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12C: Incineration Station - yoshicookiezeus
Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - World 9 - 12C: Incineration Station - yoshicookiezeus
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Finally done with my exams for this term, so I'll be getting back to working on this as soon as possible. If all goes well and I don't get hit by a sudden inspiration drought, I'll have a new version with the second part finished up by this weekend.

Also I'll post more detailed responses to the criticism I've gotten, but that will have to wait for a time when I'm not half asleep (i.e. tomorrow).

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My YouTube channel
Get the official ASMT resource pack here!

Incineration Station v0.3

Changelog:
- Moved the first powerup to the very beginning of the level
- Placed the first Elite Koopa on the ground, with solid blocks on both sides, so that you can observe its behaviour before taking it on
- Raised ceiling and removed an annoying shelless Koopa from the part with the second yellow Elite
- Changed the area with the first blue Elite, to make it less claustrophobic and lessen the chance of it despawning
- Removed one blue Elite and moved the other in the area right after that
- Completely revamped the side room with the SMWC coin
- Finished a first version of the second room

Re: Elite Koopas having three hits
Something I liked a lot about the original sprites in SMW YEAH! was that there were a lot of ways to handle them: you could either take your time and kill them all, plan out your moves in advance to make sure you have a shell for the trickier sections, or just throw caution and patience to the wind and run past them. This is what I have been trying to replicate with my versions of the sprites, and from my testing it seems like all three approaches still work; it's very possible to get through the level without killing a single one of them.

Re: Red Elite Koopas being overpowered
Personally, I find that these guys really aren't all that bad with the correct strategy: if it's on the same level as you, wait for it to fire a couple of shots and then jump over it, and if it's above or below you, just keep moving in one direction (speed doesn't matter) and it will miss. Then again, I guess my experience with the Touhou games has given me some kind of reflexes when it comes to dealing with aimed bullets :V

Re: Slowdown
When I was still using my ASM test ROM with the fastROM patch applied, the entire level ran at full FPS without any problems. I assume that the same is going to hold true with the base ROM once the patch is in place.

Re: No layer priority in the second part
That's actually an issue with the original game; layer priority doesn't work in vertical levels. I have requested that this is fixed.

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My YouTube channel
Get the official ASMT resource pack here!

Only one thing I made an screenshot from.


Was that line (top left, right from the diagram) intended? It looks pretty much as cutoff.

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No, it wasn't. There used to be a window there; seems like I forgot to remove one of the edges.

Any comment on the actual level design? I'm particularly curious to hear what people think about the new room for the first SMWC coin, and the "puzzle" in the falling segment.

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My YouTube channel
Get the official ASMT resource pack here!

The room is somewhat harder... I like it. It could use a bit more decoration (like those screens in the main level)

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Where is the ips?
I would like to see the new level!

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Originally posted by yoshicookiezeus

At the top of the giant post.

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Originally posted by Bloop
Originally posted by yoshicookiezeus

At the top of the giant post.

LOL didnt notice it.

Well, the first area is better, and the second one is INCREDIBLY better!
In dificulty, the first part is a tad bit easier, and the second area has more of a chalenge.
Theres a glitch thought, the smwc coin with the blue koopa, I jumped on it over 5 times and hit it with 7 fireballs or more before it died.Also, that happened when it went off screen and back, NOT WHEN IT RESPAWNED(under the smwc coin).This only happened once, and I havent managed to recreate it '-_-

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Well, I took up your challenge YCZ and decided to do this level without killing any Elite Koopas.


Having played the 0.2 version of your level, I was already familiar with much of the layout, so that kind of worked in my favor here and probably made this easier as opposed to doing this blind (where I died many times primarily due to that one segment everyone else has pointed out)

-Having a Mushroom available earlier worked out a lot better than having to clear a bunch of enemies to get it a bit further in. I didn't check if you left the other mushroom there, as I was too busy running.

-Speaking of running, I've found the best way to deal with Red Elite Koopas, if you don't have a shell to kill them with, is to just run like hell. Keep running, and don't stop moving until you can't see them. You will pretty much always avoid the barrage of fireballs so long as you can keep moving.

-Removing the shelless Koopas in the "snaking passage" was a good call, as this was where I died most of the time, simply because I'd try to wait for a good moment to jump up the ledges (without getting hit by the shelless) but then I'd get shot by the Red Elite.

All in all, the level is still challenging due to all the stuff that can kill you here, but that was to be expected of a World 8 level, and I don't see any reason for that to change so long as I can clear this legit.

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My Let's Play channel (Current LP: Final Fantasy VI, MegaMari)
I really have nothing to complain about regarding the level itself. Removing that one shell-less Koopa was a dramatic help without really deterring from the overall difficulty of the level. It still feels just as hard, yet still completely doable.

Personally, I like the different approaches regarding defeating the Elite Koopas. Sure, most of their difficult is removed when all you have to do is toss a shell at them, but overall, shells do seem to be at a premium in this level and there's plenty of chances to waste your ammo if you're not careful. As is, I don't really see it as an imbalance - the trade off for using shells to defeat the Elites is that you do have to take your time and plan out your moves, as YCZ said. Of course, taking it slow isn't for everyone, and they're just as manageable by powering through and temporarily knocking them out of commission by stomping them.

As far as the revamped SMWC coin room - I've come to a decision that I just flat out suck at getting the blue Elites to follow me. However, something to consider: because the area is now a bit longer than the original design, I found it much more probable that I was going to accidentally score three stomps and kill the Elite before I had the chance to get him all the way to the end of the room - especially with the On/Off bit. I actually fell victim to this scenario more often than losing him to off-screen despawning this time around - though despawning was still a problem. I think some sort of medium between your first design and your present design needs to be created maybe? Or an alternate possibility is to make a small room - the idea is to steer the Elite around just one or two walls - for the first SMWC coin and then maybe reprise the idea for the third coin using a larger room. This way, the player is given a chance to learn the basics of maneuvering the blue Elite through a simple course and then forced to drive it through a more complex course later on. Just an idea.

I managed to get myself trapped a couple of times in the side corridors during the second area because of the springboard. I unfortunately tossed it squarely in the center of the pipe so I couldn't land back beside it. Duck jumping back out was a bit of annoyance, but nothing to really worry about. Otherwise, seeing how easy it was to get the second SMWC coin further raised my frustration over the difficulty of getting the first one. But overall, I have no complaints about the second area - I take it it's just a cool down section before the death and destruction that lies ahead in the third area.
I guess I was too caught up in my own strategies to notice the ingenuity of the sprite design.

In any case, I liked the first side room A LOT better than this one, as it was more focused and to-the point, and had more interesting wall/platform arrangements (from what I remember).

For the second area, it's hard to anticipate where to go while dropping, because the camera scrolls pretty late. I wonder how many people will get that smwcoin on the first try? If they don't, you're basically forcing them to either play through the first section again or game the system by intentionally dying.

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Youtube (Main) | Youtube (Alt) | Bandcamp | DeviantART
Originally posted by Milk
However, something to consider: because the area is now a bit longer than the original design, I found it much more probable that I was going to accidentally score three stomps and kill the Elite before I had the chance to get him all the way to the end of the room - especially with the On/Off bit.

Hmm... Has anyone else had trouble with this? I never thought avoiding the blue Koopa was that hard during my testing runs, though then again I might be somewhat biased in the matter.

Originally posted by Milk
I managed to get myself trapped a couple of times in the side corridors during the second area because of the springboard.

But you didn't actually manage to get yourself permanently stuck? Good. I keep being kind of worried about that; I never actually managed to get myself stuck like that during my testing, despite actively trying to, but I never really manage to convince myself that it wasn't physically possible to do (which I really hope it is, since otherwise I would pretty much have to redesign that entire section to make all the pipes wider).

Originally posted by AxemJinx
For the second area, it's hard to anticipate where to go while dropping, because the camera scrolls pretty late. I wonder how many people will get that smwcoin on the first try? If they don't, you're basically forcing them to either play through the first section again or game the system by intentionally dying.

Well, if all turns out as it should, the last part of the level should be hard enough that the majority of players aren't going to finish it on their first attempt anyway. :V


In other news, I just finished coding the last sprite I need for my level (a spawner that periodically drops various pieces of garbage straight down), so once the next base ROM is out I can start working on the actual incinerator section. :D

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My YouTube channel
Get the official ASMT resource pack here!

Finally got the last section of my level started. I don't really have enough progress to post a new IPS yet (and I probably won't have until the next base ROM, since a bug in one of my sprites is causing other sprites to not spawn properly), so in the meantime, have some screenshots:











The pipes in the ceiling periodically drop pieces of trash on Mario, and the flamethrowers are your basic animated hurt blocks; I made sure that the "appearing" frame doesn't hurt Mario, since it doesn't really match the hitbox of the block. Oh, and please don't mind the sprite garbage; I just haven't gotten around to fixing it yet.

EDIT: Also, note that the lack of enemies is entirely intentional; this room will be pretty much devoid of them. People weren't intended to ever go down into the incinerator itself, after all (apart from maintenance and such, I guess; perhaps that's why all the platforms are there?)

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My YouTube channel
Get the official ASMT resource pack here!

It definitely looks like a blazing furnace, and the trash dispensers are a neat touch. I guess refraining from using enemies fits the location, but just make sure the environmental obstacles don't wear out their welcome on their own.

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Extras



I should have something witty to put here (even if it's just to update dated info), shouldn't I?

Advertising Space

Agreed with Axem, I can't really add on anything to what he said ATM. But for the incineration section, have you considered adding a wavy HDMA to the background?

You could always add fire enemys, like hopping flames, hot heads, fire bars, or some new enemy.

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Originally posted by xlk
You could always add fire enemys, like hopping flames, hot heads, fire bars, or some new enemy.


I dont think Hopping flames would be good in thsi level due to the ammount of holes and gaps, they would just fall in and being no threat whats so ever.

Anyway I love the idea of the level YKZ, It just looks like a furnace would do...in the mario world. :P
Incineration Station v0.9

Stuff I'm aware I have to do before the level is completely finished:
- Fix up the sprite graphics for the incinerator part
- Add decoration to the first side room and goal area

As always, I'm very thankful for comments on the difficulty; I was able to beat the incinerator part twice in the ten or so times I tested the finished version of it savestateless, which seems like a rather reasonable success rate for a world 8 level, but I'm curious to see what people who don't know exactly how everything is placed react to it. Also: yes, there are three SMWC coins in the level.

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My YouTube channel
Get the official ASMT resource pack here!

I feel (except the known glitched graphics) there's nothing wrong with your level. I love it.

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Echoing Bloop. You've done a very good job with this level. It's difficult, but after about 3-4 tries, I managed to get through it savestateless. That incinerator part is indeed tricky, and a couple of spots in the P-Balloon part seem like they could be a bit questionable, but I'll leave that up to anyone else who tests it to decide. I have a small complaint:



This room is much easier now than when I played it the first time, but this part seems very difficult for some reason. I'm thinking it's because the two platforms really throw the Koopa's bouncing pattern off, and he seems to get "stuck" quite a bit. It might be wise to move these platforms, or even see if you can even get rid of one.

Other than that, I have no major complaints. Very fun level overall, and once you have the sprite GFX + any other issues fixed, feel free to send me it.
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Forum Index - Events - Super Mario World Central Production 2 Completion Project - World 9 - 12C: Incineration Station - yoshicookiezeus

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