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118: Aerotastic Assault - BlueZy
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - World 7 - 118: Aerotastic Assault - BlueZy
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Pages: « 1 2 »
Claimed By: superdragonyoshi1
World: 7
Exits: 2
Theme: Sky
Music Options: 1, 2, 3, or compose your own.

Briefing: The second level in the sky world. Keep in mind that the secret exit you design leads to the switch palace, and as such should be slightly difficult to find. Consider high altitude gimmicks in this level.
Seeing my name here just feels so....alleviating. I finally got it after two months.

Anyway, the level.

The first 2-3 screens will be based off the ending of Dragonite's level, as well as introduce Bounce Clouds. They're like the whales in Blowhole Bounce. They're just different colored regular clouds, but that'll be explained.

The rest of the main part will go on somewhat the same, but there might be note blocks as well, that actually don't bounce you as high. Some tricky bounces will commence, and the first SMWCoin will be in the area. A bonus pipe will lead to it.

The second part will introduce the Jetpak enemy in a subtle way. I plan to have you run into some bounce blocks, which will bounce you over the first Jetpak. Bounces will go on, as well as Jetpaks. Somewhere in this part will be a SMWCoin, as well as another bonus area, which leads to the third area.

I may plan on having 2 midways in this level, considering part 3. This part leads to the Blue Switch Palace, and so it's hard. I plan on making it an about 0A screen part, with 2 Jetpaks at one point. maybe even 3. Not sure about 3, though. Point is, part 3 is hard, and also has a SMWCoin, as to give you a hint that you missed one in the level.

Some sort of next post will inclusde screenshots.

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woag.....

(previously superdragonyoshi1. sup yall.)
Isn't TheGamer also using a high-bouncing cloud? I hope we're not overusing bounce blocks in general.

Dodging jetpaks with bounce/note blocks sounds interesting though. Let's see how it turns out, then.

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Youtube (Main) | Youtube (Alt) | Bandcamp | DeviantART
Originally posted by AxemJinx
Isn't TheGamer also using a high-bouncing cloud? I hope we're not overusing bounce blocks in general.


I agree overusing blocks is bad, but if the multiple designers here use the block in a differents ways then it's ok becuase each level will have it's own design. Besides, having the same block used in multiple levels gives the hack some consistency.

That being said, I like how you are giving some flow to the hack by "continuing" Dragonite's level.

I hope to see some screenshots soon.
Rather than screenshots, I think an IPS will help people see my level. It's only the first part, though.

Screens: 19 (13)

Level name propositions:
Aerotastic Assault
Airborne Assault
Cloud-bounce Capers

Some ideas, ranked in order I like them.

Before you question it, that pipe near the end will lead somewhere, just not yet.
And the Jetpaks will be in the next part, so don't worry.

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woag.....

(previously superdragonyoshi1. sup yall.)
Pretty interesting so far, though I feel it might be a tad easy in certain spots. I don't have too many gripes - I feel like you introduce the bouncing cloud mechanic quite well (that is, you bring it in at the beginning in a non-dangerous way, and then gradually use it in more difficult ways). I hope you'll effectively mix it in with the Jeptak part in the same manner (probably more towards the end).

I guess the main problem I have is with some awkward sprite placements and unfair spots. Other than that, it's pretty good.


-Blind drop here. I was actually hit by the Koopa the first time, and rewound to fix it.


-It's probably not a good idea to make such an easily obtainable 1-UP to be put so close to the start of the level. Either make it a bit harder to get or like .. put a Mushroom here or something.


-Also a totally blind drop (found it by accident by falling). You put an SMWC coin in the coin too, meaning it shouldn't be THAT hard to locate. Try to give more of a hint that the pipe even exists.
-Might I suggest using the "Bonus Area" music in the ROM as opposed to the switch palace theme? In fact, it might even do you well to use Foop's bonus GFX set that MrDeePay ripped as opposed to the switch palace tiles. Just a thought - it's not major.


-Raise this pipe by one tile. The screen jerks a bit when you come out of it.


-Iffy baseball palette.

That's all. I'm interested in seeing if you'll utilize the Jeptaks to their full potential. Make sure you introduce them fairly, since your level will likely be the first that has them.

(also, I like Aerotastic Assault the most, since it not only sounds moderately humorous, but it also incorporates both the bouncy cloud gimmick AND the Jeptaks.)
Originally posted by S.N.N.


-Blind drop here. I was actually hit by the Koopa the first time, and rewound to fix it.

I never encountered that problem when I played through it, but I'll just take out the Koopa.
Originally posted by S.N.N.


-It's probably not a good idea to make such an easily obtainable 1-UP to be put so close to the start of the level. Either make it a bit harder to get or like .. put a Mushroom here or something.

Strange, it seemed pretty hard to get that for me. Maybe it's because I play with a keyboard, but I'll fix that.

Originally posted by S.N.N.

-Also a totally blind drop (found it by accident by falling). You put an SMWC coin in the coin too, meaning it shouldn't be THAT hard to locate. Try to give more of a hint that the pipe even exists.
-Might I suggest using the "Bonus Area" music in the ROM as opposed to the switch palace theme? In fact, it might even do you well to use Foop's bonus GFX set that MrDeePay ripped as opposed to the switch palace tiles. Just a thought - it's not major.

1. The major point of that is that I fell more often than not on the way past that part, but I'll indicate that there's something down there.
2. The music I chose actually felt like it fit that room better than the bonus room music. I'll see about using the bonus room graphics later.

Originally posted by S.N.N.


-Raise this pipe by one tile. The screen jerks a bit when you come out of it.

Odd, but will do.

Originally posted by S.N.N.


-Iffy baseball palette.

I'll fix that.

Originally posted by S.N.N.

That's all. I'm interested in seeing if you'll utilize the Jeptaks to their full potential. Make sure you introduce them fairly, since your level will likely be the first that has them.

I was up for the challenge, since Jetpaks seem like a hard enemy to avoid, but easy once you figure out their attack patterns.

There's just one problem. The color that the baseball uses is also used by the Red Koopa, Flying koopa with red cape, and the mushroom, among others. Can I have help in solving that problem?

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woag.....

(previously superdragonyoshi1. sup yall.)
-Your level seems to oscillate too widely between intricate sprite setups and empty space- try to make the arrangement more evenly distributed. Screens 2, 6/7, 8-A, and C-E don't have much going on. Also, while some platforms have cloudy shapes, others are just very blocky and straight-liney.

4: You have a ladder going down, but you also have a coin guide right next to it. I expect most players will take the latter option, which will lead to a blind drop. Simply removing the enemy, though, just makes things more boring. Modifying the architecture would probably be a better idea.

5: Climbing down to get those three measly coins seems pointless to me, and the 1up is quite easy to access from the bounce cloud.

6-7: These bounce clouds make it easy to dodge enemies- I mean, you can bounce really high just by holding the jump button. I'm worried about how things will play out with the jetpaks- you'll probably need ceilings for that section.

7: I like the shapes of the airborne platforms here, as opposed to the rectangular ones elsewhere.

A: By this point the level's starting to feel too easy, and the bouncing brigade doesn't pose that much of a threat, in my opinion.

B: Using the ol' chuck + lotus combo once in a while is fine, but these are the only setups that feel difficult at all, and I wish you'd be a little more creative with the other sprites, too.

C, bottom: It's easy enough to get this without the switch palace blocks as small Mario. That's not necessarily bad- I'm just pointing it out.

D: You can get this 1up without jumping over the platform.

The bonus room feels extremely straightforward. I mean, with those switches right in front of the munchers and coins, it may as well just be a boring string of block platforms one after another a la Bowser's Return. All the sprites in this sublevel are on the bottom and fairly harmless.

Overall, it's ok so far, but parts feel empty and the difficulty isn't really where it should be for World 6. You also have to be careful about how much leeway the bounce blocks give players, since holding the jump button is akin to those Scrolls of Icarian Flight in Morrowind :b

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Overall, the level feels incredibly easy, especially for a World 6 level. I feel most of the present difficulty is either a result of blind drops or the lack of a free scroll camera from the bounce clouds - basically falling victim to what lies beyond the screen boarders. Axem and SNN already pointed out the blind drops, but as far as the camera, I believe Vic Rattlehead found a solution for the same issue with one of his own blocks. You might want to look into that.

My other big issue is that none of the Super Koopas pose any immediate threat. Most of them are placed either too high or too low, and those that aren't are easily skipped by already having to dodge some other foe such as the lava lotus. I think a large amount of difficulty can be corrected and reclaimed if the Super Koopas are fine tuned regarding their position relative to where Mario is or may be when he approaches them.

Another annoyance, and this is likely more of a personal nitpick, are the one-tile wide gaps peppered about the stage that seem to serve no real purpose other than being forced to exist because of the limitations of the tileset itself. More precisely, I'm talking about these:

I can't help but feel that an additional tile can be made that has both the FG ledge and BG girder so that ledge can be solid all the way across. As is, the hole just seems pointless. Not only do I think it would help alleviate useless gaps like this, but it could help spice up the overall FG/BG girder architecture in certain areas such as screens A/B or D.

Originally posted by AxemJinx
C, bottom: It's easy enough to get this without the switch palace blocks as small Mario. That's not necessarily bad- I'm just pointing it out.

It's also just as easy to get through with big Mario. I'm assuming we aren't supposed to get through there unless we have obtained the required switches.

And regarding the bonus room, I wonder if maybe the entire bottom section should just be scrapped, having the room focus more on the the obtainment of the SMWC coin. The entire top section could then be moved down and further developed allowing for something a bit more "puzzling." Maybe add a return pipe after the SMWC coin as well so there's no need to backtrack and then move the coins and powerup around the entrance pipe/initial exit pipe? Just some ideas.

I think you have some good ideas in place so far, but the difficulty really needs to be looked into and adjusted. Honestly, once all the "blind" issues are rectified, I think you might be able to achieve proper difficulty just by moving some sprites around, especially the Super Koopas like I said. Anyways, looking forward to seeing how you combine the bounce clouds and Jeptaks in the next area.
I wish I could say I had something to show off, but I have nothing to show off. ^^'

I dealt with as many of the issues stated by S.N.N, Axem, and Milk as possible without having to tear apart big chunks of my level or dealing with things I can't fix right now (baseball palette), but I can't show anything right now.

Anyway, Aerotastic Assault is officially the name of my little level, so please add it into the thread title, someone.

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woag.....

(previously superdragonyoshi1. sup yall.)
Download

Revision of the first part of my level. I tried to add to the difficulty. Right now I'm afraid I made it too hard though.

Things to ignore:
Baseball palette
2nd area
Pipe to the 3rd area is unaccessable for the time being

I would like feedback!

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woag.....

(previously superdragonyoshi1. sup yall.)

I like the idea using red clouds for jump blocks, but I think it looks to much like the normal cloud.


I can go into this pipe without using the switches. Is this the 3rd area where your speaking of?


This P-switch time is 1/4 of the normal, and I had to try many times until I get the SMWCoin. Also, the coin has to be 4 blue coins, not 2 :P




^^topleft

You give away much mushrooms. But if the player is big there, the player just wasted time trying to get a mushroom. Please replace at least 1 of them with a power-up ?-Block.


It was very hard making a way through this with big mario. It's more like a hell to try to get on that note block.


That green jump thing is REALLY annoying, if you try getting the midway point.
Judging from what I see so far, I don't even think you need the high-bouncing clouds. I mean, most of the time you're encouraging players to NOT hold "jump" when using them, so doesn't that make them not much different than note blocks or springboards? Do you ever really need to bounce that high? Apart from the introductory setups, all the bounces are pretty low, so what are you introducing, exactly? Unless you're going to come up with something more creative later on, I'd honestly consider scrapping them.

6/7: It feels awkward having the bounce cloud right next to the lotus plant. Why don't you separate them a bit and/or swap their positions, so that the lotus is in the middle of the bounce arc?

9: This chuck might pose more of a threat if it were shifted to the right.

E: Getting this midway point is needlessly annoying.

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I think Bloop and Axem pointed out most everything in this level that still needs some help, but I would like to reiterate Bloop's concerns over the throw block section and the silver p-switch run in the bonus room. Right out, I say that throw block section's got to go. As is, I only see that as acceptable in World 9 or possibly the more hellish parts of World 8. Really, there's no need to even go into detail as to why it doesn't belong, so moving on to the bonus room. I have to say I'm a little disappointed that you decided to stick with a straight p-switch run, only it now runs from right to left. But that aside, the silver-p sprint is really cutting it close. It took me roughly 25 tries before I finally managed to make it all the way across. I was beginning to suspect it wasn't possible or that I had to perform some sort of miracle jump somewhere within that sprint. Of course, you shouldn't just give the SMWC coin away, but I wonder if there's a way to create that setup (if you're sticking with a p-switch run style setup) so that you have just a tick of the clock more to spare. Maybe even condensing the run but adding a sense of danger in there. Still, I'd rather see a thinking man's setup, but that's just me.

Otherwise, the only other thing I'd like to point out is the following:

Yep, I can still get through there (and this was without a cape). If the point is that Mario should only be able to get to this area if the appropriate switches are pressed, than make it so. Don't even create the possibility that it can be cheated. Sure, the low ceiling makes for a difficult entry and subsequent jump, but having that one block there ensures that it's possible. What I would do is just layer the entire floor with switch blocks. Of course, if you're intent is that crafty players can still get in there, then I guess there's no problem.
It's still made to be possible to get in there without either switch pressed, it's just supposed to be difficult.
Anyways, progress is now keeping at a great pace, and I should have it completed by about the 20th or so. Maybe a little later.

I don't have much stuff to show, since all I really did is fix some placement of stuff in the first area to smooth out the difficulty and make the first SMWC coin a bit harder. That was difficult in itself, actually.

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woag.....

(previously superdragonyoshi1. sup yall.)
Weeeeee
Aerotastic Assault: v 1.0

So yeah, the level is officially "finished".
Note: File 1 leads to the midpoint, so choose file 2 or 3.
Remember, my level is 6-2.

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woag.....

(previously superdragonyoshi1. sup yall.)
Good job on this one. Your usage of the Jeptaks is rather nice, and they feel incorporated with the design rather than being tacked on. You even made the actual architecture more simple once two were introduced so as to not overwhelm the player.

Anyway, screenshots first, then my thoughts.


If you're trying to actually block this path off to players who don't have both switches pressed, you're not doing a very good job. If you're just trying to make it harder for them to enter, then it seems kind of pointless since .. well, it's not hard to enter either way.


The timing on this needs to be utterly perfect (to get from the silver tiles to the left side), and I don't know if I really agree with that honestly.


This message is pretty poorly written. For one, the Jeptaks don't actually "shoot", and for another, the actual writing sounds almost .. childish, I guess? I'm not looking for Shakespeare of course, but something a little more threatening may be in order.


I don't agree with putting a 1-UP in such plain sight right after the midway. Essentially, there becomes no real fear of dying.

-No screenshot, but the room after the third SMWC coin uses the "Here we go!" track. You might want to fix that.

Overall, it's a nicely designed level that feels about right for world six, and I enjoyed playing it quite a bit. If that goal with the "S" is really the secret exit, then it isn't very well hidden, especially if it leads to an important level like a switch palace. I'd make the third SMWC coin in that pipe, and then hide the secret exit somewhere else in the level (maybe even earlier on .. most people don't like replaying the exact same level to the very end only to find the secret exit is in obvious sight).

That's all I've got.
118
4, top: Personally, that ladder makes things more annoying than they have to be, especially since you can get stuck if you're too far off to the side. Nothing's going on while you descend this ladder, either, so I would consider replacing it with a gap in the floor and some tiles or platforms leading down, maybe with an airborne enemy on the way down.

4/5, bottom: There are times when adding enemies doesn't do anything valuable, and this is probably one of them. All three of those enemies arrive at the same time in the same spot, and it's just a matter of waiting for them to arrive and jumping in place. Combine that with the fact that this area is pretty discriminatory toward Big Mario, and it's not my favorite part of the stage.

7: This jump is a bit much, honestly. The red parakoopa flies too high, it's easy to get caught on the ceiling and become cannon fodder for the koopa on the next platform, and if you fall down, getting back up is a chore since the bounce cloud is right next to the lotus plant (which by the way, doesn't pose much of a threat anyway until that point since players will obviously jump from the higher platform).

8: I have to admit, this does seem a bit arbitrary.

9: This chuck is blind, and it's quite possible you'll land on a baseball.

B: This mushroom takes a bit too much work to get, personally.

D, bottom: Big Mario Discrimination.

E-12: A powerup to the left of the exit, and two more hidden away? Is that really necessary given that we're using the SMB3 powerdown patch? Also, why does the midpoint start before the hammer bro + lotus setup? That's rather irritating.


31
0-2: Two easily obtainable 1ups after the midpoint, plus you can take a shortcut through the whole area via the message box, plus it's pretty sparse spritewise.

3-4: Well, that jetpak sprite is pretty fast! So fast that the audio cue doesn't come early enough and so doesn't help one bit in acclimating to the thing. So fast that I feel I have to constantly pay it attention at the expense of everything else in the stage. Honestly, does it need to be this fast? I feel like people can just make a mediocre level, toss a jetpak in there, and all of a sudden the level's great because all you do is wait for that one moment of dodging. Granted, screens 5-6 are interesting, but the rest...? Everything seems to take a backseat to this sprite. What an attention hog.

What's even worse is that there's ZERO indication of a second one until you suddenly get blindsided in the face during a jump. The fact that they come from the same direction doesn't help matters. Whereas S.N.N. seems to think it a positive that you're curbing the level's complexity to accommodate the sprite, I see it as a negative aspect of the sprite that you have to make everything else so simple.

Oh, and you can skip part of screen 4 by just falling to the right- it happened accidentally to me the first time, but I feel like there's a chance it could happen to anyone.

7: There's hardly any angle of approach against this elite goomba thanks to the ceiling generator, and I would retreat backward but the previous screens are just as cramped. What do you expect players to do here?

8, lower: Another case where falling accidentally rewards you with less work.

9: I have to wait out the p-switch as soon as I press it? It's not like you're trapped with the jetpak, either, since you can jump back out until time's up...so yeah, that isn't to my liking.


37
Perfect timing = unacceptable. Change, please.


38
I would have this lead back out onto the main path (or a duplicate so you can bring back both jetpaks), not the secret exit- it's too simple to find.


32
Overall, this actually feels like more appropriate use of the jetpak, since you actually have room to jump around and throw off its aim! I wonder if you should incorporate that concept into the main area...other than that, though, how is this any different from the main path? Conceptually, it feels the same *shrug*

2/3, bottom: This jump is extremely difficult, especially under the circumstances!



Overall, I have mixed feelings. Sometimes it seems like the jetpak is just thinly veiling and/or compensating for the level's deficiencies, and while it isn't always the case, it's enough for me to notice and bemoan. Also, I still don't really see why you need those bounce clouds. Note blocks have the added benefit of always activating the camera.

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Originally posted by AxemJinx
What's even worse is that there's ZERO indication of a second one until you suddenly get blindsided in the face during a jump. The fact that they come from the same direction doesn't help matters. Whereas S.N.N. seems to think it a positive that you're curbing the level's complexity to accommodate the sprite, I see it as a negative aspect of the sprite that you have to make everything else so simple.


I'm not calling it a 100% positive aspect - I'm just saying it's nice. It's very possible that he could have simply made a really complex pattern of clouds/girders, thrown the Jeptak in, and called it a day, but he didn't. The level's design actually DOES accommodate the Jeptak - I can't really see how the set-ups could be much more complex than this and still manage to use the sprite in a way that isn't completely terrible. Furthermore, there are plenty of levels in other games where the actual architecture of the level takes a "back seat" for the gimmick, and they work fine. Remember Rocket Run from DKC3, which is essentially "down then up" without much complexity? Remember "Touch Fuzzy Get Dizzy" from Yoshi's Island where any levels that used the Fuzzy were practically flat? I would rather see a simply designed level utilizing the gimmick well than a level that was never meant to have it in the first place.

Furthermore, the sprite itself is supposed to be a real danger. If it went any slower, or gave an "earlier" audio cue, then it wouldn't be much of a threat at all. I never found it overly difficult to dodge either, honestly - I do kind of agree that more of an indication/leeway should be given for the second Jeptak (i.e. a flat piece of land, a "warning" sign, or something), but other than that, I really thought it was fine.

Shrug. Just figured I'd throw a more detailed explanation out there.
Fair enough- I remember those levels all too well, and even if it was more for introducing new controls, you make a good point.

However, my counterpoint is Kamek in Yoshi's Island. More of a fair warning, not to mention slower, and yet the levels are still fairly difficult. Remember, this is a sprite we're talking about, not control shenanigans. See Kamek's Revenge and King Bowser's Castle, for example.

Also, did you notice how the secret path is wide open, whereas the main path is fairly cramped from the beginning? It's much easier to dodge the jetpak in the former case, because you can make it aim high. Not so in the latter case. On top of that, it's the cramped section and not the wide open one that has two jetpaks. It makes me wonder if the two sections should be switched somewhat, so the main path starts out less cramped and/or the double trouble is saved for the secret path.

And as I said, there are parts like screens 5-6 of level 31 that I like very much- I'd just like to see more of the level in that style. That is, give the player room to move around and have simple enemies and uneven ground play an ancillary role, not low ceilings. Not to mention there's a considerable lack of note blocks when the jetpak arrives- I think those would make more balanced dodging instruments than bounce clouds. Yes, I really do think the level doesn't need those bounce clouds, and that they should be replaced with note blocks...

Edit: Besides, if players manage to jump on the jetpak, there should be something else going on in the background until it returns, no? Some areas feel a bit empty without it, to me at least.

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Pages: « 1 2 »
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - World 7 - 118: Aerotastic Assault - BlueZy

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