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126: Frostflow Freezer - Jimmy
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - World 8 - 126: Frostflow Freezer - Jimmy
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Jimmy

World: 8
Exits: 2
Theme: Ice
Music Options: 1, 2, or compose your own.

Briefing: A double-exited ice themed level. Consider creative ice gimmicks to use in this level - frozen blocks? Chilly water? There are plenty of ideas at your disposal.
q

Edit: Holy shit everything is claimed o_o


Screenshot of my level so far. The BG was made by Ladida and I forget who made the tileset, but I think it works well together. The translucent ice is on layer 3 and I coded a gimmick that changes the ice into water and back using an ON/OFF switch. I'd upload a video but youtube doesn't seem to like me very much. >_>
The FG is done by Ripperon-X for your info. You're using it very well I must say and that background is fantastic with it. Only thing is that the translucent ice doesn't look like much except a solid block of color, though I know how tough it is to get transparencies to look right in SMW.
Thanks. The ice is only a solid block of color because it was used on Layer 3 and I didn't add any sort of texture to it because that would require Layer 3 ExGFX and I figured it would be more convenient if I just used a solid color tile from the original Layer 3 GFX. I suppose if it's really that bothersome I can change it.

Also, I thought of a name for the level. How does "Frostflow Freezer" sound?
It's look much better if the ice was a little bit darker.

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Your layout has been removed.

How's this?
Much better, if you ask me. The level looks great overall, the BG and FG are really fitting and I like the ground palette you used. Frostflow Freezer sounds nice as well (I can edit it into the thread title if you want)
Also...layer 3 ground? O_o Wow, that sounds very nice. Keep up the great work!
Originally posted by Hadron
Also...layer 3 ground? O_o

Heh, well the Layer 3 itself doesn't have any interaction or anything like that. I just put a custom block in the same place that the Layer 3 image was. :P
Also I'm glad that you liked the name, sure you can go ahead and edit it into the title. Maybe it'll catch more attention to this thread. :P
Oh, I see it now. That's a pretty creative way to use layer 3 like that, after all (at least I've never seen something like that before).
Also, it seems S.N.N. beat me in editing your level title, whatever.
Originally posted by Jimmy52905
I just put a custom block in the same place that the Layer 3 image was. :P

Having in mind the ON/OFF gimmick idea you talked about earlier, I assume that block would act like water whenever the ON/OFF switch was turned off, right? If not, well, I suppose you have got some work to do then. :P

Anyway, I really like the looks of that level - the BG and FG blend together very nicely, and the gimmick you have in mind there definitely does sound pretty interesting. It seems my opinion on the new Layer 3 image differs slightly from others', though - in the sense that I actually prefer the old one to that one. It just looks more like ice itself to me, whereas the new image kind of gives off more of a chilly water vibe. However, it seems many others actually prefer the new look over the old one, so it's not like you should change it just because of one guy's opinion - don't mind me.

Anyway, great job so far, James. Looking forward to seeing more!
I actually like that screen, Jimmy. I'm surprised that my tileset fits there. One problem I see is that there's a floating upside-down spike in the last screenshot.

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You can download my VLDC12 entry Here - final update
Originally posted by Ripperon-X
One problem I see is that there's a floating upside-down spike in the last screenshot.

Actually I used the falling spike sprite and changed its graphics to look like the spikes in your tileset. It's not floating. :P
Oh, okay. That's a really clever use of it.

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You can download my VLDC12 entry Here - final update
I finally finished the first room of my level: IPS Download

Keep in mind there are still a couple bugs, like the message box sprite priority, but that might be a bug with the actual ROM itself...I think, because I have no idea what in my level may have caused it. Also, ignore the first little hub room, I'll change that later. The two fire flowers at the beginning were just for testing purposes only and will not be in the final version.

So yeah, I look forward to any feedback on this level. I'm mainly concerned with the difficulty level of this. If it's too easy/hard for a World 7 level maybe give me some suggestions on what I can do to change that.
No, I think it's just right for W7 (I say this because the level stumped me the first time I played it but I got it later on).
However there's a very odd glitch when you're at a high point on the level...

Kittens are cute

Other than that, the level was a real brain puzzle that was also fun to play and I hope to see more progress.

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Check out my music!
On the surface, I really enjoyed what's presented so far. I probably would have enjoyed it even more if I realized that jump is possible which would have in turn curbed a lot of useless running back and forth with the snowball and on/off switches. Oh well, that's my own fault. Otherwise, I really loved the puzzle.

As far as difficulty, it's hard to judge since most of it is presented in puzzle form as opposed to typical action-based difficulty. For the most part, I think it's pretty fair for World 7, however, the final underwater section feels far too easy and/or empty compared to the rest of the level. But then, perhaps it's meant to be taken as a bit of a breather between this room and whatever may lay beyond that pipe.

And yes, it seems the area that Moose pointed out is suffering from a rash of oddities. Also, the P-Switch likes to flutter up and down when it's in the water - not sure if that's even avoidable.

Extras



I should have something witty to put here (even if it's just to update dated info), shouldn't I?

Advertising Space


Note the long vertical block to the right of the Koopa. Does something look out of place to you? (Replace the bottom tiles.)



This happened by merely walking over the block while the water was frozen. On that note, I must say that the freezing/unfreezing effect was very well made.


That glitched Blargg tile was the effect of me sliding into the falling spike. Not necessarily your issue since the sprite can be easily Tweaked to disallow sliding kills. Speaking of falling spikes, the level has a few spots where a spike can ambush you because they're off-screen when they fall.


Mario's standing on a slope as if it's a solid tile.


That spike makes the jump more annoying than it needs to be, especially when the spike does not look like it should hurt you from standing on its side. Just request the blocks that hurt only when Mario's touching them from above/below/side and use that instead.

Or just remove that spike altogether.


I don't think this jump is even possible to do without taking a hit, assuming Mario doesn't have a cape.

I stopped there for the night after failing to clear that jump (took me several tries just to make it that far), but I looked at the rest of the level in LM and everything after that is pretty blah. The only hazards in the area are just spikes and nothing else substantial.

Making a multi-tiered level difficult is very ambitious, to say the least, and you aren't doing yourself any favors with the design choices you've made. Allowing players to slide on ice as they would on slopes gives them too much power and likely removes any challenge the level would otherwise have when the water's frozen. Sliding = invincibility, just about (think about that 'just about' part). I would remove that mechanic completely unless you can demonstrate that the level can nonetheless be challenging.

When I say 'challenging,' I don't mean spike overusage. Relying mostly on spikes will make the difficulty oscillate between extremely boring, like pretty much every underwater spot in this level is, or extremely annoying (not difficult!), like the ridiculously narrow spike jumps later in the level are. Definitely rely less on them.

What enemies do you use with the spikes? Some koopas, spinies, spike tops, and small ice bars- mostly harmless, especially in the way you use them. The sprite layout is essentially no better than Gramen Terra with the occasional low ceiling. Think about it- this level's full of areas where you just jump, jump, jump out of the water, slide, slide, slide on the ice, or swim, swim, swim past spikes. There's really nothing exciting about it to me. There are also spots where the water is only one tile deep, which potentially discriminates against small Mario...

What's up with the ice behavior, anyway? I can believe that spikes sink one tile into the ice, but shells and other enemies...? On top of that, judging by the fish you would think only the top of the water is frozen, but judging by the visual transformation, all of it turns to ice...so which is it?

There's also quite a bit of backtracking, unnecessary item traveling, spike airstrikes, arbitrary p-quarters...not to mention you don't need the p-switch or the snowball thanks to the spike top and jumping fish, respectively. As harsh as it sounds, I think you should redesign the level completely, with all of the above (including others' comments) in mind. Use less tiers, don't put falling spikes where players can't see them, don't allow sliding on the ice, have more meaningful sprite setups rather than spike overabundance, and use less backtracking.

Oh, and make the breakable blocks more intuitive (i.e. introduce them better). I had no idea how exactly they were going to work the first time around, and- whoops!- just lost my chance at getting that smwcoin. Oh well!

But yeah, the only thing I even remotely enjoyed was the snowball puzzle, which wasn't much of a puzzle anyway, in my opinion.

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Youtube (Main) | Youtube (Alt) | Bandcamp | DeviantART
Wow...guess I have a lot of work to do.

Originally posted by AxemJinx
Making a multi-tiered level difficult is very ambitious, to say the least, and you aren't doing yourself any favors with the design choices you've made. Allowing players to slide on ice as they would on slopes gives them too much power and likely removes any challenge the level would otherwise have when the water's frozen. Sliding = invincibility, just about (think about that 'just about' part). I would remove that mechanic completely unless you can demonstrate that the level can nonetheless be challenging.


I completely see what you mean about the sliding. I thought it would be a neat mechanic but I suppose you're right about it removing much of the challenge. However, maybe I could make it so that sliding only works when you are big, almost like a small reward for making it into the level as big Mario, while as small Mario it would end up being more difficult.

Originally posted by AxemJinx
When I say 'challenging,' I don't mean spike overusage. Relying mostly on spikes will make the difficulty oscillate between extremely boring, like pretty much every underwater spot in this level is, or extremely annoying (not difficult!), like the ridiculously narrow spike jumps later in the level are. Definitely rely less on them.


Sprite placement has never really been my strong point, to be honest. I suppose that may be why I ended up relying on things like spike usage as sort of a pseudo-challenge to make up for my lack of enemy placement. I suppose I should try and change that about my level. However, the reason I used mostly spikes instead of other enemies in the underwater part was because otherwise the sprites in the water part plus the sprites above the water would end up causing quite a bit of slowdown. Then again, I suppose I could just write some levelASM that will prevent the sprites in the water from loading while you're above, and vice versa. I'll see what I can do.

Originally posted by AxemJinx
What's up with the ice behavior, anyway? I can believe that spikes sink one tile into the ice, but shells and other enemies...? On top of that, judging by the fish you would think only the top of the water is frozen, but judging by the visual transformation, all of it turns to ice...so which is it?


Eh, that was a mistake on my part due to the way I coded it. I just checked for any sprite below a certain Y position and freeze it's X and Y velocity when it reaches that coordinate. Perhaps I could do a check for sprite status as well to prevent dead koopas and shells from freezing as well. As for the fish, however... I'm not quite sure why they continue to move back and forth even when the water is frozen. I suppose freezing horiztonal movement didn't quite work for that specific sprite... I'll try my best to figure out a way to fix that.

Originally posted by AxemJinx
There's also quite a bit of backtracking, unnecessary item traveling, spike airstrikes, arbitrary p-quarters...not to mention you don't need the p-switch or the snowball thanks to the spike top and jumping fish, respectively. As harsh as it sounds, I think you should redesign the level completely, with all of the above (including others' comments) in mind. Use less tiers, don't put falling spikes where players can't see them, don't allow sliding on the ice, have more meaningful sprite setups rather than spike overabundance, and use less backtracking.


Heh yeah I think the hidden falling spikes was a bit of a dickish move. XD I should probably remove those or make them more visible to the player. I'll also be sure to remove the spike top and the jumping fish so the player can't skip ahead without the snowball. You're right though, the P-switch isn't necessarily needed for completing the level. I don't know if you noticed or not but there was a section blocked off by used blocks and through that section you can obtain a 1up if you bring the P-switch back with you. Now that I think about it though it does seem a bit unnecessary to make the player go through all that work just to get a 1up. Maybe I'll make it a moon instead.

Originally posted by AxemJinx
Oh, and make the breakable blocks more intuitive (i.e. introduce them better). I had no idea how exactly they were going to work the first time around, and- whoops!- just lost my chance at getting that smwcoin. Oh well!


I'll probably include an explanation for that in the message talking about the sliding on ice.

Originally posted by Moose
Kittens are cute


FFFFF I actually didn't notice that. Oh well, shouldn't be to hard to fix. Thanks for pointing that out.

Anyways thanks for the critism everyone. I'll be sure to take it into consideration. :)
Pages: « 1 2 3 »
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - World 8 - 126: Frostflow Freezer - Jimmy

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