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014: Onsen Overhang - Kojeco2/cstutor89
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - World 3 - 014: Onsen Overhang - Kojeco2/cstutor89
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Do you at least have some screen shots to show us? Its been about a week now...
Layout by LDA during C3.
Wow, I really feel sad now, I just looked at the new version of the level, and compared it to the old version of the level (the latest IPS patch that I posted) and I realized that out of the two weeks that I haven't posted, I went in a complete circle. Pretty much everything is the same besides a few bug-fixes, an Easter egg added in the second section, new enemies added, and both the second and the third sections were slightly shortened. (by about 1-2 screens)

I tinkered around with most of the other enemies I had available to me and the only that I was able to get to work in a vertical level (and with the current terrain) was the bouncing boulder thing. It appears throughout the second section only though.

I fixed a major error in the third section where only the top of the corrosive water would actually deal damage to you (you could swim through the rest of the blocks) and also fixed some other simple cutoff and block errors. I might've accidentally left some in though.

So, after a long wait, here it is: clickityclickclickclickclickyclikclik

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Hmm. . . not sure what to say so I'll just stop talking. . .

Extras



I should have something witty to put here (even if it's just to update dated info), shouldn't I?

Advertising Space


Guess what still isn't animated?


Best off just giving these things full priority.


There are directional hurt blocks in the base ROM for a reason.


Redundant, Pointless, Arbitrary, whatever you want to call it. It's very easy to jump over those blocks without the need of a P-Switch.

By the way, guess what doesn't animate?


Slowdown on this screen.


How did you not catch this? Because you stacked two standard air meters into the level without making appropriate changes to the ASM, the air meter's timer will drain TWICE as fast, making getting this P-Switch impossible on the first full run of the level. (Currently you have it REQUIRED for Mario to die in order to proceed.) Either make a duplicate level and have the midway entrance sublevel direct Mario THAT way (while removing the extra sprite) or go into the sprite's INIT and insert the code necessary to check if a sprite exists in the level already.

I can do the second option rather easily, since the air meters in level 130 do just that.


...


Replace the Question Block that was there with a Note Block. It's very easy to screw yourself over if you make it here with the P-Switch still active. (Which still has a good amount of time left before making it this far.)



You may wanna reword that.


And you still haven't added the Goal Roulette sprite here because....?

Disregard. Just noticed that since you still are using a dated base showed me that you did a sprite insertion without the original sprites in the base.

A few more points:



- Broken rail above a solid bridge, in contrast to the rule followed elsewhere in the stage.

- Map 16 tiles 2C4E and 2C4F are currently arranged in such a way that the streams of fluid built therewith give the odd impression of flowing in two different directions at once.



- In the second a third sections, there's a few places where Mario can be seen through the top and sides of the priority-enabled foliage.

- Also, I can't help but think the crates currently look as though they are solid.

- I'd still really rather you didn't use the cracked clay jars, as they honestly do look awfully similar to those seen in Shénmì Frica-Sea, which is itself located in the same neighborhood. That said, it may be worth slightly modifying the appearance of the jars in general, as not too long ago, I visited a shrine-lined mountain not entirely dissimilar to this one (well, aside from the lack of an industrial facility on top. And the geysers and so such. And all the people trying to kill me. All right, so it was a bit different from this one, admittedly), and I noticed that all of the offering jars tended to be white in color.



- This coin strikes me as far too easy to get; it may be worth moving it to the area at the top of screen 3 (currently filled with ordinary coins) which one has to jump atop the message block to reach--that strikes me a a place the player would be a bit less likely to go. Also, I only counted two coins in the level--this one, and the one in the intro. Where exactly is the third one? Is that pipe past the goal intended to lead to a wee bonus room inside of the power plant containing it, perhaps...?

- I can't help but think the midpoint might be better placed moved down a screen or two...


As for potentially suitable tunes or the third section...

- For something not entirely different in feel from what you presently have, Fire/Ice Level 2 (65) would be a possible choice--it has a fast pace and something of the same mood of desperation as the current track, while being a little more low key. It admittedly still doesn't strike me as entirely appropriate for this area, but it's probably a bit more fitting than the somewhat too dramatic Electrospire.

- For a more "logical" choice, I would recommend Grass/Industrial Level 1 (46). A little more downbeat, but still has a pretty fast tempo, and something of a mournful tone to it, which suits the mood of the area pretty well. A good middle-ground, so to speak, and a suitable contrast to the first two sections, without seeming jarring. You certainly couldn't go wrong with this one, if nothing else.

- For something a bit more unconventional, I would suggest Watery Level 2 (43). This is a good deal slower than the above two (though still a bit faster than the track heard in the rest of the level), and seems more suggestive of an understated, hidden threat of the sort one might fear during a dark, lonely night such as the one featured in this area. Sort of an interesting track in that despite not being intended for this world, it nevertheless has something of a light East Asian flavor, but one which is slightly distorted, as though it were echoing through a long metal pipe--which is likewise quite appropriate for this area.
Thanks everyone for replying so quickly!

MrDeePay: I fixed everything you talked about except for the ASM in the sprite, I actually did realize that at first but just forgot to mention it. I would be very appreciative if you would help edit the sprite, if you want to you can find it in my file bin. My knowledge in farting surpasses my knowledge in ASM.

Rameau's Nephew: First I would like to note that I am glad no-one tried to murder you on your trip through the mountains.

I am not entirely sure if you want me to completely overhaul the graphics for the pots or simply edit the palette to make them white, for this IPS update I have only recreated the palette to fit it in. By the way, thanks for mentioning that about the colour of the pots, it flew right over my head that the colour of death and mourning is white in traditional Chinese culture.

I see what you mean by the broken rails above the bridges, they did look odd in that position, so I went around the level and got rid of most of the other areas with formations like that. I edited the layer priority areas too.

The SMWC coins have been moved around. . . well actually, the second one is now actually IN the level, that was a fail on my part. The first coin stayed the same, but now the second coin is where the 1-up is (it is slightly easier to get to, maybe to easy?) and the third coin is above the info box in the third section.

The third section's music has also been edited, it is now track 65. Although track 43 seems not only to be oriental but acquainted with the night, it is simply too slow and not powerful enough. (and 46 didn't fit in at all)

IPS Download

--------------------
Hmm. . . not sure what to say so I'll just stop talking. . .

I don't think you need to completely revamp the pottery; I'd just recommend changing the cracked ones to something else, as I think it would benefit both our levels to have more distinct decorations. The larger cracked one might be better served replaced with a sort of bowl-like vessel as seen in the second photograph above; the smaller with one of the pointed-lidded vessels as seen both in the center here and in the first photo above, as I seem to recall seeing those everywhere on the aforementioned mountain.

Anyway, concerning this version:

- The second coin does strike me as a bit too easy; its neighbor, the mushroom, is now both readily visible (giving the player obvious incentive to go on this ledge) and effortlessly accessible, thanks to the bridge. I'd recommend having the ledge only be accessible by invisible coin block (as seem in earlier drafts) and perhaps hiding the mushroom more completely (or putting it in that little ceiling alcove above this section, and making that area correspondingly accessibly through a hidden block and the like).

- Is there any reason why the water is now green in the first section (but no elsewhere)?

- The first P-switch in the second area (screen 17) is arranged in such a way that the jump can be a bit annoying on account of one's being unable to see exactly where one's landing. What's more, a miss will very often cause one to fall down upon a breakable bridge section below, and land in the spikes.

- Incidentally, I think there needs to be a powerup in one on the blocks near this first switch. As things stand, there's too much of a gap between the first and second powerups...

- A certain mysterious gentleman in the second section has some unintentional purple highlights in his hair...



- There are still a few areas in the second and third section where a broken rail sits above a solid bridge. Indeed, in the third section, we even have the opposite:



...where a solid rail also sits above a breakable section of bridge. This actually screwed me up several times during testing.



- The water's drunk? And apparently picking fights with people? Is Norveg running a distillery up there?

- The polluted geysers are extremely difficult to see at present--almost invisible. I know the final version is going to look quite different (from a series of monochrome tiles) and be animated, but for the testers' sake, it would help if they were a bit easier to spot.



- Oh, that wacky layer priority.



- Both in this version and the last one, I've been getting an extremely bizarre bug where one of either this Paragoomba or the shellless Koopa either before or after it (but only one one these) will suddendly become non-interactable, that is to say both harmless and invincible. Any idea what might be causing this? (Also, more rail/bridge inconsistency.)


Concerning the sprites in this stage--I tried throwing in a few Ninjis in the second level, and they seem to work reasonably well in all except a handful of cases, so there's no reason you shouldn't be able to fit in a few in the second section for a bit of variety, if you like. Alternatively, you might want to update to a newer version of the base ROM (your is, admittedly, pretty ancient), and see if perhaps there's a custom sprite there which might be able to suit your needs.
Originally posted by Rameau's Nephew


- The water's drunk? And apparently picking fights with people? Is Norveg running a distillery up there?


. . .

Uh, so, *hic* sorry I uh, *hic* sorry uh about that. I think I was inebriated myself when I wrote that.

Everything else (including the megadmin's hair and the pottery) has been fixed except for the peculiar sprite error you got in the third section. There could be two reasons why this is happening:

1. The sprite may have touched the toxic water and technically was killed but not graphically, thus creating a sort of 'ghost' sprite.

2. It double spawned, an error that I have received in other levels that do not include the toxic water block. Basically, I think what happens in this glitch is that the way you enter the screen causes the sprite to spawn twice and that creates the ghost sprite.

The odd thing about this glitch though is that the shell-less koopa will interact with the shell, kick it, and then all of a sudden just become invincible. This glitch also occurs with the green parakoopas near the end of the level.

How exactly did you place the ninjis? Did you place them in long horizontal areas, because I have found now that those areas seem to work just fine and ninjis do not despawn. The problem is that ninjis have a tendency to disappear just as easily as not disappearing, so it can cause some confusing sprite placement in the level.

I do understand where to put the ninjis though, so those little guys now appear scattered throughout different areas (not haphazardly mind you).

I will try to post something tonight, but I have to go to a wedding, it's not mine fortunately.

--------------------
Hmm. . . not sure what to say so I'll just stop talking. . .


Got an update for us? It's been about a week.
Layout by LDA during C3.
If you don't have an update this time Kojeco2, please just send in the level as it is and I'll get someone else to fix up the remaining issues. There is no reason that it should have taken over a month to get a couple of bugs fixed, honestly, and I've been really generous with your deadline extensions thus far.

Thanks.
Yah, you guys have been extremely generous with my extension, I'm honestly quite surprised you guys haven't just terminated my level yet. But, I AM very appreciative of it, and I hope it paid off this (click here) time.

Pottery, palette, enemies and SMWC coin placement has been fixed, also, the rare glitch Rameau's Nephew was getting is also fixed (I think), hopefully, this is the final version.

--------------------
Hmm. . . not sure what to say so I'll just stop talking. . .


Overall this level seem a bit too long. You may want to consider cutting some parts out.

Only found a few issues so far;


Ont thing that was driving me nuts was the fact the these boxes look like they should be solid. I was extremely lucky I didn't hit the boulders trying to jump on top of it, otherwise I would of just jumped over the whole thing.


The thing about P-switch puzzles like this is what happens if the player screws up and can't get past there in time. Then he's screwed. Maybe use the half-time P switch and the corresponding P-swich blocks for this setup maybe.


This Chuck is no threat. Just standing here causes him to run off the ledge and off screen. Extend the ground Mario is standing on by 1 tile


This setup to get to the P-switch causes the player to have to be very precise in there swimming. One wrong move and they are dead. It took me a few tries to get it right and I just barely made it.

Other than that, everything else looked pretty good.
Layout by LDA during C3.

Extras



I should have something witty to put here (even if it's just to update dated info), shouldn't I?

Advertising Space

Originally posted by Lightvayne
This setup to get to the P-switch causes the player to have to be very precise in there swimming. One wrong move and they are dead. It took me a few tries to get it right and I just barely made it.

Other than that, everything else looked pretty good.


Originally posted by Me a couple weeks back
How did you not catch this? Because you stacked two standard air meters into the level without making appropriate changes to the ASM, the air meter's timer will drain TWICE as fast, making getting this P-Switch impossible on the first full run of the level. (Currently you have it REQUIRED for Mario to die in order to proceed.) Either make a duplicate level and have the midway entrance sublevel direct Mario THAT way (while removing the extra sprite) or go into the sprite's INIT and insert the code necessary to check if a sprite exists in the level already.

I can do the second option rather easily, since the air meters in level 130 do just that.


I already said that I would fix that later MrDeePay, I have no idea how to though. Actually, you said it would be an easy fix apparently, do you think you could do fix it up for me please?

--------------------
Hmm. . . not sure what to say so I'll just stop talking. . .

Extras



I should have something witty to put here (even if it's just to update dated info), shouldn't I?

Advertising Space

Post me the ASM file.

Edit: Or not. I just looked in your File Bin and noticed one there, so here:

Code
		DCB "INIT"
PHB
PHK
PLB
LDY #$09				; setup loop

LoopStart:
CPY $15E9				;\ if sprite being checked is this one,
BEQ NextCycle				;/ branch
LDA $14C8,y				;\ if sprite being checked is non-existant,
BEQ NextCycle				;/ branch
PHX
TYX
LDA $7FAB9E,x				;\  if sprite being checked isn't
PLX					; | the same custom sprite as this one,
CMP $7FAB9E,x				; |
BNE NextCycle				;/  branch
STZ $14C8,x				; if code gets here, there is another instance of
BRA LoopDone				; this sprite active, so this one is destroyed

NextCycle:
DEY					; decrease loop counter
BPL LoopStart				; if sprites left to check, branch

LoopDone:
PLB
        RTL

        DCB "MAIN"
        PHB
        PHK
        PLB
        JSR MainSub
        PLB
        RTL



Replace the ASM file's INIT section with that.

I do agree it might not be a bad idea to trim the second area a bit (say two or three screens), as it seems to go on just a little too long compared to the other segments and feature just a few too many somewhat-too-similar variations on a theme. Otherwise, most of the issues I noticed have been corrected, aside from the above-noted ambiguity as regards the solidity of crates (a minor palette change regarding their outlines might be in order, or even just making them act like tile 105), and I still seem to be getting that bizarre sprite ghosting issue. Also, the water, incorrigible inebriate that it is, is still "intoxicated"--I think "contaminated" may be a better choice of words in this context.
You guys are clairvoyant, I just removed the second p-switch puzzle.

And did I still not change the text in the third section? Sorry about that.

I've saved the original level palettes and now I'm fiddling around with them a bit more (I know it is probably not the wisest choice of action considering how far along the level already is). Every since I started the second version of the level, I wondered what it would look like if made it a transition from mourning in the first section, mid-day in the second section and sunset in the third. Nothing is complete yet so I would rather not give you a broken IPS right now but something will show up tonight.

Also, thanks for taking time out of your day to fix that, that's a really big help!

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Hmm. . . not sure what to say so I'll just stop talking. . .

Here you go.

Updates:

-Slightly edited palette
-Removed second p-switch puzzle
-Added reset door to the p-switch area
-Fixed the chuck
-Decided to stop tinkering with the palette and just make the boxes solid.

And, just for fun you can click here for a failed palette experiment.

EDIT: I just realized that with the reset door you can regain the powerup from the question mark block infinitely, so please disregard that when you are playing through the level, that has already been fixed.

--------------------
Hmm. . . not sure what to say so I'll just stop talking. . .

I'd say the removal of the section switch bit and the solidification of the boxes both made the level feel a good deal more polished. Just four errors I noticed:

- When you first enter the stage, a partially depleted air meter will appear, and slowly build back up for no ostensible reason.

- If you use the reset door in the second section, the air meter will be gone completely until the midpoint.



- One more instance of bridge/rail inconsistency.

- The water is still boozing it up in the third section.
Thanks for the reply, everything except the sprite error is fixed, I'll contact MrDeePay for some more information on how to fix it. (And the water is finally no longer off of it's arse. . . if it has one.)

Also, did you manage to get the phantom sprite error again? I haven't been able to duplicate it but if it is still occurring I will consult the creator of the block or do some digging in the ASM file myself.

--------------------
Hmm. . . not sure what to say so I'll just stop talking. . .

I've tried playing through that area a number of times with the most recent version of the level, and the spoooooky phantom sprite issue doesn't appear to be resurfacing. So it would seem that whatever was causing it before does not seem to be having an effect in the current version of the level.

Also, one more rather minor issue I didn't pick up on before:



Bit of a priority mismatch with the wall and leaves here.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 » Link
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - World 3 - 014: Onsen Overhang - Kojeco2/cstutor89

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