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12C: Incineration Station - yoshicookiezeus
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - World 9 - 12C: Incineration Station - yoshicookiezeus
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Claimed by: yoshicookiezeus

World: 9
Exits: 1
Theme: Factory
Music Options: 1, 2, 3, or compose your own.

Briefing: The main entrance to Norveg's factory. Consider all kinds of mechanized traps and tricks as a defense to this industrial headquarters.
hi~

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Get the official ASMT resource pack here!

Well then. Now that things have calmed down a bit, I might as well explain what I had in mind for this level.

Incineration Station

The level starts out in a fairly plain hallway, just inside the main entrance to the factory. After traversing said hallway (it shouldn't be too long, or have too tricky platforming, though I'll probably use my Elite Koopas to make it at least a bit difficult), Mario finds out that Norveg is a bit smarter than Bowser when it comes to security issues: the way onward is blocked by a giant door that just won't open. However, there is a chute leading to a garbage incinerator nearby, and Mario decides to fall down it to see if he can get inside the main factory that way.

After falling down the chute, the main part of the level begins: Furnace #4. What I have in mind for this is basically making a level where you can't stand still anywhere: the bottom of the level will be all fire, and most of the platforms will be of the moving kind, with spikes and flamethrowers around to guard the ones that aren't. Perhaps I'll even see if I can do something with the Layer 3 Smash sprite to have smashers that only activate when you stand on certain platforms?

Seems like my main problem with this level is making sure that I don't accidentally crank the difficulty up way too high...

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Sounds like an idea I had in the ideas thread, though the addition of garbage smashers adds an interesting twist to it all. If you could work in the layer 3 smashers and redraw them to look like giant pistons, that would be really neat. If that doesn't work, maybe you can request some sprites that act similar to Thwomps in that they smash down when you get near, but look like pistons. Hell, with clever enough graphics, you might even be able to make the Thwomps be the smashers.

Looking forward to seeing where you go with this YCZ. Your levels are always interesting!

Edit: Oh by the way, your level title actually exceeds the character limit for SMW by one character. This isn't an issue if we overwrite the ILLUSIYELLOW tiles but if we don't, either we need to patch longer names or you need to shorten the name.
Originally posted by FirePhoenix
Hell, with clever enough graphics, you might even be able to make the Thwomps be the smashers.

You know, this gave me an idea. What if I took the Thwomp disassembly and made it spawn solid tiles as it falls/remove them as it rises, like the mushroom platforms? As long as the graphics for said solid tiles had translational symmetry, that would be a good way to create tiny smashers, would it not?

And yes, I realized that my level name was a tiny bit too long some while after posting it. I'm hoping to be allowed to use three of the ILLUSIYELLOW tiles to be able to make it fit.

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I think that would be a fantastic idea, I forgot that the mushroom scales were capable of doing that. If you can do that it would be such a cool looking effect.
Just be careful not to make the plain hallway too plain. Even with a sparse set of platforms and a few elite koopas, you can make things interesting, so I don't think you'll have a problem.

As for the main part of the level, you obviously have a lot of elements to work with, so don't get caught up in exploring every possible combination. Curve the difficulty slightly so the player has some time to adjust, and make the sections feel "new" every several screens, like Norveg is ingeniously pulling out all the stops to prevent entry.

I really like the idea, so I'm looking forward to seeing how it develops.

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My thread's on the second page? We can't have that, now can we?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysyji9yq1ek

Made a few changes to the Elite Koopas as per the suggestions I got earlier; the video description has more detail on that. Also, here is an IPS with the level shown in the video. Feel free to play around with the sprites; it'd probably be easier for you to come up with suggestions for how to improve them if you can actually experience them yourself, wouldn't it? I'd also be happy if you report any bugs you found.

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My YouTube channel
Get the official ASMT resource pack here!

You know, I'd be really grateful if you made these enemies publicly available at some point. They look like they work so well in tandem...

The only thing I don't like is that they have around 5 HP, but they pause as soon as you bounce on them, so as you do in the video, you can just bounce on them in place until they die. That seems kind of pointless- why not just kill them in one hit? You can compensate by making them a bit tougher if you think that would be necessary. For example, increase the speed of the green one, decrease the pause between volleys for the red one, have less warning bounces for the yellow one, and maybe have no pause time for the blue one.

Alternately, have them continue moving when struck, but only give them 2-3 HP. I don't think players should have to stop what they're doing to engage in duels with regular enemies, you know? Besides, I imagine these will be used in combination (and they should be), and if every koopa has 5 HP...eh.

By the way, I think the yellow one should toss fireballs a bit to the sides (like a sprinkler, almost), not just drop them straight down. It would be interesting if it also had Yellow Yoshi's stomp ability, so you can't be next to it when it lands or you'll get hit. You might want to widen the jump arc and increase the jump height a little, too, but I'm not sure. You could even make the jumps target a little past Mario's current position, so it's guaranteed to vault Mario and toss fireballs in his vicinity.

Some other possibilities:
-Increase walking speed across the board
-Give the green one wings and make it bounce repeatedly in arcs at high speed (in shell form), like some DKC bosses have done. In its current form, the green one is as easy as a kicked shell.
-Make the red one accurately target even small/ducking Mario- otherwise it's easily exploited (or does it do this already? It does, doesn't it >_<).

If I think of anything else, I'll let you know :p

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Youtube (Main) | Youtube (Alt) | Bandcamp | DeviantART
I'd like to add that if you do keep multiple HP, I think they should use a different sound effect when you hit them (maybe the same one as when you kill them?)-- the current sound effect is the same one used by the invincible flashing shells, which I think will lead players to conclude that they're invincible to normal jumps.

Alternately, how about this extension of AxemJinx's 1HP idea-- make it so you can stun them with one hit, but they go into their shell instead of being actually killed (Buzzy Beetle style)? (Of course, then you could use them to kill each other... not sure if that's what you want.)

By the way, what happens if you attack them with spin-jumps or fireballs?

–=–=–=–=–=–=–
Alyssa's Unlikely Trap - Zeldara's Glitch City
You never fail to impress me yoshicookiezeus...

Also, I like the new attack for the blue koopa, its a lot more fitting. (Wait was it the blue or yellow shells that make yoshi stomp? I forget now...oh well, if it ain't broke, don't fix it...)

Can't wait to see your progress on this!

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Eh, sure. Why not? Kaizo hacking doesn't seem too ha-aaaaaaand I broke the ROM.
Apologies for the lack of activity in this thread lately. Now that I have three weeks without any lectures, I really need to stop procrastinating on everything and get the actual level started...

Anyway, the concept of giving the Elite Koopas three HP was supposed to be kind of the same as with Charging Chuck: on its own you can kill it fairly easily once you've gotten the first strike in, but with other hazards around it can get rather more difficult to get rid of - for a (perhaps somewhat extreme) example, try doing the quick-kill trick on one of the Koopas in the group of four near the end of the test level I posted. Of course, putting all four together like that is probably a bit too close to overkill to actually be in the level, but I still imagine the red one in particular being pretty good at providing cover fire to prevent others from getting killed off too quickly. I should probably increase the invincibility timer a slight bit, though.

As for making the sprite play a different sound effect when hurt as opposed to when you bounce off its shell uselessly; it's an excellent idea and I'll implement it straight away. Not sure why I didn't do that in the first place...

Lastly, while I'll most likely not release the Elite Koopas in their present state (I can only imagine how overused those things would be...), I will most likely release the template I coded to base them off of. With a bit of ASM knowledge, adding in your own attack routine isn't that hard (well, I guess it depends on what you want the sprite to do), and the graphics routine is easily adaptable by just changing the various tables.

--------------------
My YouTube channel
Get the official ASMT resource pack here!

Those are some excellent sprites you have there!

My suggestion would be to keep the Red and Parakoopas to a minimum, especially in a level full of spikes and flamethrowers.

Now, since I don't use custom sprites all too often, do we have a flamethrower sprite? If not, what could work for your level is a sprite that rises out of lava and generates the same vertical flame as the Dino Torch. You could even have some positioned on the ceiling and walls and make them behave similarly to the SMB3 Airship flamethrowers.

Have you considered using Layer 3 to simulate bits of trash/garbage billowing around the furnace?
If you don't want to release the elite koopas, you should put them on the base ROM to allow other level designers to use them, I think it would be nice to have them in several levels, since them seem to be complex sprites with many uses. It's your choise thoight.

About the level, I like kadyastar's sugestion, allthough I think we don't have a flametrower sprite, but you could use the 16th frame kill block. I guess you should also use layer 2 rising and downgoing lava for this level, it would give your level a nice touch
Originally posted by Kadyastar
Those are some excellent sprites you have there!

Why, thank you. :D

Originally posted by Kadyastar
My suggestion would be to keep the Red and Parakoopas to a minimum, especially in a level full of spikes and flamethrowers.

As a matter of fact, the Elite Koopas most likely won't be used in the furnace area at all; just in the entrance hallway. I find that more complex sprites tend to work better with simpler environments, and the furnace should be busy enough without them.

Originally posted by Kadyastar
Now, since I don't use custom sprites all too often, do we have a flamethrower sprite? If not, what could work for your level is a sprite that rises out of lava and generates the same vertical flame as the Dino Torch. You could even have some positioned on the ceiling and walls and make them behave similarly to the SMB3 Airship flamethrowers.

I don't think there is a flamethrower in the sprites section, but I don't think it would be that hard to code.

Originally posted by Kadyastar
Have you considered using Layer 3 to simulate bits of trash/garbage billowing around the furnace?

It's a good idea, but I think cluster sprites would work better, especially since I might use a variation on the Layer 3 Smash sprite in the level.

Originally posted by aj6666
If you don't want to release the elite koopas, you should put them on the base ROM to allow other level designers to use them, I think it would be nice to have them in several levels, since them seem to be complex sprites with many uses. It's your choise thoight.

As a matter of fact, I was already planning on doing that. :V

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Get the official ASMT resource pack here!

Originally posted by yoshicookiezeus
Lastly, while I'll most likely not release the Elite Koopas in their present state (I can only imagine how overused those things would be...), I will most likely release the template I coded to base them off of.


You'll have to forgive me, but that seems like a strange reason to withhold them. It's your choice, though! ;p

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It's weird until you realize YCZ made the Homing Thwomp, the most overused boss in the history of SMW custom bosses. Even Japanese hacks use it.
YCZ is like the Lady Gaga of spriting--he produces some really cool material that gets quickly overused.

Now, this is a really weird suggestion, but I may as well give it a shot. Have you considered using updraft/downdraft blocks and a bit of animation to create spewing smoke? It is an incineration station, and having an obstacle that pushes Mario rather than outright hurting him might add to the level.
Gonna jump in with a few comments:
Originally posted by yoshicookiezeus
Incineration Station

You just got to place a sign in your level that says Incinestation Ration

Anyways, I love your A2MT level and it's quite obvious that the factory theme fits your level style like hand in glove. In this project I'd love to see amazing graphics and (possibly) a few level secrets (like the sign mentioned above :P ). I do think you'll have to make something slightly easier than your A2MT level, and I guess that might become hard. But we'll just have to wait and see how that goes.

When it comes to sprites, well, it would be nice to see different platform sprites. Platforms that rises to the top once you stand on them (blocks previous area (but might also crush you against the ceiling)) and platforms that goes forever (that might crush you from above) would be really nice to see (if used in a good way).
It would also be cool to see different ambiance sprites which have one time animation (basically, leaving the screen and coming back won't reset them). Stuff like falling spikes, but possibly chunks of the level. A place filled with traps don't have to be maintained that well ;) (I don't even know if anyone would dare to maintain a place like that, considering it's filled with traps.)
Your ideas seem stimulating so far YCZ. I like the idea of your level's layout. About releasing your sprites, go ahead if you want to, but I might not use them. After I got those Koopa Elites from SMWY, I hardly even use them, hardly, but not never. I am only looking forward to your level.

The furnace area takes most of my interest though. It makes me wonder, "what will this look like?" and "busy? How? I need to know."

These questions come up b/c of the furnace we have planned in the crater, and maybe some inspiration can come your ideas I hope?

And that thwomp, it's so strange, one time, I was making a level before I signed onto this site, and thought, "How cool would it be if the thwomps would make tiles over it?" I hope to see this realized and not some Layer 2 thing. Though, Layer 3 would be impressive, but very limited unless there's something I am not catching here.

EDIT: BTW, I would like to test your level when it's done!

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Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - World 9 - 12C: Incineration Station - yoshicookiezeus

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