour), I managed to somehow press the Back button in my browser, making me have to retype the post completely. Doing so has taken up another half of an hour.
May we meet again outside the battlefield.
This was the only hill that caused me problems in a replay of the level. I guess I got caught in it a few times and thought it was two different ones. Also, you may want to take out the jumping pirahna plant because of the layer-2 priority issues its causing. Regarding the rest of the level. I think there needs to be just a little more contrast between the real logs and the background logs. While I could tell which was which most of the time, in a jam I did try and run through a real log or jump onto a background log.

I also thought Cooking Classes was a bit difficult but to be honest, I'm not that great with playing SMW. Maybe it was a fair but brutally challenging level...you'll have to get someone else to gauge that. While on the subject of that. There was one section of Flipping Fortress where you're forced to take a hit if you are big. Its here.

You probably should change that.

The other little bug I saw was this.

While it was a little bit wacky and fun, you may want to change it so you teleport under the pipe without an object.

The coins are your decision. Lives aren't as useful as they would be in a typical hack because of the constant save points. I don't remember where the bad palette was but it was definetely in a sublevel.

Lastly, Descent. While I loved the level, I am starting to get the impression that Vertical Layer-2 levels are prone to massive slowdown (I have one in my hack as well). I don't know what you could do about it but if you can't change it, leave it.

But yeah...still fun.
Secret exit of Unclear Clearing?

Also I like it better when people take ingame screenies instead of ineditor screenies. Doesn't spoil as much, and they're easier to look at because you can put them in your post without stretching the table instead of linking them.
Good fucking bye.
Originally posted by keckcellent

Ah. The other slope I had to fix had the same problem. It's because all slopes are on layer 1, and the foreground bushes overlap the corner tile of the slope as seen in the picture. Can be fixed easily.

Originally posted by keckcellent
Also, you may want to take out the jumping pirahna plant because of the layer-2 priority issues its causing. Regarding the rest of the level. I think there needs to be just a little more contrast between the real logs and the background logs. While I could tell which was which most of the time, in a jam I did try and run through a real log or jump onto a background log.

Yeah, it sucks that there isn't a way to fix the piranha plants (well, not any vanilla way that I know of), but they're there to signify pipes (or at least solid land) beneath them. If I take them out there is no indication to find a Dragon Coin and a 3-UP moon. Also, I have already darkened the background logs slightly more, so I think that issue should be at least reduced.

Originally posted by keckcellent
I also thought Cooking Classes was a bit difficult but to be honest, I'm not that great with playing SMW. Maybe it was a fair but brutally challenging level...you'll have to get someone else to gauge that.

I thought it was pretty difficult myself. I tried making it a little easier by putting in a few more powerups than I usually do, and putting in some switch blocks to help you in some more difficult spots. I just really don't want to have to change the main design, because I think it's one of my best levels, albeit rather difficult compared to the others.

Originally posted by keckcellent
There was one section of Flipping Fortress where you're forced to take a hit if you are big. Its here.

You probably should change that.

Actually, it is possible to avoid that spike when big by holding down the jump and/or run buttons and left as soon as you exit the pipe. But many people don't seem to realise that, so maybe I should just remove it? I guess there already is another part where you fall onto spikes if you're not paying attention.

Originally posted by keckcellent
The other little bug I saw was this.

While it was a little bit wacky and fun, you may want to change it so you teleport under the pipe without an object.

Heh. Well, at least it's better than the glitched graphics that it was before, right? I don't think a proper level entrance is worth sacrificing for such a small goof.

Originally posted by keckcellent
The coins are your decision. Lives aren't as useful as they would be in a typical hack because of the constant save points. I don't remember where the bad palette was but it was definetely in a sublevel.

That's what I thought too. (I guess it doesn't help that the only rewards I can give in a vanilla hack is lives as well.) And I can't really be sure of which palette you mean, because "bad" is entirely subjective.

Originally posted by keckcellent
Lastly, Descent. While I loved the level, I am starting to get the impression that Vertical Layer-2 levels are prone to massive slowdown (I have one in my hack as well). I don't know what you could do about it but if you can't change it, leave it.

Yes, they are. There is actually another vertical layer 2 level in the demo that also suffers from some slowdown if I remember correctly. I don't think it gets as bad as the end of Descent though. I might patch FastROM for the final release to prevent the slowdown. (For that I'd have to use LM1.8x though, but all those extra hacks like VRAM rearrangement and stuff are optional, right?)

Anyway, the secret exit of Unclear Clearing:
Somewhere around the middle of the first section, there is a part with three pipes. Enter the pipe on the left, get the P-switch, and take it outside again. Then, guide the Boo Block from the left over to the right near to the pipe on the right. Press the P-switch so you can stand on the ? blocks slightly below the pipe so you can guide the Boo Block under the pipe so you can stand on it and enter the pipe. Inside the pipe, the cement block is actually a "used" block in disguise (it's slightly brown/yellow), so you can press the P-switch, then get the key and take it outside. Carry the key with you into the second section of the level, and there will be a turn block at the top of the screen near the beginning. Hit the turn block, and a silver P-switch drops. Press the P-switch and jump in the former muncher pit nearby. Then walk over to the keyhole with the key.

Guiding the Boo Block near the pipe may take several tries. I am going to try and make it easier by widening the gap between the pipe and the ledge on the other side.

Also, yeah, I think I might switch to in-game screenshots instead from now on. Full level images will probably still be accessible from my profile, I might set up a small site about my hack in the future so I can clear out my profile a little.

That's all for now I guess.
May we meet again outside the battlefield.
Thx.

Also oh noes more bg glitchiness in Geothermal.
Good fucking bye.
Having played the first demo, I grabbed the updated save you provided. The new levels are a lot of fun, and I have a few comments to make about them:
-in "Waiting in Line", there are a few unfair points(that place where there's 3 or so saws)(too lazy to provide screenshot)
-little bit of garbled BG at certain points in "Geothermal"(as said before)
-"Pleasantry Plateau"'s palette is very nice
-there's a dog-shaped landmass in "Lakeside Stroll" or w/e it was called. Just thought I'd share that.

You know though, I have to say something. You seem to have given the later levels some... different sprite palettes, and while I'm all up for diversity, at times they were kind of odd, awkward, or downright silly. The colors weren't ugly, it just felt... unnatural. Not saying you should change 'em, though, since you seem to be fond of them I guess(or else you wouldn't have done it so much).

Also, I didn't find Cooking Classes that bad(except the grinder spin-jump portion). I've recently embraced and fallen in love with the technique of using enemies as part of the "ground" so to speak- like spin-jumping off a ball-'n'-chain because there's a pit of lava and no block to jump off of. You used things like this a lot in your hack, which is awesome.

Overall, a lot of fun gimmicks were used in this hack, and a lot of clever use of SMW's resources. Play it guys.
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