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11B: Cumulus Chapel - S.N.N.


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I'll start by addressing some existing comments:

Originally posted by S.N.N.
Yeah, I had two other testers say that this spot was nasty, and I was pretty sure it was too. I'll tweak it.

Shifting the cement block one tile to the left or placing a tiny net right next to the venus trap (and in it's line of fire) might help there. It wasn't that tough for me personally, but I understand why some would call it difficult- it does seem like a bit of work for a single venus trap.

Originally posted by S.N.N.
See, the way I -tried- to set these up was so that they'd immediately shoot out a bolt when you got close. It doesn't seem to want to work though, which is ultimately really frustrating to me.

Actually, they do consistently immediately shoot one out for me. If you're really concerned about it, though, why not have players walk safely over the first one as it shoots one toward an inaccessible spot below?

Originally posted by S.N.N.
I want to do something about this area in general and make it less .. "sloppy", in my opinion. Haven't decided how I'll do that yet though.

The quick and easy fix would be to use those "solid for Mario" blocks in addition to the on/off ones. Keep in mind you can also grab the apringboard before it falls completely, though it's unlikely the first time around.

Originally posted by S.N.N.
Huh? I didn't think it was overly hard to remember. I guess I could reduce it to two.

While I've played most of the Myst series and so remembered the code with ease (;p), I have a feeling that dodging all the obstacles between that area and the computer screen will make it easy to forget. What if you set a flag once players learn the code and then input it automatically once they reach the computer? Just an idea. Also, if for whatever reason players don't get the code the first time around, maybe you should put another pipe by the computer that leads back to that area?

Originally posted by S.N.N.
I sort of put that part there as an "intro" to the planes. I'm one of those people who feels like gimmicks need to be introduced in a moderately safe way just to show what they can do. However, if others don't like this part, I'm more than willing to make it a bit harder.

I thought it was fine. In fact, to make players spend more time with that first one without making it a poor introduction, you could put a block or two in midair to stop some bombs from reaching players, make the ground a bit more bumpy, place a wall or two for Mario to jump over, elongate the ground a bit, etc. Actually, this is more of a general piece of advice for introducing them rather than for the first instance alone.

A note on the fighter jets: at first they're pretty intimidating, but once you realize that as soon as you touch a bomb its timer resets, they become pretty easy to deal with. I wonder if, for instance, you should lock the bombs' timers so Mario has to knock them out of the way quickly.

Edit (also see a couple of additions above): I've played your level a few times now, and maybe it's just that I understand the enemies' "weak points" too well, but I keep on walking away feeling it's too easy. For nearly every sprite setup there's a way to slide-jump past it or just plain jump over it. In addition, the bomb timer reset I mentioned makes those albatross reskins pretty easy once discovered, and I feel like that's a setting you should change. I understand you're trying to introduce enemies and achieve a certain atmosphere at the same time, but I also think you could make the setups a bit more "involved" without going overboard, if that makes sense.

I also have some minor comments:

0-1: Even if it's just a couple of mostly harmless enemies, I wonder if putting something here would alleviate this sense of emptiness I'm getting...or maybe it's just the atmosphere you're going for- I'm not sure.

7-9: Rushing through becomes more of an issue at this point, I'm thinking. Would it make things too hard if you put a couple more things in Mario's way here (object, sprite, whatever)?

A, top: I'm not sure how I feel about having to redo a bit if you fall here, but I admit it's a short trek.

B-C, bottom: It's possible to jump on top of the stormclouds in sequence.

F, bottom: I wonder if you should place a single block or two to keep the boo stream in play longer here.
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I liked the level myself so far. I think the computer code area may benefit from the Throw block shooter from my level. Yes, I do realize you give more than enough blocks for them to hit the planes, but you know just as well as I do, that people can be stupid and will probably waste their blocks just so they can have something to complain about. :P
I Have an updated version of it that I will be submitting soon.
Layout by LDA during C3.
I got all the way to a strange screw/nail ontop of some square wooden blocks, is that all?
Also, whats the a1 e2 c3 about???
Your layout has been removed.
Okay, after some fighting with emulators and ROMs, I got it working.

Now, first thing's first, I absolutely LOVE the music. It definitely fits the level. Well until you get trapped in an infinite loop because you have no idea where you're supposed to go.

This jump is a nightmare moon. The cement block right there could probably be moved a block to the left.

Why did I have to go over the top of the screen to get this?

Not really that important since it's an issue with SMW itself, but there's a plane missing here.

If you grab a shell from earlier in the level, you can knock out all the planes without using a single throw block.

What's the point of this thing?

Overall, the level's not bad at all, but I couldn't get any farther than that last screenshot. Guides would be very helpful here. There's also moderate slowdown in some of the plane portions. You also can't backtrack, which is kind of annoying, but oh well.

It's also possible to farm 1UPs by entering a pipe then going and grabbing the 1UP near the top of the screen.

I probably missed a few things since I couldn't actually get to the end of the level so far.

Did none of you read his post? That is where the demo ends. -_- Although I will admit of doesn't look like a computer screen. As for jumping over the top of the screen comment that too was designed like that as a hidden life, I'm not seeing any issue with it. The original SMW did the same thing with a few of their secrets.

Also I'm surprised no one mentioned this, but there is a jump at the beginning of the first bonus room that leads to the SMW coin where you have to jump over 2 munchers that is almost impossible to pass without getting hit if your big Mario.
Layout by LDA during C3.
I was thinking of bringing that up, but somehow it was easier than it looked for me, so I wasn't sure. Then again, I did have to crouch-jump, so maybe it'd be a better idea to move the ceiling up a tile or two? I mean, yeah, personally I don't really like jumps like that either.
Youtube (Main) | Youtube (Alt) | Bandcamp | DeviantART
Thanks again for the comments. I've been redoing a few parts that have been previously mentioned since I pretty much agree with all of them. There is something I'd like to address though:

Originally posted by AxemJinx
comments regarding picking up the bombs and throwing them away

From the start, I was thinking of using those torpedoes instead (the ones that explode upon hitting a solid object). In this sense, they wouldn't even be able to be moved, and the player would simply have to dodge them. Do you think this would be a more appropriate solution? I was worried that it might get too hard, but with a bit of redesigning, I think it could work.
It's hard to say, but I think it might work so long as you carefully consider things like blast radius and distance between adjacent torpedoes. I always thought figuring out the explosion sprite's hitbox was a little tricky, but as long as you don't make it feel like guesswork (and introduce them with that same sense of restraint), I feel like it should be fine.
Youtube (Main) | Youtube (Alt) | Bandcamp | DeviantART
If the bombs exploded on contact, it would be imposible to not get hit by the continuos explosions/they might kill echother.
Your layout has been removed.
I finished my level tonight (and by "finished", I mean still contains some graphical bugs which you shouldn't bother pointing out).

Cumulus Chapel v1.1

The bugs I'm aware of:

-The background in the first half still sucks. I'll request something or draw something myself for it.
-The parallax in the second half cuts off a couple of the stars in the BG. You can barely notice it, but I am planning to fix it.
-The venus heads are still message boxes. I'll remap them soon so everyone can globally use them.
-Mario's head appears for a brief second on the first giant skull in the chapel area. Should also be an easy fix.
-edit: also, there is a cutoff pillar in the second half. I already fixed that.

As always, I'm looking for any sort of feedback, positive or negative. Please, feel free to try it out!

When I went back with this shell, the first flying thing disappears.

Sort of blind drop if you want the shell really hit the turn block.

The palette of the fireball is a bit glitched.

I came here with spinjumping on the boo row. Was I supposed to?

What if I jumped on the shell?

I heard a yoshi if I hit the goal end roulette(?)

And you don't know how much I LOVE those skulls!
I decided to try out your level, and I thought the concept was very nice, and the plane sprites were used nicely, however, there is some stuff I want to point out:

Sprite memory errors, this happens when you put two thunder clouds nearby, also, maybe you should warn the player about the thunder coming from the grey clouds, they caught me by surprise the first time I tried your level.

It took me forever to guess what I had to do here, maybe you should make it a bit more obvious. Also more sprite memory errors

Sprite memory errors again, the plane is cutoff.

The coin counter palette should be fixed

If I happen to lose Yoshi, I'm forced to die; you should add a reset door or something. Also, it was very hard to get past the last skull without getting hurt.

Also, I didn’t take a picture of this, but the last segment is a bit too bland and easy, maybe you should add some more enemies.
Originally posted by aj6666
sprite memory errors

I'm looking into an appropriate fix for this. It's pretty sporadic, and is usually always because of those lightning bolts. I'll see what I can do.

Originally posted by aj6666
The coin counter palette should be fixed

Ultimately, the status bar is still a WIP (even though it's mostly complete here). I'm going to repoint the colors to the right side of palette A at some point.

Originally posted by aj6666
If I happen to lose Yoshi, I'm forced to die; you should add a reset door or something. Also, it was very hard to get past the last skull without getting hurt.

I don't know how I feel about adding a reset door at all in this area. I intended for most of the difficulty to come from actually KEEPING Yoshi. I'll tweak that area to make it a bit easier though.

Originally posted by aj6666
Also, I didn’t take a picture of this, but the last segment is a bit too bland and easy, maybe you should add some more enemies.

Wasn't really supposed to be anything special - merely, it's the "end" where you climb a bit, lose Yoshi, and end the level.

Anyway, thanks for the comments guys.
ok, what am I suposed to do once I get to the big nail stuck in the floor to move on :(
Your layout has been removed.
Kill the four planes in the room prior to that to set a code. That'll allow you to pass.
uh.. where do I use the code???
Your layout has been removed.
Just press up once you get it (at the computer screen/"nail"). It'll input it automatically.
-Still needs a background in the first area. I don't care what you guys decide to use, though something with stars would be nice.

-The pipe leading out of the room where you get the code leads to a sublevel of 13B.
one word: aesthetics

that's the post. thanks.
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